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Author Topic: New Zoom?  (Read 23766 times)

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Offline Kevin T

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2009, 08:24:04 AM »
OZ

You beat me by seconds on posting that link :( Great sound scape stuff !

Offline flintstone

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2009, 05:41:36 PM »
The Zoom H4n has been shipping to customers in Japan for a few days.
If you visit the English language version of Amazon.com for Japan, you'll
find the Zoom H4n for sale for the equivalent of $282 USD.  This leads
me to predict that the $350 introductory price in USA will fall rapidly
after a couple of weeks.

http://www.amazon.co.jp
click on the "in english" button in the upper right of the screen
then search for Zoom H4n

Flintstone

Offline (Evan)

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2009, 07:45:28 PM »
I'd love to see size comparisons of the H4n next to the Sony D50.

Offline flintstone

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2009, 09:00:20 PM »
If you squint real hard...you can see they're almost exactly the same size!

Zoom H4n          156 x 73 x 35 mm,  336 g
Sony PCM-D50    155 x 72 x 33 mm, 365 g

Flintstone

Offline vegas06

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2009, 12:37:35 PM »
I noticed right away form the looks of the new body, that Zoom ripped off the Sony D50 body style.
Of course there are some variations, but for the most part it's the D50 with Zoom components.

Offline illconditioned

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2009, 04:54:19 PM »
I noticed right away form the looks of the new body, that Zoom ripped off the Sony D50 body style.
Of course there are some variations, but for the most part it's the D50 with Zoom components.
The main advantage is the Zoom can do four track recording.  Not sure which combinations of inputs, though..

Oh yeah, it can also act as a USB interface on your computer.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline gossling

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2009, 05:02:23 PM »
Ok, received it a few days ago. 

First impressions:
Build quality is great.  Looks and feels sturdy.  Controls and menu are intuitive.  Dedicated level control is easy and quick to use.  I can go from 1-100 in about five seconds.  Although I don't actually have a microphone that terminates in stereo 1/8", I just tried plugging in some headphones to the ext. microphone input.  It cuts off the internal microphones, leaving the "Inputs 1 and 2" (XLR/TRS combo inputs) open for use.  So it is indeed possible to record from 4 external microphone channels simultaneously, to confirm our earlier speculations. 

Just made a quick 4-track recording hastily.  I'll upload it as soon as my computer stops being a fool.  The H4n records in two separate stereo files.  I will upload the two unedited files separately and blend the two into a third wav file.  The external microphones used were a matched pair of Naiant microphones with a self-noise rating of 21dB. 

Any easy tests you need me to run, I'm your guinea pig.

Offline vegas06

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2009, 05:13:58 PM »
Ok, received it a few days ago. 

First impressions:
Build quality is great.  Looks and feels sturdy.  Controls and menu are intuitive.  Dedicated level control is easy and quick to use.  I can go from 1-100 in about five seconds.  Although I don't actually have a microphone that terminates in stereo 1/8", I just tried plugging in some headphones to the ext. microphone input.  It cuts off the internal microphones, leaving the "Inputs 1 and 2" (XLR/TRS combo inputs) open for use.  So it is indeed possible to record from 4 external microphone channels simultaneously, to confirm our earlier speculations. 

Just made a quick 4-track recording hastily.  I'll upload it as soon as my computer stops being a fool.  The H4n records in two separate stereo files.  I will upload the two unedited files separately and blend the two into a third wav file.  The external microphones used were a matched pair of Naiant microphones with a self-noise rating of 21dB. 

Any easy tests you need me to run, I'm your guinea pig.

If possible, are you able to do some high input tests with the H4n.
The only thing that I hesitate about is how the internal pres handle extreme loud environments.  My H2 handles them very poorly, and clips with that annoying electronic chirping sound.  Of course I can, and do use the low gains etting, but the audio gets muddied up when I do.

