Topic: Nagra BB+

[it-goes-to-eleven]

HI kirkd,
You are wrong. And you choose to be wrong. I'll say it again (how many times must I say it?). This was a post concerning Nagra not mics. I am not the one bringing it to a full circle. It's you, and others like you, doing that. I'm not going to simply be a punching bag for your, umm, crap. I will come at you like an eagle with stretched talons.

So beware.

[kirk97132]

HI kirkd,
You are wrong. And you choose to be wrong. I'll say it again (how many times must I say it?). This was a post concerning Nagra not mics. I am not the one bringing it to a full circle. It's you, and others like you, doing that. I'm not going to simply be a punching bag for your, umm, crap. I will come at you like an eagle with stretched talons.

So beware.

Since the thread has moved into mics like an inevitable natural force, it has been useful. At least I'm learning from it. I think others will too. So, depart from us if you can't make a contribution. I really don't care what you think about me. I just consider the source and then all is right.

Sparky

Cool now we go to threats....on the interweb behind a computer with an anonymous screen name.   ewwwww I'm scared now. Since YOU chose to keep moving the direction BACK to mics yeah you are pairing a set of very low end  entry level consumer mics with a very high high end professional recorder.  Who wouldn't see the absurdity in that....oh wait you.   But hey I offered to sell you a brand new set of better mics of the same company you placed your faith in at a better deal than you could get anywhere.  And since you brought it up, you are buying the Nagra of recommendations ALONE.  Have you used one?  Have even bother to try to listen to samples of things recorded on a Nagra VS anything else.  Just like marring after the first date.  So how is it that you will listen to those strangers....well because it suits your views.  So your statements continue to contradict yourself, as you have through this whole thread.   Please lets hear some more threats maybe you can make me cry if you try real hard.....

[Karma]

HI,
No need. You are already crying. I'm not going to strike back because I don't want to see this thread locked.

Sparky

[aaronji]

And are you smart? Smart enough to let me do this in my own way? Smart enough to realize that you are not going to change my mind? Smart enough to know there is truth in what I am saying? Smart enought to know that I have never, and never would, claimed to be a super genius or "King of the Tapers". That just pisses me off. As for the backgrounds you mentioned, it's beside the point. I'll accept advice when it makes sense to me. If it doesn't I won't. So, it doesn't and neither do you. It's the PHD's that drove this country to the brink of destruction. Don't wave that flag. It has little credibility.

NO, I don't think you are smart enough.

Sparky

Smart enough to know that you, sir, are a pompous ass...

[newplanet7]

Ok. People have tried to help out here and you are doing nothing but fueling the situation with lies. Proof?? Look at the quotes below.
You asked for the help based on a hypothetical budget and told us to have fun with it. CORRECT? You need to stop insulting people here
and either lock this thread and move on or carry out what you said in the below quotes. CONTRADICTION IS A BITCH.

HI kirkd,
You are wrong. And you choose to be wrong. I'll say it again (how many times must I say it?). This was a post concerning Nagra not mics. I am not the one bringing it to a full circle. It's you, and others like you, doing that.

Let me pose a hypothetical question to you. Let's say I had a mic budget of up to $2000 for two matched mics.

Given my goals that have been stated many times in this thread, which mics would you suggest for $2000? I'd love to hear you views because at some point in the future I will need your advice and I will use it.
Please, have fun with this. What would you buy?
Thanks, Sparky

[Karma]

HI newplanet7,
I feel you have tried to be fair. I posed the question about the $2000 budget because the thread was spending most of its words ripping me and the way I choose to spend my money. It wanted to go to mics. So, I decided to make the best of a direction I never intended it to go. Threads tend to have minds of their own. But folks insist on coming back to the blood letting. I have no desire to be a punching bag. So,there is only one thing to do - lock it.

It's too bad because I have almost finished the spreadsheet which I think everyone would find interesting. But, I'm out of here.

Thanks everyone for your information. NO thanks to you who want to villify.

