Topic: Sony PCM-M10 or the Olympus LS-11

[Massive Dynamic]

On January 26, 2010 I bought the Olympus LS-11.  This week I received a refund check in full.

The LS-11 in mp3 or wma mode (even when using a 32 gb sdhc card) has a limit of 4 gb recording per session.  I bought the unit wanting to do extended length ambient nature recording. According to the chart in the LS-11 users guide it could record over a 1,000 hrs using the 32 gb. sdhc card.

Stan Courtney

http://www.stancourtney.com/

Out of curiosity, what is the largest file you have recorded and what software will open that file?

[rjp]

On January 26, 2010 I bought the Olympus LS-11.  This week I received a refund check in full.

The LS-11 in mp3 or wma mode (even when using a 32 gb sdhc card) has a limit of 4 gb recording per session.  I bought the unit wanting to do extended length ambient nature recording. According to the chart in the LS-11 users guide it could record over a 1,000 hrs using the 32 gb. sdhc card.

Short story - in continuous mode the unit is limited to one file of 4 gb size.

Odd. I have an LS-10, but I always record to WAV. With the latest firmware installed, it will seamlessly auto-split WAV files at 2 GB (the normal limit for WAV files).

As for your 4 GB limit, that is quite likely a FAT32 limitation - but I'm surprised that it won't autosplit in MP3 or WMA. Maybe it's not feasible to do so with a lossy codec.

[fmaderjr]

You've peaked my curiosity. I'm wondering what battery system you were going to use that would power it for 100 hours let alone 1000. It sound like you probably wouldn't be where you could use the wall wart.

[stancourtney]

Using the SD722 or H-2 or M-10 they seamlessly auto-split the files at 2 GB or 4 GB. I may have to use Cool MP3 splitter to allow Cool Edit to fully load the file.

Again, this issue is not with WAV, but only MP3 or WMA. Olympus has stated that they will not change the firmware to allow the unit to record more than a 4 GB file in MP3 or WMA mode. 

I am using a  105 amp hr deep cell marine battery to power the recorder in wilderness areas of Colorado.

I called 10 retailers and 9 out of 10 told me that unit would record continuously to fill up the 32 gb card in MP3 and WMA.

So obviously both the average retailer and user is unaware of this limitation. The user guide does say that the maximum file size is limited but does not elaborate that the unit stops recording.

[jsfrank]

I am planning on buying the LS-11 tomorrow. Last chance for someone to talk me out of it. The feature I like best is the 8 gigs internal storage. I am thinking that should be less vulnerable to glitches than recording onto a card. I could then copy the files onto the card to keep the 8 gigs clear.

[kleiner Rainer]

I am planning on buying the LS-11 tomorrow. Last chance for someone to talk me out of it. The feature I like best is the 8 gigs internal storage. I am thinking that should be less vulnerable to glitches than recording onto a card. I could then copy the files onto the card to keep the 8 gigs clear.

Hmmm... Flash memory can wear out. If this happens, you can simply throw away the worn-out SD or Micro SD card. How do you do this with internal memory that is soldered to a circuit board? Both internal and removable flash memory use the same technology. They even share the same (serial) interface. I prefer to use the micro SD card in my M 10 and keep the internal memory as reserve and as a place to store a copy of "Wavosaur" to have that tool available for editing if I happen to connect my M 10 to somebody elses computer. The biggest danger to memory cards is constant plugging and unplugging (wear on the contact areas) and handling them (ESD!). So I leave the card in my recorder and transfer the files via USB. No danger here - the USB connector is much sturdier and better protected than the usual memory card!

But I have to admit that the new generation of memory card recorders is a big advance comparing them to tape recorders: no more head cleaning and realignment, no belts, pulleys and rolls to replace or clean and no wow and flutter due to bad cassette mechanisms...

Greetings,

Rainer

[jsfrank]

I am planning on buying the LS-11 tomorrow. Last chance for someone to talk me out of it. The feature I like best is the 8 gigs internal storage. I am thinking that should be less vulnerable to glitches than recording onto a card. I could then copy the files onto the card to keep the 8 gigs clear.

Hmmm... Flash memory can wear out. If this happens, you can simply throw away the worn-out SD or Micro SD card. How do you do this with internal memory that is soldered to a circuit board? Both internal and removable flash memory use the same technology. They even share the same (serial) interface. I prefer to use the micro SD card in my M 10 and keep the internal memory as reserve and as a place to store a copy of "Wavosaur" to have that tool available for editing if I happen to connect my M 10 to somebody elses computer. The biggest danger to memory cards is constant plugging and unplugging (wear on the contact areas) and handling them (ESD!). So I leave the card in my recorder and transfer the files via USB. No danger here - the USB connector is much sturdier and better protected than the usual memory card!

