Topic: How to make a bootleg...without even trying

[macroint]

Several weeks ago I wrote the management of Amp Fiddler to find out if he had a favorable policy towards tapers (he used to be in PFunk, so I figured he might be similarly cool)...but I received no response. I checked Amp's website, but there was nothing. There's a link to a Message Board on his site and I posted my query there (his management runs the board)...got a response from someone who thought he "should" have a favorable policy, but nothing else. I checked a few other forums, posting my query here and there...nothing.

The night of the show (this past Monday) I went to the venue and asked the sound guy for the venue if he'd do me a favor and ask Amp or his entourage if it was ok for me to tape. The person he asked was the sound guy for the band. He said it was fine. I went upstairs to set up my gear and couldn't find a suitable spot, so I was gonna leave. But I decided to take a shot and asked their sound guy if I could tape from the stage...he looked at my rig and said it was cool.

After Amp's set, I was packing up my gear (with no intention of taping the headliner Rapahel "Ray Ray" Saadiq from some band called Toni, Tone, Tony...or something) and some one from Raphael's crew started giving me shit and telling me I couldn't tape. I told him I got permission from the sound guy to tape Amp and had no intention of taping Raphael, so he left me alone.

When I got home, I posted an offer to send a copy of the show to people on the Amp Fiddler message board (my way of thanking the band for letting me tape)...sort of like a B&P offer, except that I just wanted people to send the correct postage (and postage only, no cash) and I'd send the disc free. The next day (yesterday), that message was pulled from the board and the board admin sent me a note letting me know that Amp's management was pissed that I taped the show without authorization.

This morning, I received the following e-mail from Amp's management....I wrote back letting them know I'd be happy to send a copy of the show (I try to send bands I tape a copy anyway) but I wasn't going to part with the master. Just wondering where I might stand on the issue of getting permission to tape from someone who wasn't authorized to give that permission (though I didn't know that):


Hi Jeffrey,

This has just come through from our Forum administrator. I'm not quite sure
what the confusion has been, but as we have had no advance warning received
for the request to tape the show, we could not give approval and the
engineer was wrong to allow this recording to happen. Our forum
administrator has passed on your posting offering people copies of the shows
which was not agreed and will not be agreed to. You have no juristiction
whatsoever to offer someone elses material for sale without at first
offering them some kind of deal memo. This is why your message was taken
down. If Amp's label catches anyone selling or distributing illegal show
copies then they will take legal action.

I would suggest that as we have not authorised this recording with you, you
kindly send us the original copy and do not keep any for personal use or
otherwise.

Most artists will not allow any kind of recording whatsoever unless it is
for specific purposes to promote them, and not for someone elses personal
gain.

If any further messages are posted on the Forum making such offers we will
be forced to take them down.

Kind regards

[Brian]

that's weird, what bunch of idiots.

however if i remember correctly from my media law class, the band does reserve the right to have the master DAT. 

[pfife]

Personally, I'd ignore it for a little while and see if they persist.  Did you tape this with something with a physical tape/disc?  Make a copy of it, and send it to them as if it were the original...

that sucks dog

[macroint]

that's weird, what bunch of idiots.
however if i remember correctly from my media law class, the band does reserve the right to have the master DAT. 

  But in the age of the NJB3, getting the master is useless since I'd still have it.

[Brian]

that's weird, what bunch of idiots.
however if i remember correctly from my media law class, the band does reserve the right to have the master DAT. 

  But in the age of the NJB3, getting the master is useless since I'd still have it.

so just send them a copy of the show after you transfer it to your computer's hard drive and be done with the situation.

[The Kilted Taper]

They won't know that though...

I think a) you should fwd them a copy of the email you sent several weeks ago asking about the policy b) remind him that you were not selling these discs, just asking for return postage (not even blanks, just postage). c) enlighten him that hundreds (if not 1000's) of bands allow open taping where he claims most would never allow it. Be nice and civil about it. You were under the impression it was allowed, as you did ask and were given the OK.

