Topic: Tascam HD-P2 12-10-2005

[CQBert]

My new toy arrived today...           

Pictures are posted...

I will do some trials tomorrow and will be recording Splilt Lip Rayfield on Tue and will post my field results then.

CQBert

[paulrennix]

so howd it go?

[Kyle]

I really want one of these so -

couple questions -

regarding file size

I read/heard that the .bwf format is not subject to the 2gb limitation, it can go up to four gb. Is this the case? If not, does it handle the autosplit well?

Thanks

[CQBert]

File size is user selectable and yes you can go over 2gig...  Most programs now do not like these large files and since they mesh seamlessly 2gig seems solid for now..

my 2 cents.

CQBert

[paulrennix]

how about the power.

I found the owners manual here:
http://www.tascam.com/Products/HDP2/HD-P2_Eng_1_00.pdf

I'm kinda bummed there isn't a 4 pin xlr power in on it. Is the AC in at least LOCKING like the v3?

5.5 hours on 8 AA's... w/good batteries (assuming 2000 mAh/ea) the would mean this thing draws 2910 mA/hr.

AND a 12 amp hour SLA would power it for just a few minutes over 4 hours. Seems like a pretty heavy duty draw for writing to compact flash!

Lets see... that would mean to power this and a v3 at a fest (assume 11hr/day) I'd need 4 SLAs a day. thats a little heavy.

It sure looks nice though, and the price is much more in my range than the 722.

 

[Brian Skalinder]

5.5 hours on 8 AA's... w/good batteries (assuming 2000 mAh/ea) the would mean this thing draws 2910 mA/hr.

AND a 12 amp hour SLA would power it for just a few minutes over 4 hours. Seems like a pretty heavy duty draw for writing to compact flash!

Lets see... that would mean to power this and a v3 at a fest (assume 11hr/day) I'd need 4 SLAs a day. thats a little heavy.

Keep in mind they've probably rated the power based on phantom/pre/ADC all running.  Running strictly as a bit-bucket, it should achieve better run-times.  'Course, manufacturers consistently over-report the run-time, so...maybe the bit-bucket run-times are close to the specs, while running full phantom/pre/ADC are even shorter than spec'd.  Time will tell...

[paulrennix]

yea, I was thinking about that...

the v3 pulls less than an 1000 ma/hr and it does all that. If we could knock 1000ma/hr off the draw on this thing it would be good to go for 6 hrs per 12 Ah SLA.

[Kyle]

File size is user selectable and yes you can go over 2gig...  Most programs now do not like these large files and since they mesh seamlessly 2gig seems solid for now..

my 2 cents.

CQBert

thanks

[oleg]

how about the power.

I found the owners manual here:
http://www.tascam.com/Products/HDP2/HD-P2_Eng_1_00.pdf

I'm kinda bummed there isn't a 4 pin xlr power in on it. Is the AC in at least LOCKING like the v3?

5.5 hours on 8 AA's... w/good batteries (assuming 2000 mAh/ea) the would mean this thing draws 2910 mA/hr.

AND a 12 amp hour SLA would power it for just a few minutes over 4 hours. Seems like a pretty heavy duty draw for writing to compact flash!

Lets see... that would mean to power this and a v3 at a fest (assume 11hr/day) I'd need 4 SLAs a day. thats a little heavy.

It sure looks nice though, and the price is much more in my range than the 722.

 

the power consumption is 600ma in 12 v maximum external , what bring it for 7w
so the 12 amp 12 v battery will be good for 20 hours at least

the internal battery calculations seems like relative to 2000ma , so with 2500-2700 batteries you already have today, you might go almost 7 hours of recording .
keep in mind that usually the power specification are for non powered mics with back light off so if you are running schoepses which pull 4 ma each ,that's another half watt per hour , the earthworks double this figure , what could take about 20% of your running time
what is not so bad anyway .
for long run time , you can use lithium cells which might bring you to double  the time

[kgreener]

forget the powering for now y'all.....what's the HD-P2 like CQBert?!?  do ya like it?  how does it sound??  are the preamps worth a darn? 

we'd love a full report as inquiring minds want to know! 

[CQBert]

OK - some more preliminary...

