Topic: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 3)

[mattmiller]

the 8 gb will do the trick, i say newegg.com has teh best deals

I've found that Amazon is often cheaper than Newegg.  Newegg's search function is far superior, and I trust the reviews more.  Conversely, Amazon's search function is horrible.  So I always use Newegg to find the product I want, and then copy and paste the product number into Amazon and often save money that way.

The only problem with that thinking about Amazon is how many products are sold on Amazon but not actually by Amazon.   Lots and lots of reliable and unreliable sellers on Amazon.   Two friends purchased what turned out to be counterfeit CF cards from different sellers on Amazon and both got the big 'f' you from Amazon customer support since it turned out both were from people using Amazon as a store front and the sale was not actually by Amazon.

I occasionally purchase from well-reviewed Marketplace vendors.  But I was referring to items actually for sale by Amazon -- they're often cheaper, and shipping is always free over $25.

[ArchivalAudio]

Anyone using these ever have issues - crackles or bad conections with the 1/8 line in?
I ask cause I used to run a sony WM d6C and I swear that dam 1/8 jack cause tons of issues and swore I'd never get one agin- then I did it and got a TCD-D7 DAT same occasionl issues... I gues at least this has no (micro) moving parts like the previous pint sized decks did...

any input on how to avoid strain or unplugging the 1/8 in  --- I know I'd make some right angle mini plug cables but other ideas?

thanx
--Ian

[Artstar]

Never had a single issue with any 1/8" phono plugs. The majority of crackles and whatnot stem from dirty contacts. In which case, a little isopropyl alcohol or even methylated spirits on a lint free cloth rubbed onto the contacts before every use is the best method of avoiding these issues. Naturally, reducing mechanical strain is advisable too and a right angled plug is very good for its low profile making it less susceptible to undue mechanical stresses thanks to some fool bumping something into your rig. The other benefit that may arise from using a right angled plug is how the cable then travels from that point (ie. avoiding any pulling around bends causing kinks)

I use right angled plugs on my rig for that express reason though having said that, I got away with a straight plug on my 12 year old CSB omni's for almost 11 years before the wire in one of the mics fractured internally which had a lot to do with how I'd string the cable on myself irrespective of how careful I was. I've since changed it to a right angled plug and I'm sure I'll get the same longevity at the very least.

That still doesn't absolve you from the one most critical thing ... cleanliness. Clean your plug with every use as described earlier and you'll enjoy at least one good decade of trouble-free recording as I have.

[ArchivalAudio]

^^^ yes cleanliness- I always clean plugs connectors and pots (volume pots) but over the years i have had thee 1/8 plugs come unplugged - and or lose one channel briefly - leading to "mic farts" or pops that are unfavorable...
thanx for the positive report...
I like locking plugs for the previous stated reasons - either XLR or min XLR - heck even standard rca's don't twist  when moved around - keeping the postive connection
I have been recording live music for over 24 years... and have had successes and failures
--Ian

[ArchivalAudio]

Hot glue it in.

Now that's a great idea!   

[illconditioned]

What I do is put a right-angle plug in the unit, then about 6" of wire to a female minijack.


I made one of these from a hardwired right angle plug (from a set of AT829 mics), just cut it and added a jack.


You could probably get Chris Church to make you a cable like this.


Oh yeah, you could glue-tape that thing to the Sony case if you like


  Richard

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Just be sure and use a really tiny RA plug, that does not have a stiffly reinforced tail that will torque on the jack...  You could either use a pre-molded one, or custom make one.

In the future, breaking the hot glue shouldn't be too difficult.

I have a sound pros bat box that I ordered with a female pigtail rather than a female jack.  I did it that way because I wanted it to be smaller in the pocket, especially when using straight plugs.    But... the gotcha is.. The female pigtail doesn't rigidly hold the jack.  It makes decent contact, but you can rock it and compromise the connection.  So that in itself is not a "belt and suspenders" solution.  Though I never had issues with it.

[ArchivalAudio]

What I do is put a right-angle plug in the unit, then about 6" of wire to a female minijack.


I made one of these from a hardwired right angle plug (from a set of AT829 mics), just cut it and added a jack.


You could probably get Chris Church to make you a cable like this.


Oh yeah, you could glue-tape that thing to the Sony case if you like


  Richard

thanx
I think I could easily make one of these but I'd then put a mini XLR on the end of the cable to ensure a locking connection. As the small 1/8 plugs twist and in my experience that is where connection issues occur.
Hot glue can be removed -but I'd hate to glue it  to a brand new unit... I can easily make a custom right angle plug.