I used to own the H4, and upgraded to an Edirol R44,  a ways back but don't remember how well it handled the extreme db levels.  I love my R44, but I am looking at the H4n to replace my R44, as the smaller size format of the H4n would fit my workflow (live event video production, very run and gun with little setup time) better.  But won't pull the trigger until I get feedback on the new pre amps.

Offline gossling

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2009, 09:06:40 PM »
Ok, received it a few days ago. 

First impressions:
Build quality is great.  Looks and feels sturdy.  Controls and menu are intuitive.  Dedicated level control is easy and quick to use.  I can go from 1-100 in about five seconds.  Although I don't actually have a microphone that terminates in stereo 1/8", I just tried plugging in some headphones to the ext. microphone input.  It cuts off the internal microphones, leaving the "Inputs 1 and 2" (XLR/TRS combo inputs) open for use.  So it is indeed possible to record from 4 external microphone channels simultaneously, to confirm our earlier speculations. 

Just made a quick 4-track recording hastily.  I'll upload it as soon as my computer stops being a fool.  The H4n records in two separate stereo files.  I will upload the two unedited files separately and blend the two into a third wav file.  The external microphones used were a matched pair of Naiant microphones with a self-noise rating of 21dB. 

Any easy tests you need me to run, I'm your guinea pig.

If possible, are you able to do some high input tests with the H4n.
The only thing that I hesitate about is how the internal pres handle extreme loud environments.  My H2 handles them very poorly, and clips with that annoying electronic chirping sound.  Of course I can, and do use the low gains etting, but the audio gets muddied up when I do.

I used to own the H4, and upgraded to an Edirol R44,  a ways back but don't remember how well it handled the extreme db levels.  I love my R44, but I am looking at the H4n to replace my R44, as the smaller size format of the H4n would fit my workflow (live event video production, very run and gun with little setup time) better.  But won't pull the trigger until I get feedback on the new pre amps.

Would close miking a loud piano suffice?

Offline vegas06

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2009, 09:08:53 AM »
Ok, received it a few days ago. 

First impressions:
Build quality is great.  Looks and feels sturdy.  Controls and menu are intuitive.  Dedicated level control is easy and quick to use.  I can go from 1-100 in about five seconds.  Although I don't actually have a microphone that terminates in stereo 1/8", I just tried plugging in some headphones to the ext. microphone input.  It cuts off the internal microphones, leaving the "Inputs 1 and 2" (XLR/TRS combo inputs) open for use.  So it is indeed possible to record from 4 external microphone channels simultaneously, to confirm our earlier speculations. 

Just made a quick 4-track recording hastily.  I'll upload it as soon as my computer stops being a fool.  The H4n records in two separate stereo files.  I will upload the two unedited files separately and blend the two into a third wav file.  The external microphones used were a matched pair of Naiant microphones with a self-noise rating of 21dB. 

Any easy tests you need me to run, I'm your guinea pig.

If possible, are you able to do some high input tests with the H4n.
The only thing that I hesitate about is how the internal pres handle extreme loud environments.  My H2 handles them very poorly, and clips with that annoying electronic chirping sound.  Of course I can, and do use the low gains etting, but the audio gets muddied up when I do.

I used to own the H4, and upgraded to an Edirol R44,  a ways back but don't remember how well it handled the extreme db levels.  I love my R44, but I am looking at the H4n to replace my R44, as the smaller size format of the H4n would fit my workflow (live event video production, very run and gun with little setup time) better.  But won't pull the trigger until I get feedback on the new pre amps.

Would close miking a loud piano suffice?

If you're really pounding the keys than maybe.
By loud, picture a wedding reception where the DJ is blasting his system, which of course is the norm.

Offline Kevin T

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2009, 10:20:48 PM »
Loud problems for me & my H2 are mostly Kick & Snare drums even unmicked. 120dbspl transients easily

KT

Offline vegas06

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2009, 09:39:14 AM »
Loud problems for me & my H2 are mostly Kick & Snare drums even unmicked. 120dbspl transients easily

KT

Kevin so true. the H2 does have problems with high pressure levels.
But if I remember correctly the H4 didn't have these problems, at least for me, but others reported problems.  Which is why I was curious as to how the new H4n handles high pressure levels.