Sparky

[jlykos]

OK, I'll chime in again.  Microtech SMS2000 system with M20 (cardioid) capsules.  I have run Microtech Gefell SMS2000 microphones for 10 years now and have never even thought of changing anything.  They sound better than anything *to me* at *any* price point.  And if you look around, you can find a new pair for $2000.  Before making that purchase, I listened to literally thousands of hours of recordings with dpa, Schoeps, Neumann, and AKG microphones (MBHO, Milab, and Beyerdynamic were not in wide usage at that point).  I may be the only one here, but I really don't like MBHO; they have a certain hardness to their sound signature that is not musical to my ears.  They are flexible and have a wide variety of capsules, however, which is really cool and all, but I don't care if they don't sound very good.

This thread jumped the shark at some point and I don't feel like going back to find out when.  All I can say is to give everybody the patience that they deserve, especially considering that the OP is a new member here and seems to me to still be feeling things out.  If he has his opinions, so be it.  God knows that I have mine.

[newplanet7]

Have a good one karma.
Hope you got some info.
-todd

[Karma]

FORUM PREFERENCES MAN    MODEL   MENTIONS       EACH    SOURCE   COMMENT Schoeps   MK 21   2   788.00   B&H   Wide Card - Capsule Only    MK 2   2   765.00   B&H   Omni - Capsule Only    MK 4   3   698.00   B&H   Card - Capsule Only    CMR   1   NA   Not Found B&H    PFA   1   NA   Not Found B&H    CMC 6   3   1743.00   B&H   Microphone Complete    MK 41   2   1743.00   B&H   Super-Card - Microphone Complete    CMC 64   1   1743.00   B&H   Super-Card-Microphone Complete; Same as CMC 6?    MK 22   2   788.00   B&H   Card – Capsule Only                 Microtech Gefell   M2000 M200?   1   748.44   Full Compass   Pattern ?    M20   1   724.71   Full Compass   Card- Capsule    M300   1      Not Found B&H       M296   1                          Beyerdynamic   MC910   1   599.00   B&H   Omni    MC930   2   599.00   B&H   Card    MC803   1   NA   Not Found B&H       MC703   1   NA   Not Found B&H       MC930   1   1149.00   B&H   Card – Matched pair                 AKG   C 480 b   1   1078.00   B&H   Omni    CK61   2   1099.00   B&H   Omni    CK62   1   1078.00   B&H   Omni    C451   1   579.00   B&H   Card    C451/ST   0   1299.00   B&H   Card – Matched Piair    C 460   1   NA   Not Found B&H       C 414 XLS/ST   0   2199.00   B&H   Selectable-Lg Dia-Matched Pair    C 414 XLS   1   999.00   B&H   Selectable-Lg Dia    CK 391   1   539.00   B&H   Card    393   1   NA   Not Found B&H       461   1   NA   Not Found B&H       463   1   NA   Not Found B&H       C 1000   1   199.00   B&H   Card-Variable    SE  300B   1   539.00   B&H   Card    CK 91   1   539.00   B&H   Card    CK 93   1   478.00   B&H   Hyper Card    C 60b   1   NA   Not Found B&H       CK 1   1   NA   Not Found B&H       CK 3   1   NA   Not Found B&H       CK 63   1   1058.00   B&H   Hyper Card                 Milab   VM-44   2   NA   Not Found B&H                    DPA   406X (4061)   1   443.00   B&H   Omni    Reference Series   1   NA   Not Found B&H                    DPA/B&K   4011   1   1949.00   B&H   Card    4021   1   1765.00   B&H   Card - Compact    4022   1   1765.00   B&H   Card - Compact    4023   1   ?   Not Found B&H                    B&K   4011   1   NA   Not Found B&H                    Nevation   MC49   1   1199.00   Recording Hacks   Card                 Sennheiser   MKH-8040   3   1199.95   B&H   Card    MKH  8020   2   1199.95   B&H   Omni    MKH 8020ST   0   2399.95   B&H   Omni-Matched Pair    MKH 40   1   1199.95   B&H   Wide Card    MKH 20   1   1199.95   B&H   Omni                 Neumann   KMS 140   1   1599.95   B&H   Card    KM 183   3   899.95   B&H   Omni – Basic Model    KM 184   2   849.95   B&H   Card    SKM183   2   1699.95   B&H   Omni – Matched Pair of KM 183    SKM184   2   199.95   B&H   Box for SKM 183                 MBHO   No Models   1   NA   Atlas Pro   Several Models                 Josephson   C42   1   525.00   Mercenary

