Topic: M-Audio's response to 48v phantom power bug

[cmoorevt]

Hopefully some of the larger customers (BH, Sweetwater and Guitar Center) can help get this straightened out, although I can't see how it could be fixed without the creation of a second version of the device or a major recall.

Also, apparently if you order this from M-Audio France or the M-Audio Spanish site, 48v is still an option.  No need for a translation on this:

"double préampli micro avec alimentation fantôme 48 V pour les micros de studio"
http://www.m-audio.com/products/fr_fr/MicroTrack2496-focus.html

-and-

"previos de micro duales con alimentación phantom de 48V para micrófonos de estudio "
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.focus&ID=e592504d50209547321a128eec573913&FORCESTATICPAGE=1&setlocale=es_la

-and-

M-Audio Germany still has the photo showing the 48v button.  http://www.m-audio.de/us/MicroTrack-side-L.jpg

[BLOODYJACK]

I guess There will not be a recall Creative Nomad was on revision 3 before it became usefull to tapers

[F.O.Bean]

Hopefully some of the larger customers (BH, Sweetwater and Guitar Center) can help get this straightened out, although I can't see how it could be fixed without the creation of a second version of the device or a major recall.

Also, apparently if you order this from M-Audio France or the M-Audio Spanish site, 48v is still an option.  No need for a translation on this:

"double préampli micro avec alimentation fantôme 48 V pour les micros de studio"
http://www.m-audio.com/products/fr_fr/MicroTrack2496-focus.html

-and-

"previos de micro duales con alimentación phantom de 48V para micrófonos de estudio "
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.focus&ID=e592504d50209547321a128eec573913&FORCESTATICPAGE=1&setlocale=es_la

-and-

M-Audio Germany still has the photo showing the 48v button.  http://www.m-audio.de/us/MicroTrack-side-L.jpg

i would email that directly to m-audio

[oleg]

http://www.neumann.com/forums/view.php?bn=neumann_mictec&key=1128358820&v=f
for 100+xx tappers

[bdasilva]

Most phantom powering units regulate the voltage that goes to the capsule to around 10 v...    The whole 48v is a starting point. My Oktavas  and my TLs both run fine with this unit... This 30v thing is no dealbreaker.

[Brian Skalinder]

This 30v thing is no dealbreaker.

For some mics, perhaps not others.  But as others have mentioned, we don't yet know how much current the MT is able to provide to the mics.  That could prove the deal breaker for certain power-hungry mics.

Me, I don't care - bit-transparent 24/48 S/PDIF input and I'm thrilled!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Most phantom powering units regulate the voltage that goes to the capsule to around 10 v...    The whole 48v is a starting point. My Oktavas  and my TLs both run fine with this unit... This 30v thing is no dealbreaker.

48v isn't a starting point, it is an international spec.  Have you done any frequency response tests at 30v?

I believe the Schoeps capsules see 60 volts.

[Colin Liston]

I tried my 4023's.  I couldn't get a decent level. 

[mmedley.]

...as far as 48V being an "international spec" that is almost laughable...."phantom power" has always been ambiguous.....

While I agree it is certainly ambiguous and left wide open to interpretation...it is definitely a "standard."

IEC 268-15/DIN45596

[eric.B]

This 30v thing is no dealbreaker.

For some mics, perhaps not others.  But as others have mentioned, we don't yet know how much current the MT is able to provide to the mics.  That could prove the deal breaker for certain power-hungry mics.

Me, I don't care - bit-transparent 24/48 S/PDIF input and I'm thrilled!

yup   

[mmedley.]

This 30v thing is no dealbreaker.

For some mics, perhaps not others.  But as others have mentioned, we don't yet know how much current the MT is able to provide to the mics.  That could prove the deal breaker for certain power-hungry mics.

Me, I don't care - bit-transparent 24/48 S/PDIF input and I'm thrilled!

yup   

Yep, except 24/96.   I never plan to use phantom on this thing so I could really care less. I don't even have my MT yet. I had one on pre-order, but had to cancel due to some family circumstances. I should be picking one up in the next week though. Come on new firmware!

[anhisr]

my new note from Neumann
Dear Mr. Meyer,

thanks for the information. I'll put the M-Audio Microtrack 24/96 on my "problem list".
It is amazing how many manufacturers think they can save money, and design effort, by economizing in the wrong places. It's just like they would expect their TV to work perfectly with only 70 V, instead of 110V or 230 V.
And, the phantom power standard specifying 12V, 24V or 48V has been around since the 1960s....., so it's not that new.

Best regards,
Martin Schneider
Neumann Mic Development 

[John R]

my new note from Neumann
Dear Mr. Meyer,

thanks for the information. I'll put the M-Audio Microtrack 24/96 on my "problem list".
It is amazing how many manufacturers think they can save money, and design effort, by economizing in the wrong places. It's just like they would expect their TV to work perfectly with only 70 V, instead of 110V or 230 V.
And, the phantom power standard specifying 12V, 24V or 48V has been around since the 1960s....., so it's not that new.

Best regards,
Martin Schneider
Neumann Mic Development 

love that dry, German humor

[pietje]

In essence, it is a bit difficult to predict what happens with powering systems that simply do not follow the international standards.
...
It's just like they would expect their TV to work perfectly with only 70 V, instead of 110V or 230 V.
Best regards,
Martin Schneider
Neumann Mic Development 

love that dry, German humor

Funny, but exactly zero information. With a circuit diagram, that Neumann does not supply, it is not to difficult to predict what the effect is.  The effect can range from working propperly to not working at all. The customer who bought this expensive Neumann microphone asked for this specific information and got nothing. Electronics do not depend on international standards but on laws of physic.

[anhisr]

This was the first note he sent. 
Dear Mr. Meyer,

I'm afraid there is no defined behaviour for the KM140s with only 30 V. And for testing, one would have to simulate the complete setup: not only the voltage, but also the current resources etc etc. In essence, it is a bit difficult to predict what happens with powering systems that simply do not follow the international standards.

The KM140s might work fine; the maximum level they can handle before distorting could be relevantly lower; the internal circuit might make strange noises when it doesn't get enough current; in the worst case a minimal mains power voltage change might happen during recording, causing the microphone to stop working...

Out of curiosity, and for my files: which preamp or console are you using, that provides only 30 V.

Best regards,
Martin Schneider / Neumann Mic. Development