Topic: M-Audio's response to 48v phantom power bug

[pietje]

This was the first note he sent

There was a simple question: I just wanted to know if I could damage the mics using only 30v phantom power.

This question was not answered, although the answer was funny.

[Colin Liston]

in the worst case a minimal mains power voltage change might happen during recording, causing the microphone to stop working...

Best regards,
Martin Schneider / Neumann Mic. Development 

Lovely.....

[nickgregory]

In essence, it is a bit difficult to predict what happens with powering systems that simply do not follow the international standards.
...
It's just like they would expect their TV to work perfectly with only 70 V, instead of 110V or 230 V.
Best regards,
Martin Schneider
Neumann Mic Development 

love that dry, German humor

Funny, but exactly zero information. With a circuit diagram, that Neumann does not supply, it is not to difficult to predict what the effect is.  The effect can range from working propperly to not working at all. The customer who bought this expensive Neumann microphone asked for this specific information and got nothing. Electronics do not depend on international standards but on laws of physic.

huh?  neumann sold their product to work with a standard.  they have no obligation to make it work with a non standard.  kind of like a tv manufacturer where their unit was manuf to be used wtih 110V AC, but you want to power it with DC...up to you to figure it out

[pietje]

huh?  neumann sold their product to work with a standard.  they have no obligation to make it work with a non standard.  kind of like a tv manufacturer where their unit was manuf to be used wtih 110V AC, but you want to power it with DC...up to you to figure it out

That is a good example. The question was: I just wanted to know if I could damage the mics using only 30v phantom power.
If the TV starts with a mains transformer the answer is: "Yes, you will see smoke coming from your TV"

For this microphone it is hard for the owner to figure out what happens, as there is no cirquit diagram available, For Neumann, with the cirquit diagram at hand it would be not to difficult to say something like: "The KM140 can be used on lower phantom voltages then 48 volts but the specs are then no longer guaranteed." Then the owner can start figuring out.

You are right, there is no obligation to answer, but I prefer vendors that do answer customers.

[F.O.Bean]

well, yinz are looking too depply into this IMO, if ya need phantom that freakin bad, buy a fuckin phantom power box, done deal

m-audio screwed up bigtime on this, the pics we saw said 48v and they didnt deliver, if neumann says the mics may be damaged, i'd start to figure out a way to pwer them the right way, like w/ phantom power boxes neumann and akg make nic phantom units and cheaper ones can also be found

ya'll cant expect this to change, just figure out a way around it

[it-goes-to-eleven]

You are right, there is no obligation to answer, but I prefer vendors that do answer customers.

in the worst case a minimal mains power voltage change might happen during recording, causing the microphone to stop working..

That seemed like an answer.  I assume that the 'stop working' bit would be only temporary and that he would be more specific if there was a chance of damaging the microphone.  But "stop working" can be interpreted in ways that would scare most mic owners..

[anhisr]

Oh,
   I have a V3 to work around it.  I was just finding out what Neumann had to say about it.  Not just what people thought or what other companies said about thier mics. That way if in a pinch or if I ever decided to stealth, I would know if there is a chance it would blow my mics. Information is king

[eric.B]

well, yinz are looking too depply into this IMO, if ya need phantom that freakin bad, buy a fuckin phantom power box, done deal

m-audio screwed up bigtime on this, the pics we saw said 48v and they didnt deliver, if neumann says the mics may be damaged, i'd start to figure out a way to pwer them the right way, like w/ phantom power boxes neumann and akg make nic phantom units and cheaper ones can also be found

ya'll cant expect this to change, just figure out a way around it

I agree...

Q:  What is required to power the Neumann km140?
A:  48 V ± 4 V

Q:  What are the specs on the MT2496 in terms of phantom power?
A:  Well, It was stated in early specs that the MT2496 put out 48v phantom, but upon testing, it only puts out 30v.

48 V ± 4 V   does not equal     30 V

edit:  also.. I dont blame Neumann for not giving you a direct answer..   They list specific specs for their power needs.. 