Ease of operation.... A

Initial Set-up.... A

Size.... basically same as DAP-1

Weight... Light  (722 is metal tank > this is very light)

Pre-amp...  B  (looking for Oade Mod early 2006)

A/D...  I have had no issues, solid but still early

CF Writing...  A no issues with 4 gig  45x card at 24/96  //  they say it will take a microdrive and work ok but they seem to easily skipped with the slightest shocks... sticking with CF

Transfer...  Firewire (included cable, nice touch) fast

Quirks - The manual is adamant about uning the eject commands on the screen when removing the CF card... similarly the fire wire seems to like to be connected and unplugged in the same fashion... I am not a super computer operator and sometime if forget to do things like this... hopefully it is precautionary and when I forget it will not cost me (if it does I will learn the hard way - like most things)

FYI for the group... people have asked me why I sold the 722 and purchased this... simple.. at the time I had planned to move to a HBB  Porta Drive / Foxtes or DEVA Multi track system but life through me a curve ball > My girlfriend and I are expecting and that type of cost did not make sense.  Tascam has these set up with timecode ability and I am considering, if the moon and stars align picking up a second, a timecode generator and be able to have solid state 4 ch, time matched recording under $2800... only time will tell on that.

Simply put - a nice machine - for the money, if you do not stealth exclusively not much is in its class.  IMO it is a little large to stealth with on a regular basis but I know people who would so there it is.

CQBert

[sleepypedro]

Quirks - The manual is adamant about uning the eject commands on the screen when removing the CF card... similarly the fire wire seems to like to be connected and unplugged in the same fashion... I am not a super computer operator and sometime if forget to do things like this... hopefully it is precautionary and when I forget it will not cost me (if it does I will learn the hard way - like most things)

this isn't a quirk of the tascam unit -- it's absolutely mandatory for any CF device.  follow those instructions or you can and WILL fry your CF card.

[kgreener]

thanks for the report bro, and congrats to you and the little lady on the pending addition!!  +t

[CQBert]

Thanks Pedro... I will heed the advice..

[kevin p]

File size is user selectable and yes you can go over 2gig...  Most programs now do not like these large files and since they mesh seamlessly 2gig seems solid for now..

my 2 cents.

CQBert

Just got mine today, and I could only scroll to a max of 2GB. Could you get more than that in the settings? This thing is the tits, so easy to use.

EDIT: Have upgraded software to v1.03 and 2GB is the max file size. And in playing around with it, it's not recording in .bwf. Regular ol' .WAV files is what I am getting.

[jibooer]

yes, we have been anticipating your report as it looks like a great upgrade to the DAT units. thanks alot.

[kidtexas]

BWF's don't have to have the .bwf extension.  They can have .wav.  To my knowledge, the only real difference between a wave file and a broadcast wave file is a chunk of data in the file labeled 'bext' that has some info about timecode and some other stuff.  Broadcast waves do not have to have the .bwf extension.

[philb]

I think you are right. My fostex records in the broadcast wave format (.bwf) and up to 4 gb. Basically, bwf is exactly the same as WAV but with a time stamp. Older software versions of the fr-2 had the 2 gb limit but updates by fostex created two seemless 2 gb WAV files.

[CQBert]

OOOPPPSSS - 

2 gig file size limit...  thought it had an larger setting but was mistaken.

CQBert

[sygdwm]

surely it starts a new file seamlessly, no?

[kevin p]

surely it starts a new file seamlessly, no?

Yes, it has an auto append feature you can turn on or off.

[sygdwm]

you run it yet? how's the a/d?

[kevin p]

you run it yet? how's the a/d?

Not yet, will be testing it out at TBC on the 28th for the first time. And to correct myself, auto append doesn't have anything to do with the 2GB split. It does that automatically.

[F.O.Bean]

wonder if its a truely seamless auto-split

getting psyched

and the 12v issue isnt as bad as ya'll think, 12v NIMH batt pakc s can be picked up at a decent price for high mah capacity(I think a 6000mah one is about 50 bucks)

[kevin p]

wonder if its a truely seamless auto-split

getting psyched

and the 12v issue isnt as bad as ya'll think, 12v NIMH batt pakc s can be picked up at a decent price for high mah capacity(I think a 6000mah one is about 50 bucks)

From the manual....

[F.O.Bean]

+T, Thanks!

[lynchie]

looks like I'm gonna buy one of these instead of the 722. Can't justify the $$$ for the 722
when I'll still be running my 148>V3 in front.

[F.O.Bean]

nother question:

How does one upgrade firmware/OS? thru a download or by sending in the units?

I know the marantz has to be sent in and thats not cool IMO, thats one of the drawbacks of the marantz versus this if firmware/updates can easily be done via firewire port

does anyone know what kind od mods doug has ideas about for this? wonder if he'll do flavors or just upgrade the pre section ala the dap-1, im guesing just upgrade the pre section w2/ lower self-noise/etc, rather than flavors ala the w/t/p mods

this thing IS tits and is gonna be purchased at tax return time

then im getting one of these so i can QUICKLY transfer my 4GB CF card in the field at festies, just throw in a 2.5" HD and roll, 80 GB should be PLENTY

http://www.eastgear.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=17_66&products_id=443

[L Ron Hoover]

Why don't you just get an MT Bean?

