Topic: Trying to get up to speed before Coachella

[micktravis]

I'll risk posting here because I'm covering a few topics.  I've been lurking for a while and want to make sure I understand what's what before Coachella this year, where I plan to do a lot of taping.

I currently have a Microtrack (the old one) and a pair of CSBs with the switchable bass rolloff filter on the battery box.  I also have a -11db and a -20 db attenuator cable, also from CS.  I'm open to new mics but want to try to work with the MT.

I've experimented at a few small venue shows and, so far, have had levels problems - either distortion or too low.  But the whole line/mic thing was unclear in the MT docs and I think I may have figured it out.   And now - the questions.  Apologies in advance if it becomes clear I don't know what I'm talking about.

1.  Does a battery box serve the same purpose as a preamp, minus the ability to adjust the input level?  From what I've read here it appears that using a battery box allows for recording much louder shows without distortion.  Is this true?  How does a battery boxed mic differ from a mic running on phantom power?  Does it simply replace the optional phantom power usually drawn from the recorder's internal batteries?  (I know about the 30V phantom power the MT offers, but I'm just curious if I understand all this.)

2.  Does using an attenuator cable to lower input levels affect overall sound quality?  From experiments it appears both the cables from Len reduce the high end more than I would like.  Do attenuator cables have any impact on battery boxed mics, like I have? 

3.  Is it best, given the mics I have, to do my best to have them pointing away from the stage, maybe perpendicular, like the human ear? 

4.  Is converting from 1/8" stereo to 2 1/4" TRS connectors as simple as it appears?  I have some adaptors lying around, and a splitter that takes 1/8" stereo and converts to 2 1/8" mono.  Is this the right track?  It seems I would just end up with 2 1/4" stereos, though.  How does the whole TRS thing play into this?  I ask because apparently the MT's 1/8" inputs add a significant boost, whereas the 1/4" TRS inputs do not.

5.  Any opinions on the following setup for coachella?

CSBs > Battery box > some kind of conversion to 2 x 1/4" TRS > Microtrack (with the possibility of snapping an attenuator cable into the mix somewhere if necessary.

6.  Or should I just go for a new set of mics and try a preamp?  I read good things about Church audio's stuff here.  Would going this route eliminate any levels issues I'm currently having?

Thanks

[evilchris]

I'd run line-in on the MT with no att. cable.  Watch your level meters and adjust accordingly.

I don't know much about CSBs, but they can definitely pull a decent tape.  Coachella is stealth-only, IIRC, so you'll have to go that route.

[micktravis]

I'd run line-in on the MT with no att. cable.  Watch your level meters and adjust accordingly.

Thanks.  I'm assuming you're suggesting the 1/4" lines-in, which seems to be the consensus.

As far as Coachella being stealth-only, I had figured that was the case.  But the size of the crowds and the fact that everyone has backpacks and other necessities will help, I think.  I've actually spent as much time reading up and experimenting as I have figuring out how to make everything invisible.  I think I have a pretty bulletproof set of solutions, which I won't go into here. 

(Is it just me or were stealth tactics openly discussed here not too long ago?)

[manitouman]

Batt box just powers your CSB's. If it's the one that came with the mics. You want the phantom power OFF, when running the CSB's with the batt box.

I've never used the attenuator cable with the MT and CSB's. I used it when I was running a Mini-disc recorder but even then didn't like the results.

I've usually mounted mics onto the bill of a hat and pointed at the stage. I can PM you a pick of what I mean if you like. Just PM me.

You CAN run line in with the 1/8" plug the CSB's have. You DON'T have to necessarily convert to 2-1/4" plugs. Just switch to "L" on the side and you'll be fine.

Your rig should be fine. I still use the old MT but have gotten rid of the CSB's. From these boards I've learned the difference between caps and what they do. CSB's are omni-directional caps and will record sound from all around the cap. Cardioid caps are more directional. Meaning they record what you point them at. I've switched to an open taping rig and invested my money in that. But when a show requires stealth, I purchased the Church Audio ST-11 microphones and the 9100 preamp. The mics have removable capsules that appealed to me because certain caps are for certain applications. Omni's have pulled some outstanding recordings from outdoor venues for me. But they don't work as well in a small/indoor venue (unless your really close to the speakers). The cardioid caps have worked really good for me in a smaller indoor venue. For the money, Church's stuff is great, and compact. I believe he has another model of mics, but it is a fixed cap.

Hope that helps!