[pfife]

well, yinz are looking too depply into this IMO, if ya need phantom that freakin bad, buy a fuckin phantom power box, done deal

m-audio screwed up bigtime on this, the pics we saw said 48v and they didnt deliver, if neumann says the mics may be damaged, i'd start to figure out a way to pwer them the right way, like w/ phantom power boxes neumann and akg make nic phantom units and cheaper ones can also be found

ya'll cant expect this to change, just figure out a way around it

This is the correct answer.  Not to mention, it'll probably be 3 days and everyone will want to run a pre in front of this thing anyways... I don't forsee everyone abandoning their +$1000 preamps for the preamps/A/D in a $400 consumer/prosumer product.  Not at all.

I'd also like to add that even if it were +48v phantom power, you'd then have even worse problems with the battery life.

I know it sucks, and seems like they are pulling a fast one w/ some false advertising and shit, but I don't see this being fixed...

[F.O.Bean]

well, yinz are looking too depply into this IMO, if ya need phantom that freakin bad, buy a fuckin phantom power box, done deal

m-audio screwed up bigtime on this, the pics we saw said 48v and they didnt deliver, if neumann says the mics may be damaged, i'd start to figure out a way to pwer them the right way, like w/ phantom power boxes neumann and akg make nic phantom units and cheaper ones can also be found

ya'll cant expect this to change, just figure out a way around it

This is the correct answer.  Not to mention, it'll probably be 3 days and everyone will want to run a pre in front of this thing anyways... I don't forsee everyone abandoning their +$1000 preamps for the preamps/A/D in a $400 consumer/prosumer product.  Not at all.

I'd also like to add that even if it were +48v phantom power, you'd then have even worse problems with the battery life.

I know it sucks, and seems like they are pulling a fast one w/ some false advertising and shit, but I don't see this being fixed...

GREAT point w/ the battery point

maybe they had a choice:
1. put the full 48v phantom in and have HORRIBLE battery life, or
2. just leave it at 30v, where most mics would work, and have a little better battery life?

as a company, i probably would have left it at 30v as well, i mean its not hard to come by true 48v phantom, granted it is another box or two, at least you know youre mics are not gonna get ruined

also, sucks for you stealthers, but most stealth mics are powered off of battery boxes anyway so.......

[F.O.Bean]

also, having 2 battery boxes>mt is still about the same size as prolly mp2>d7/8 or even mp2>sbm1>d7/8

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I'd also like to add that even if it were +48v phantom power, you'd then have even worse problems with the battery life.

I would expect that the mic will still require the same amount of power and the battery drain will be comparable. So if Schoeps require 4 mA at 48 volts, they'll want around 6.4 mA at 30v.  So I wouldn't expect savings there.  Some might even draw more because they're outside the design spec.

It is very possible that the 48v supply would be less efficient than a 30v circuit. I agree that there must have been a reason they couldn't do 48v

Regardless, I'd rather supply the MT with more juice via a USB power pack than put another device (which also requires power) in my audio signal chain.

[pfife]

I'd also like to add that even if it were +48v phantom power, you'd then have even worse problems with the battery life.

I would expect that the mic will still require the same amount of power and the battery drain will be comparable. So if Schoeps require 4 mA at 48 volts, they'll want around 6.4 mA at 30v.  So I wouldn't expect savings there.  Some might even draw more because they're outside the design spec.

It is very possible that the 48v supply would be less efficient than a 30v circuit. I agree that there must have been a reason they couldn't do 48v

I'll go with it bro!  You know way more about this stuff than I... It just seemed logical to me.

[Colin Liston]

I wrote DPA about the 48 volt issue, and got this repsonse:

Hi Colin,

You should have no problem.  The mics will reach full performance down
to 28 volts, and can not be damaged by low voltage.

Best Regards,
 

DPA Microphones, Inc.
691 Gray Mountain Drive
Lyons, CO  80540
303-823-5830 (fax)
www.dpamicrophones.com


Hell yeah bitches!

[nickgregory]

the response on the DPA 406x line?