[F.O.Bean]

Why don't you just get an MT Bean?

 

maybe by the year 2010 they'll be stable enuf

[kevin p]

nother question:

How does one upgrade firmware/OS? thru a download or by sending in the units?

I know the marantz has to be sent in and thats not cool IMO, thats one of the drawbacks of the marantz versus this if firmware/updates can easily be done via firewire port

does anyone know what kind od mods doug has ideas about for this? wonder if he'll do flavors or just upgrade the pre section ala the dap-1, im guesing just upgrade the pre section w2/ lower self-noise/etc, rather than flavors ala the w/t/p mods

this thing IS tits and is gonna be purchased at tax return time

then im getting one of these so i can QUICKLY transfer my 4GB CF card in the field at festies, just throw in a 2.5" HD and roll, 80 GB should be PLENTY

http://www.eastgear.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=17_66&products_id=443

The update file is available on the Tascam website. The way I did it was just hook it up via firewire and simply drag the .bin file into the HD-P2 which shows up like an external drive using windows explorer. Then you scroll to the update menu on the unit after you disconnect it, and it detects the file and asks you if you want to update. It couldn't have been easier. You do need fire wire though, unless you have another way of getting the .bin file onto your CF card, which I'm sure there are. Firewire PCI cards are less than ten bucks if you don't have a fw port or card reader on your PC already.

[F.O.Bean]

oh, im covered, i have a combo card w/ firewire/usb 2.0 3 ports for each

[sygdwm]

I know the marantz has to be sent in and thats not cool IMO, thats one of the drawbacks of the marantz versus this if firmware/updates can easily be done via firewire port

i didnt have to send mine in fwiw. absolute flawless recording/transferring so far.

[twoodruff]

any updates from users of this box?

provide drew the details

[sygdwm]

provide drew the details

 

[fasteddy]

how about the build of this unit?


feels sturdy and fairly durable for field taping?

[CQBert]

Hey guys.... I got married last FRI and will not be back in the field with it for a week or so..   I ran a 722 prior and since it was a tank, in comparison, this feels light duty...  In reality - it is solid, light to carry (+/-) 2lbs with batteries.

All of my tests and my first trial in the field have left me happy...  the mod from Oade is not yet avaiable and I have not yet solved the 12v power issue but think I am close.

IMO you won't get much more if anything better for the $'s...  though I have not run a 671 or seen one out to compare with.

I will have more as I get to do more real world with it.

CQBert

[fasteddy]

well,

 congrats!

[spyder9]

Any links to some recordings with this box?  I'd like to hear how it sounds without a preamp out front of it.  Thanks!

[paulrennix]

Got mine today, Plan on using it friday, though l think I'll have it behind a pre.

Gave it a test run tonight in the living room recording solo mandolin, with and without a v3 in front of it.  Both sound nice. It seems really solid and easy to use. The firewire connection is cake - hook it up and it's a drive.

recording a stereo sine wave:
2448 recorded fine for 1 hour, and I stopped and moved on.
2496:(testing now)
24/192: <edit> failed at just over 13 minutes, due to buffer overrun on a hitachi 6 gb microdrive (note this was not approved media)

Saves instantly and ready to start again instantly. I'll post some files after the weekend.

[paulrennix]

note edit above

[CQBert]

My first run will be FRI at Derek Trucks...  Will try to at least get samples up soon... 

CQBert

[spyder9]

Thanks guys.  Looking forward to your pulls.

[joekar]

I'm testing mine at Jorma on Thursday in Trenton with some SP C4's.......No preamp....can't wait till Doug starts modding these....Maybe I can avoid spending 1400 for a V3...Peace

[paulrennix]

Firewire Report:

6 gigs took 50 minutes to transfer

[CQBert]

Thanks!

Let us know how it sounded... the room and the recording when you get free and I will do the same Sat or Sun.

CQBert

[sygdwm]

Firewire Report:

6 gigs took 50 minutes to transfer

is it it me, or is that waayy long. i get better time w/ usb and the 671. just sayin. 

[spyder9]

Firewire is better than USB, faster and more stable.  That's makes it so puzzling for me.

[spyder9]

Still,  I can't wait to hear this box.   