[carbine000]

Hey, I will be taping at Coachella too. I just got an Iriver to replace my MD setup. The MD is so needy with batteries and switching tapes.

1.  Does a battery box serve the same purpose as a preamp, minus the ability to adjust the input level?  From what I've read here it appears that using a battery box allows for recording much louder shows without distortion.  Is this true?  How does a battery boxed mic differ from a mic running on phantom power?  Does it simply replace the optional phantom power usually drawn from the recorder's internal batteries?  (I know about the 30V phantom power the MT offers, but I'm just curious if I understand all this.)

The battery box is much like a preamp. It allows your mic's to handle a higher SPL (which if you are in the Sahara Tent or near any of the stacks your mic's will be distorting most likely).

The other questions I dont think I can answer.

But, I can say I do have Church Audio cardioids and a preamp and they are definitely worth it. And, I know he is always super backed up so if you are thinking about getting church audio equipment you better order it like today if you even want to entertain the idea of getting your stuff before coachella (although I think you are quickly reaching the point of no return where you wont get your stuff in time if you do order it).

Coachella is sort of stealth but not really. I think the main concern is getting your gear through security and after that you should have no problems. I wont hesitate to take out and adjust my gear as required during the day. Nobody is going to say anything.

[dactylus]

Hello,

Would one of you Coachella tapers please, please, please, please cover the Love & Rockets performance?

Thanks!!

[micktravis]

The battery box is much like a preamp. It allows your mic's to handle a higher SPL (which if you are in the Sahara Tent or near any of the stacks your mic's will be distorting most likely).

I've been experimenting by wandering into a club that's just around the corner from my place.  It plays mind numbingly loud HipHop, so I've gotten the whole rig on and tried a few things out.  The first thing I've confirmed is that using the 1/4" inputs allows FAR greater headroom - I was hard pressed to clip at all, and certainly with an 11db attenuator there were no problems.  I'll bring a 20db to Coachella just in case.  But I don't think distortion will be an issue now that I've figured out I have to use the 1/4" inputs.

But, I can say I do have Church Audio cardioids and a preamp and they are definitely worth it. And, I know he is always super backed up so if you are thinking about getting church audio equipment you better order it like today if you even want to entertain the idea of getting your stuff before coachella (although I think you are quickly reaching the point of no return where you wont get your stuff in time if you do order it).

Thanks.  I think I'm going to go with my existing gear and hope for the best.  I'll be recording everything at 24/96, which also seems to provide at least a little more head (or floor) room. 

I'll see what I can do about Love and Rockets.  Depends on the sched., but if I'm not in another tent I'll tape it.

[dactylus]

The battery box is much like a preamp. It allows your mic's to handle a higher SPL (which if you are in the Sahara Tent or near any of the stacks your mic's will be distorting most likely).

I'll see what I can do about Love and Rockets.   Depends on the sched., but if I'm not in another tent I'll tape it.
[/quote]

Thank you for Love & Rockets if you can swing it.  They put on a GREAT show in the past times that I've seen them.  Sadly that was before my taping days!

+T

 

[carbine000]

I'm going to assume that there will be plenty of people taping roger waters so I think I will bail early for Justice.

There are so many conflicts for me this year its going to be hard to decide what to tape and what not to tape.

[hypnotoad]

I'm going to assume that there will be plenty of people taping roger waters so I think I will bail early for Justice.

There are so many conflicts for me this year its going to be hard to decide what to tape and what not to tape.

I'm sure someone will be taping Justice too.  I've heard they're a great live act. 

[micktravis]

Well, day one went by without a hitch.  Lots of experimenting (only really one act I wanted to get, whole, on tape) so I went to a lot of different stages and experimented with lots of different setups.  And then I played them back and figured out what worked.  What I discovered is there is a lot more headroom than the red clipping lights would indicate, and this is confirmed looking at the waveforms for stuff I know looked way too hot today.  So I had to kind of learn to bit the bullet and accept a certain amount of red, knowing it wouldn't clip.  By the time Aphex Twin rolled around I was about as ready as I was going to be, so I got a place dead center and about 30 feet back.  And I went for it.

Some level-riding, but for the most part I left it alone.  And I'm really happy with it.  The device worked well, the show was great, and I think it sounds pretty good for my first full show.  Here's an mp3 excerpt, if anyone's interested.  About a minute.  The show was really varied, though, and this was probably the "niccest" sounding stuff he did.  Thoughts?