But I have to admit that the new generation of memory card recorders is a big advance comparing them to tape recorders: no more head cleaning and realignment, no belts, pulleys and rolls to replace or clean and no wow and flutter due to bad cassette mechanisms...

Greetings,

Rainer

I almost never took the original 4 gig card out of my MT 2496. When I experimented with an 8 gig and a 32 gig at 10K Lakes last year I lost sets when it froze. I went right back to the 4 gig and never looked back. I am now going to keep the MT2496 and start using it for DAT transfers from my DA20 that has been idle for around 4 years since I got it serviced at Pro Digital. It will be interesting to see what catches my eye when I open those dusty drawers where I keep my 1200+ DATs.

[chrise]

I am planning on buying the LS-11 tomorrow. Last chance for someone to talk me out of it. The feature I like best is the 8 gigs internal storage. I am thinking that should be less vulnerable to glitches than recording onto a card. I could then copy the files onto the card to keep the 8 gigs clear.

No glitches with M10 recording onto card (or the 4GB internal storage)

[jsfrank]

Okay, my Olympus LS-11 just arrived. Does it not have a digital in? All I see are the mini usb, mic, and line ins.

edit: I guess I could use my EgoSys Waveterminal U2A and go into the mini usb?

[jsfrank]

So does the Sony PCM-M10 have digital in? It appears the Olympus LS-11 doesn't. I am so pissed off right now. I tried calling Olympus customer service and kept getting disconnected.

Here is the LS-11 FAQ:

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_support_faqs.asp?id=1471#15

"What is the purpose of the LINE IN jack?


The LINE IN jack is intended to input recordings from the earphone jack of other audio devices such as radios, music players, microcassette and digital voice recorders, and computers. The process is known as “dubbing.” It is not recommended to input audio from such devices through the MIC jack."
So this thing is just a fancy recorder that only digitally records from it's own mics?

[rastasean]

So does the Sony PCM-M10 have digital in? It appears the Olympus LS-11 doesn't. I am so pissed off right now. I tried calling Olympus customer service and kept getting disconnected.

Here is the LS-11 FAQ:

there is no digital in of any sort on the m10

[Todd R]

The M10 doesn't have a digital input, but the Sony D50 does (optical digital input).  You'd need a V3 with the optical output mod from Grace to use the V3 as a the digital input source for a D50.

Other than the D50, the Marantz PMD-661 is probably the next cheaper alternative (not including the MT).  Most of the lower cost digital recorders only have analog inputs, not digital inputs.  So they can record information represented digitally (as opposed to analog recording), but they only take an analog input stream, which then goes through the recorder's internal A>D circuitry to create the digital representation that is recorded.

Most of the more expensive digital recorders, R-44, DR-680, HD-P2, 702/722/744 can take a digital input, most of the cheaper and especially handheld recorder cannot.  Of the smaller recorders that take a digital input, I think it is mainly the microtrack, D50, and 661.

[rastasean]

Of the smaller recorders that take a digital input, I think it is mainly the microtrack, D50, and 661.

don't forget the iriver hp-120 as well as many different sony mini disc recorders. (hi-md)

[Todd R]

Of the smaller recorders that take a digital input, I think it is mainly the microtrack, D50, and 661.

don't forget the iriver hp-120 as well as many different sony mini disc recorders. (hi-md)

Sorry, I was thinking 24bit recorders.  I really have no idea on the possibilities for 16bit recorders with digital inputs.  DAT decks too for that matter if we're talking out of production units (like the iRiver).

[fmaderjr]

"What is the purpose of the LINE IN jack?
So this thing is just a fancy recorder that only digitally records from it's own mics?

It really seems like you have not researched the M10 by checking the tapersection threads on it.

The M10 has a great mic input (but many mics will require a battery box to provide adequate plug in power). illcondition has mentioned a number of mics he got great results with without a battery box, including CA-11's and AT-853's.

It also has a great line input for those who want to use an external pre (like the very small ST-9100).

It does lack a digital input, but so do all recorders in its price range except the MTII. Unfortunately many here have lost recordings due to bugs in the MTII and the MTII is not nearly as good a recorder as the M10 when not used solely as a bit bucket for any external preamp with a built in ADC.