[gewwang]

as we have had no advance warning received
for the request to tape the show, we could not give approval and the
engineer was wrong to allow this recording to happen. Our forum
administrator has passed on your posting offering people copies of the shows
which was not agreed and will not be agreed to. You have no juristiction
whatsoever to offer someone elses material for sale without at first
offering them some kind of deal memo. This is why your message was taken
down. If Amp's label catches anyone selling or distributing illegal show
copies then they will take legal action.

So are they saying that they would have allowed you to tape and distribute if they had gotten advance warning?

Most artists will not allow any kind of recording whatsoever unless it is
for specific purposes to promote them, and not for someone elses personal
gain.

Why not write them back and educate them on the fact that taping and distributing your tape is specifically promoting them and not so much for personal gain other than having a copy of the show for personal use.

[JAH]

Why not write them back and educate them on the fact that taping and distributing your tape is specifically promoting them and not so much for personal gain other than having a copy of the show for personal use.

yes archival purposes and not for commercial use.  and all the stuff Born Again wrote.  Make note that trading (TRADING) music helps spread the word of what a great band they are and other's will want to see them next time they are in town....meaning more ticket sales!


jah

[Tim]

They won't know that though...

I think a) you should fwd them a copy of the email you sent several weeks ago asking about the policy b) remind him that you were not selling these discs, just asking for return postage (not even blanks, just postage). c) enlighten him that hundreds (if not 1000's) of bands allow open taping where he claims most would never allow it. Be nice and civil about it. You were under the impression it was allowed, as you did ask and were given the OK.

well said...

[dnsacks]

seems their biggest beef is that you're "profiting" from the distribution of these recordings.  I'd try to make it clear that this simply isn't true, and that you're actually losing money on each copy you send out (as the requestor is merely reimbursing you for postage and you're eating the cost of the physical media).  I'd also emphasize that you're taking on this "noble act" to help turn others on to their music and thus increase their ticket and music sales (i.e. help their bottom line).   I think they view you as a parasite trying to profit off of their performance/intellectual property.  If you spin your reply to show that this couldn't be farther from the truth, you could win them over.  Good luck

[macroint]

seems their biggest beef is that you're "profiting" from the distribution of these recordings.  I'd try to make it clear that this simply isn't true, and that you're actually losing money on each copy you send out (as the requestor is merely reimbursing you for postage and you're eating the cost of the physical media).  I'd also emphasize that you're taking on this "noble act" to help turn others on to their music and thus increase their ticket and music sales (i.e. help their bottom line). 

  The guy who writes me doesn't give a rat's ass about turning people onto the music...and unless someone does a study that shows that trading has (or doesn't) a positive impact of official album sales/concert revenue, I doubt many people would agree.

  From the latest e-mail I received, it appears that Amp Fiddler plans on releasing a live album in 2005 and they think my live recording will eat into their profits...my recording is good, but it ain't good enough to compete with a studio produced live album. I wonder if the opposition is coming strictly from management...I just don't see Amp being this way.

[Tim]

I'm sure Amp has no idea.....

[silverbullet]

that's weird, what bunch of idiots.

however if i remember correctly from my media law class, the band does reserve the right to have the master DAT. 

Damn, that's like saying to my wedding photographer that I reserve the right to own the negatives of all the photos shot on my wedding day. Which is just never the case as far as I know. I don't know any photographers that give up their negatives. Why should tapers give up master tapes?

oh well Just send them a clone 

[The Kilted Taper]

that's weird, what bunch of idiots.

however if i remember correctly from my media law class, the band does reserve the right to have the master DAT. 

Damn, that's like saying to my wedding photographer that I reserve the right to own the negatives of all the photos shot on my wedding day. Which is just never the case as far as I know. I don't know any photographers that give up their negatives. Why should tapers give up master tapes?

oh well Just send them a clone 

Really?? The photographer at my wedding gave us all the negatives. It was part of the deal. Feel bad because we never ordered any prints, but he made 3x5's of everything and gave us the negatives.

[macroint]

Really?? The photographer at my wedding gave us all the negatives. It was part of the deal. Feel bad because we never ordered any prints, but he made 3x5's of everything and gave us the negatives.

  The photog at my wedding said he'd hang onto the negatives for five years and then if we wanted, we could buy them from him. Fortunately we found a way to save paying him: we got divorced.