Audio   Card

I guess I don't know how to post a table. I'm sorry for the screwed up formatting. If you stare at it long enough, it will make sense.

Love to You All,

Sparky               
               
               
               
               
               

[earmonger]

The gear you folks are talking about is way beyond my budget.

But looking at your spreadsheet, Karma, I want to point out that the mics you are considering do different things, and since you call yourself a beginner at recording you need to be aware of some basic terms about mic pickup patterns. Maybe you are already.

Card is cardioid: directional. Imagine a heart-shaped (cardio)  pattern going forward with the mic at its point. Supercard is a narrower heart, hypercardioid is an even narrower one.

Omni is omnidirectional. Picks up all around you, like your ears.

Many people who do stealthy concert recording use cards to limit all the audience noise around them. Vocal and instrumental mics for stage use are also cardioid, to focus on the source of the sound.   

You mentioned recording trains. With a cardioid, much less super- or hypercardioid, that train is going to ride into and out of your recording much faster. Ditto for classical music--you really want the reverberation of a good concert hall in the recording, because that makes the music sound more natural. So eliminating cards from your list might give you fewer choices to juggle.

[Karma]

HI ear,
If you had read the entire thread (I don't blame you if you have not, it's long) you would see that I am no beginner to audio. I'm just a beginner to live recording. I've been around the basic terminology for decades. What I need is to learn technique.

Sparky

[John Willett]

Going back to the OP and my post #2 at the beginning.

With the budget and the desire for a Nagra, I would look into the new one which Nagra will be showing at NAB next month which I think will be close in price to the ex-demo BB+.  The BB+ is 20-bit / 48kHz - the new unit will be 24-bit / 96kHz with the same mic. pre-amps as the Nagra VI.  Personally I would spend the money there.

I think you will end up being very unhappy with the C1000s - if you want to start inexpensive I would get a pair of Rode NT5 or NT55 as these will always be usable later.

You can then make up your mind at your own speed for a decent pair of mics..  Though if you are doing a lot of outside stuff I would look at a stereoset of MKH 8040 or an MKH 30/40 MS rig as these are RF condensers and work well in the damp.

[Karma]

HI John,
I'm concerned about several things which you do not know, you can't. First, the ultimate price in the US is not firm. Next, when will the new unit actually be for sale through normal outlets. I want to get under way now not months from now. These two things definitely hang me up. I need to make a decision and, to be honest, I'm leaning towards the BB+.

I don't want to get the mic thing going again. I have heard all the bad words about the C 1000 posted here. But how do you account for the good reviews I read? I based my purchase on those reviews and they were very positive. No, they did not claim the C1000 was a world beater but they were positive, in fact very positive; enough so that they did not scare me away. If it was just one review, I could dismiss it as a marketing ploy. But, it was several reviews by authors unassociated with one another. I don't think there were untrue motives involved.

Have you actually used a C1000? Sorry, but I must ask that question.

Sparky

[kirk97132]

Have you actually used a C1000? Sorry, but I must ask that question.

Yeah I have constantly over the last 8 years in a variety of recording and sound reinforcement applications because that is what is given to me to use at work.   Most reviews I have ever seen are are only someone's opinion.

Just accept the fact that I will not take things on pure, uniformed faith. Yet, that is exactly what you are asking me to do. One doesn't get married after the first date, right?

Back to the mic topic again aren't we?

[Karma]

HI kirkd,
So why don't you get the mic of your dreams? Why undergo the misery?

Sparky