[paulrennix]

it may well be the 6g microdrive that is slow

I plugged it into a CF port on a brand new p4 pc and it took about the same.

I know this isn't too usefull, and the kid is at his grandparents tonight so I can't do one w/o the v3 in front till the weekend...

http://www.tapers.org/prennix/tests/marshall2003mod_v3_hdp22448.flac

its the kid playing mando 1.5 feet from marshall2003s w/royer mod (basically neuman guts) >v3>p2 @ 2448

[kgreener]

I'm testing mine at Jorma on Thursday in Trenton with some SP C4's.......No preamp....can't wait till Doug starts modding these....Maybe I can avoid spending 1400 for a V3...Peace

hey, any luck at Jorma last night?  i wanted to go but couldn't.  where did you setup on that small stage? 

thanks.

[spyder9]

Ditto.  How did your recording come out?

[spyder9]

Here's an interesting thread from mpeg3.org's forums.  I got lost in translation of all the technical babble.  But these got into it heavy on testing on the noise on this box.  Anybody who can decifier their words, I'd love to know.

http://www.mpeg3.org/about3258.html

[joekar]

It didn't really go all too well....I showed up at the place an hour before time to ask about taping since I had called the day before and was informed that they had a no taping policy....I asked the guy in the box office and he said he didn't think they were cool with mic stands...I asked about a monopod he said no....He said if I saw anybody else taping with mic stands --then it would be cool....Needless to say I was confused...SO ...I grabbed my stealth gear.........SP-A/T 943>top mount SP amp>MTracker..........Instead of mounting the mics in my SP "hat mount" hat I decided to clip them to my cane handle so I could look at Jorma instead of the speakers...(I sat 1st row far right ....in front of the stack)...The first show went well..then I found out they had a second show...the guy at the door gave me a free ticket and I went to the box office to buy another one for my son....THEN in the middle of the fourth tune someone pats me on the back...I turn to see who it is and it is Vanessa Kaukonen asking me who gave me permission to record....I said no one but I asked at the box office and he was not sure....she said "Take it down"...I said OK......and did so......During intermission I went up to her to apoligize and she told me to ask permission before taping ..I told her I was going to scratch at the window of the tour bus but I didn't think think that would be cool..She told me people were selling their shows so a few bad people messed it up for everyone...She introduced me to their tour manager...I have two more shows coming up ...one in March and one in May....The first one is Mexicalli Blues and the second one is at a farm benefit with a meet and greet afterwards.....I still upset over this incident....I feel like she thinks I am stealing something from them..I'm simply recording a great experience that I would like to remember for a long time to come...I would NEVER sell their music...I own almost everything they have for sale on their website and have loved Jorma's music since the 70's....I even keep my smoking blend in a Rythem Tonic Tea Tin (works great)...After the show some guy came up to me and tried to give me a twenty for a copy of the show...I said NO but I would send him a free copy...he said take the money for postage ...I told him No...I'll send you a copy of the show as soon as I have it ready no charge..........Its all about spreading the music ...NOT making a few bucks....I think I'm going to write Vanessa a nice letter expressing my view point and intentions and to ask for permission to tape in the future.........I'll probably only be able to walk for a year or two then after that I doubt I'll be able to make it to too many more shows....I would like to record a few to remember........in closing I just want to say that I'm sorry this turned into a rant instead of a review of the HD-P2 but unfortunately it did not get the chance to hear Jorma...Buy the way Jorma and Barry sounded great...the acoustics of the place were amazing,,,Jorma said he "wants to move there"......The entire interior of the theater acts like a speaker cabinet....The audience is seated on the stage and the performers are on a 4" riser with their backs to the theater.....I can't wait till next year...Jorma said he has already been invited back...I think this was the third year in a row...They also played a few tunes with Woody Mann....the presenter of the series and a teacher at Jorma's camp.....It was an incredible show until I had to unplug......I hope they put this show up on their hottunatunes.com web sit for sale...I asked the sound guy and he said he didn't know...My recording came out great (considering)...the soundboard must sound amazing.....Peace

[joekar]

Here'e a picture of Jorma and Barry from Trenton last night

[joekar]

........Sorry the picture is a little blurry...I used my 5mp pocket cam instead of an SLR.....Sorry I haven't figured out how to edit my post yet ........(OK I do now)........( Man ..I need glasses)

[spyder9]

Wow.  I was close to being shut out in Rochester last September too.  Had to wait for approval from Hot Tuna's manager 20 minutes before show time.  They're getting real sketchy about open taping since last year's issues. 