—ML

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2009, 07:06:15 PM »
Some extremely interesting reports on the new Zoom can be seen at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/messages/36429?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1 - though the bottom line of the reports is that the device did not appear to perform to the published spec and it was returned.

Offline gossling

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2009, 10:16:59 PM »
Some extremely interesting reports on the new Zoom can be seen at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/messages/36429?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1 - though the bottom line of the reports is that the device did not appear to perform to the published spec and it was returned.

Nice find! I'll test the battery life with my broken in NiMH pair once they've recharged.  And I'll test those XLR flaws as well.

vegas06: What gain setting should I use to test the clipping level? The default (80/100) is extremely hot, and probably not the best for testing high SPL handling.  But you said that low gains make the sound muddy, so I'm not sure what to use...50/100?

For some reason my computer isn't allowing me to upload my audio files.  Mediafire keeps freezing when I try, and other hosting sites won't work either.  I'll try to get them up ASAP.

EDIT:
http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/07/first-look-at-the-zoom-h4n/
http://www.bradlinder.net/2009/03/zoom-h4n-audio-take-2-second-time-not.html
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 10:31:44 PM by gossling »

Offline bdasilva

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Re: New Zoom?
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2009, 12:45:51 PM »
Found on the Nature list

I received a Zoom H4n yesterday, and have formed a few impressions.

First, the H4n is a big improvement over the H4. It's got solid construction and much improved ergonomics. The recorder is large and heavy (340 g), but it's possible to hold it and operate the controls with one hand.

The H4n showed two flaws in my initial tests. First is battery life when running phantom power to mics. I got 95 minutes of battery life in one test recording stereo at 24/96, and 107 minutes recording at 16/44.1. That's using garden-variety AA cells, purchased at a local store. You'd probably do a bit better using expensive rechargeable AAs.

In contrast, the Marantz PMD661 lasted 3 hours using the same alkaline AA cells. The PMD661 uses four cells, while the H4n uses two.

The second shortcoming is preamp performance. The H4n self-noise is generally under good control, showing itself when the record gain is pushed to near maximum. I'd say the H4n is in the same class as recorders like the Tascam DR-1 and Marantz PMD60

The 1/8-inch input, on the back of the recorder close to the built-in mics, seems just a little bit quieter than the XLR inputs. I'll perform more tests to confirm.

The H4n offers unparalleled value. For about $350, the H4n offers desirable features like XLR inputs, phantom power, decent built-in mics, mid/side decoding, a pre-roll buffer and four channel recording.

The H4n would not my first choice when recording in a very quiet setting, but it would be a worthy companion when matched with a mic with a similar self-noise, and when recording a louder source.

More comments to come.
--oryoki

A little more testing of my H4N revealed some quirks.

First, if you try to record using a single mic connected to XLR with phantom power on, the other channel records a relatively high level of noise. This seems to be caused by the unterminated XLR input. Plugging in a second mic, but leaving it turned off, reduces this noise.

Second, with phantom power on, the noise level is higher than with it off and the mics receiving power from an external power source (ART Phantom II in this case).

Third, the 1/8-inch (3.5 mm) minijack on the rear of the recorder has less self-noise than either XLR input. Recordings made with a Rode NT1A mic powered by an ART Phantom II power supply and connected via the minijack had very low levels of self-noise.

Fourth, the right XLR of my H4N has a higher self noise level than the left XLR input. The difference is quite noticeable.

These listening tests were performed in a very quiet setting, and with the goal of finding the recorder's self-noise level. If you record in a setting with a higher level of ambient sound, the H4N recorder's input noise is likely to be masked.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions for further tests. After playing around a while longer this morning, I decided that the recorder must not be performing to specifications. So I'm returning it.

--oryoki


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