Topic: Olympus LS-10 Recorder

[gearscout]

Really interesting:  Talked with an Olympus engineer a few days ago.  The LS-10's mic preamps are made by the very same company that makes the Sony PCM-D50 pre-amps.

[jboyzh]

I've got the LS-10 for some days now, and like to share my first impressions:

The device is very nicely built, and it's super easy to use with the big rec button and red LED light when recording (can be switched off). After some 15 minutes, I went through the menus and they're easily understandable even without manual.

After having used the microtrack, I'm overwhelmed by the LS-10. I think the LS-10 just sounds great, has extremely sensitive internal mics, and quite low noise (IMO, but can't compare to the D50...).

The volume- and rec-level dials still work when on hold, but they are quite hard to move so that this doesn't matter to me at all.

My only two, rather small complaints are the not so very high maximum phone level, and the 2GB WAV-file limit (mp3s are 4GB). Interestingly, the manual sais the file limit for all files was 4GB, so one can hope this will be corrected with a firmware update. Other than that, I'm very happy having bought this one as a successor to the MT.

This is a damn nice toy :-)

[IanR]

I have had my LS-10 for a couple of days now. It is a very nicely made machine, but there is one problem: the Line-in doesn't work at well with external mics and pre-amp.

I made some recordings using Sonic Studios DSM6S-EH mics and a Sonic Studios PA-3SX preamp, plugged into the LS-10's Line-in. With two other recorders, a Nagra Ares M and a Zoom H2, this set-up has worked fine. Not so with the Olympus.

Although those mics are sensitive, and the PA-3SX was set to maximum gain, *and* the LS-10's rec level wheel was set to maximum, the sound levels recorded were still very low. This is really disappointing, as in other regards the LS-10 seems a well-thought-out bit of kit.

Reading the specs in the manual shows Line-in to have an impedance of 78k-Ohm. I have no technical expertise but from memory some other recorder specs have Line-in impedances of around 20k-Ohm. Maybe this is something to with the problem.

[merrycinemax]

LS-10's EIN is tested to be -121 dBu (A) according to
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
The PCM-D50 is claimed to have EIN comparible to fr-2le.
Therefore, -129 dBu (A) would be a reference.
However, unless you use dynamic mics, there would be difference regarding to the EIN of the two preamps. Otherwise, the system would mostly be dominated by the self-noise of the condenser mics.
More information can be found in
http://www.rane.com/note148.html

[IanR]

Emailed Olympus about the very low Line-in sensitivity. The reply basically said, "It's made that way, there's nothing you can do about it."

Have tried plugging the external mics and external pre-amp into the Mic socket and using the lowest settings, but the results aren't good that way either. Will probably try to sell the machine and get a Marantz PMD 620 or the new upgraded Edirol R-09.

[Ozpeter]

the sound levels recorded were still very low

As a matter of interest, how low is low?  What did the recording actually peak to?

[IanR]

I managed to push the levels to a mighty -12dB by shouting loudly into the mics from a distance of about 3 feet  That's with everything set to maximum on pre-amp and recorder.

But the low Line-in sensitivity aside, the LS-10 is good in other ways, so it'll be a shame to have to sell it.

[spyder9]

I don't recommend this recorder at all...... unless you're using it for what it was intended:  ENG. 

Even so, the Olympus is extremely noisy and very thin sounding.  Check out the www.wingfieldaudio.com samples.  These samples reflect the tonal quality your sound will reflect with a particular recorder.   

[kamikaze]

What do you recommend then because I'm eyeing this recorder?  As per avisoft.com this recorder has a nice -121 dBu (A weighted) EIN.  I was trying to decide between this recorder and R-09HR but I don't know R-09HR's EIN.  So I'm sticking to this recorder.  Just waiting for the price to drop down a little bit.

[spyder9]

Get an R09 or wait for the new R09HR.  Either is head n' shoulders above this recorder as far as sound quality.  Forget about the stats and go with what you hear. 

[Outrageous]

Emailed Olympus about the very low Line-in sensitivity. The reply basically said, "It's made that way, there's nothing you can do about it."

The line-in specs for the ls-10 seem to be reasonable, and I don't think the impedence is the problem.  All I can think is that your particular ls-10 is defective, unless something has gone wrong with your mics or preamp.  Can you try it with another input?

[jboyzh]

@IanR: Sorry to hear about your negative experience with your equipment. Especially that also trying with the mic-in set to low didn't help either. What was the problem when going that way?

With my LS-10, I can only partly confirm this. As for input levels, yes the line-in is adjustable from quiet to just normal level, but if I want to rec really low line-levels, I can change to mic-in set to low which works very well here. Having this combined line-in range is more than sufficient for my needs.

@spyder9: What do you base "very noisy and thin sounding" on?

I already recorded two live classical concertos and did some experimental outside recordings. With "low-cut" set off, I find the sound to be natural, and completely with enough bass. As for the noise, I only notice it when mic-sense is set to high, but still all my earlier mini-disc recorders and the MT had much higher noise levels, so the LS-10 produces the least noise of all devices I've ever owned.

Best portability, and long-time mp3 recordings (@256mbps) are also important to me, that's why I didn't go for the D50. For my ears, the LS-10 records more than good, but maybe that's from someone who still used tape in his younger days :-)

My only small two complaints: The maximum output level is not extremely high, I'd appreciate if it went a little higher. And I hope the 2GB file limit for WAV (mp3s are 4GB strangely) will be corrected, even more as the manual states a 4GB limit for all files.

[prof_peabody]

Two things:

1. R-09 is a solid performer, based on what I've seen and heard of the LS-10, I'd recommend the R-09.

2. WAV has a 2 GB file limitation.  WAV files larger than 2 GB are non-standard (though many apps will handle them now).  The 4 GB limit is based on the file system (in this case FAT32)

[aaronji]

2. WAV has a 2 GB file limitation.  WAV files larger than 2 GB are non-standard (though many apps will handle them now).  The 4 GB limit is based on the file system (in this case FAT32)

I think the file limit is actually 4 GB.  According to the wikipedia:

The WAV format is limited to files that are less than 4 GB in size, due to its use of a 32 bit unsigned integer to record the file size header (some programs limit the file size to 2-4 GB).

EDIT:  For what it's worth, my recorder will record 4 GB files.  At first, I was just running one file for a long show but now I break it into two at the set break or between songs.  The huge files are pretty cumbersome to deal with, at least on my middling laptop.

[IanR]

The line-in specs for the ls-10 seem to be reasonable, and I don't think the impedence is the problem.  All I can think is that your particular ls-10 is defective, unless something has gone wrong with your mics or preamp.  Can you try it with another input?

Hi there, I have tried my mic and pre-amp with three other recorders borrowed from work: a Nagra Ares M, a Marantz PMD 620 and (very briefly) a Zoom H2. They all worked fine. It could be that my particular LS-10 is defective but some of the reviews and comments on the Amazon.com pages for the LS-10 describe similar problems (should have read them before buying eh  ). Would be good to try and compare results with another LS-10 though.

jboyzh: Thanks for your comments. Using the Mic socket is less than ideal as I can't plug my mics straight into the LS-10. They terminate in a mini-XLR and there are powering issues specific to DSM mics. So they have to go via the external pre-amp anyway. The result is over-sensitivity and an unacceptable amount of hiss.

However, recorded an interview last night using the LS-10's internal mics and the result sounded good. The machine's build quality, battery life, ergonomics and combination of 2Gb internal memory and SD card slot are all excellent too.



". . . and how long have you been a treefrog?"