No biggie on the P2.  There is plenty of time to get that puppy out and runnin'.     Thanks for the effort.  +T

[paulrennix]

here's an example of A>D

this is new monson last saturday,

analog from the board into the p2 via the rca inputs @2448

www.tapers.org/prennix/tests/analogSDBD_to_hd-p2-2448.flac

[kgreener]

joekar, +t for your troubles, sorry you got shut down, that's definitely a bummer!  hang in there and don't let it get ya down, better days are ahead

[todd e]

i guess i am a bit confused, but were there 2 jorma shows (back-to-back) or an opener and then jorma?
sorry for your troubles, but it sounds like you at least didn't get the full brunt of jorma's wife (she could have kicked you out, i guess)

+T for trying it

[joekar]

There was an early show and a late show...one at 7:00 and one at 9:30.....I didn't know about the second show until the end of the first one.At first I thought she WAS going to throw me out............Then I spoke to her during intermission and apoligized again.......I'll tell you one thing........If I was Jorma I sure as hell would not want to piss her off......After all was said and done it seems like she does not likes taping.....I saw Tuna at Mt Tabor, Tabernacle in November and before the show some local guy came out and said no video taping but did NOT say anything about audio and there were several tapers at the rear (two or three mic stands flying)

And THANKS for the cable end info.....It took me about 30 seconds to reposition them.......I still need to massage the covers with the dremel and then they will fit like butter......

Peace

If you want to hear some HOT FUCKIN TUNA ......please visit hottunatunes.com...thank you....(my small peace offering)

[sleepypedro]

wow, it sure would be cool if we got back to talking about the Tascam HD-P2 again in this thread!   

[ford prefect]

I thought this was interesting, I wonder if the 671 does this.

No Fault Recording
The HD-P2 transparently closes and re-opens audio files every 1.5 seconds while recording. This ensures data safety in the event of power loss or other unpredictable occurrence during recording.

[paulrennix]

hmmm

I wonder if there is a setting for that.

I lost a file during testing by dropping power w/o batteries or shutting down properly.

[sygdwm]

I thought this was interesting, I wonder if the 671 does this.

No Fault Recording
The HD-P2 transparently closes and re-opens audio files every 1.5 seconds while recording. This ensures data safety in the event of power loss or other unpredictable occurrence during recording.

i dont think it does., but i have never lost power. i did one test just running the batts out and it saved the file before it shut itself down.

[joekar]

Sorry about the hijack........Peace

[spyder9]

here's an example of A>D

this is new monson last saturday,

analog from the board into the p2 via the rca inputs @2448

www.tapers.org/prennix/tests/analogSDBD_to_hd-p2-2448.flac

Nice job Paul.  That sounds really nice.  Thank you.

[ford prefect]

Posted to the Oade board today by Doug:


I am only willing to comment on build/parts quality at this time and let me put it this way. I have had some time to examine the PCBs and parts of the HD-P2, it is made in China and looks it , the PMD671 is made in Japan and looks it...Doug

http://www.cirrus.com/en/press/releases/P345.html
http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/pro/detail/P1045.html

[pippas]

 I can sort of guess what Doug is suggesting --- problem is that I have 2 digital audio recorders -- a minidisc made in Japan, and a flash recorder made in China --- guess which one gives me problems?
 I do believe that the quality out of China can actually be not bad these days.
I'm still saving for an HD P2 at the moment -- not a lot of reviews out yet, but what there are seem pretty positive so far!

[joekar]

Hello...
    I've done some run time tests with different power options.....just recording the tv.....I have been using SP C4's ......ToddR cables into the HD-P2....No preamp..Phantom power ON....24/48....Headphone OFF...First I tried a 12V 4500mAh  laptop battery from Battery Space with NO batteries in the HD-P2 and got  roughly 12.5 hours and 12.5 gigs.....Then I tried my 12V power Runner (the big one) and got roughly 5 hours......Then I tried some 2300mAh AA batteries and got 4.5 hours.......Hope this helps...Peace,,

ps...Hey Doug , put me on the list for the mod,,,let me know...thanks.......Peace


Oh Yeah....Kingston 4GB Elite Pro 45X..

[dueling]

I just ordered the HD-P2 today.  I'm going to be running it off of my EcoCharge EC90 dual output battery, 6v to the V3, and 12v to the HD-P2.  I'll post my run times here after some testing.  I went ahead and purchased these two CF cards... should I be ok at 24/48 and 24/96 with both of these?

Sandisk 2GB Ultra II 60X Compact Flash Card
Sandisk Extreme III 4GB Compact Flash Card

I'm also thinking about grabbing an OTG drive... any suggestions as to what one to get?