--Ian

[Artstar]

1.) Running at 24/44.1 how many record hours can I expect to get?
2.) As far as setting levels, what helpful tips are there?  I am used to setting DAT levels, to peak at "0".  I understand you can boost levels post production, but where should I set (Pre set?) them?
3.) Any other general helpful tips for a newbee with the M-10 on a maiden voyage?

1) Approximately 4 hours with the internal 4GB memory. About 3 hours if you record 48kHz/24bit (my preference). Buy a 16GB micro SD like I did and you'll have plenty of recording space, even if you wanted to go nuts with the resolution! I'm actually going experimental because of this and making a live recording at the full 96kHz/24bit resolution this weekend. The results should be interesting.
2) Which is all well and good if you know your sources are running at fixed levels and will not exceed their existing peak outputs. However, in a live environment, it's best to record more conservatively. I prefer to record with levels peaking at -12dBFS. This means I have 12dB of headroom in case a loud burst should appear. That way, I can tame the loud burst as necessary and still maintain a clean signal because it wasn't recorded with any distortion. The rule is: You can always dial in more gain but you can't dial out distortion.
3) Switch limiters and filters off, record at conservative levels and leave the rest to your post-production processing. Don't forget to enjoy the show in the meantime!

[morst]

I've been running the M10 with the limiter ON, and I'm not sure it's not great. My buddy assured me that the sony limiter is worth using, and we checked the M10 manual. On page 81, it says "The limiter circuit of the PCM recorder does not compensate for clipping when audio over 12 dB is input. In this case, sound may be distorted.

So we figure that we essentially get 12dB additional gain before clip when we use the limiter. That's pretty faching cool! Of course I prefer not to clip, but I also like recordings with hot levels. The limiter is pretty much a win-win for me. If anyone has any stories or experiences to share regarding the limiter, I'd love to learn more.

3) Switch limiters and filters off

[Geissler]

I think the logic behind not using the limiter is that there's no guarantee that the final audio won't be distorted in some way by the limiter, even if it does work well most of the time. It's much safer to record with conservative levels. That said, I'm keeping the limiter on because it WILL save your ass if you screw up and set the levels too high.

I'm guessing your preference for recording hot is because you grew up with analogue equipment, but it makes absolutely no sense with digital. All you're achieving by recording too hot is a clipped signal.

[Artstar]

On page 81, it says "The limiter circuit of the PCM recorder does not compensate for clipping when audio over 12 dB is input. In this case, sound may be distorted.

So we figure that we essentially get 12dB additional gain before clip when we use the limiter.

That's incorrect. You do not get 12dB additional gain.

What you do get, however, is 12dB less dynamic range in your recording because you've just put in a massive brickwall which can potentially make your recording sound like Metallica's "Death Magnetic" album. The "pumping" effect the audio then gets as a consequence will make it sound just as bad as experiencing distortion but in a different way. This is precisely why you record conservatively so that you don't risk having a master recording that you can't fix because you messed it up with excessive dynamic compression and/or distortion. That's why by recording with your peaks at -12dBFS, you have bought yourself 12dB of headroom which should be plenty if the sound guy makes a horrible mistake (and they often do, the dopes!).

As Geissler said, you probably prefer hot recordings due to your exposure to analogue gear but digital is not as forgiving as analogue. At any rate, if it works for you then all the power to you but I strongly recommend against it.

[fmaderjr]

I leave the limiter on as a safety valve, but try to set levels conservatively enough so that it does not engage. Seems to be the best of both world to me.

[Cheesecadet]

I leave the limiter on as a safety valve, but try to set levels conservatively enough so that it does not engage. Seems to be the best of both world to me.

I do the same as a safety measure only

[Bootleg Detroit]

1.) Running at 24/44.1 how many record hours can I expect to get?
2.) As far as setting levels, what helpful tips are there?  I am used to setting DAT levels, to peak at "0".  I understand you can boost levels post production, but where should I set (Pre set?) them?
3.) Any other general helpful tips for a newbee with the M-10 on a maiden voyage?

1) Approximately 4 hours with the internal 4GB memory. About 3 hours if you record 48kHz/24bit (my preference). Buy a 16GB micro SD like I did and you'll have plenty of recording space, even if you wanted to go nuts with the resolution! I'm actually going experimental because of this and making a live recording at the full 96kHz/24bit resolution this weekend. The results should be interesting.
2) Which is all well and good if you know your sources are running at fixed levels and will not exceed their existing peak outputs. However, in a live environment, it's best to record more conservatively. I prefer to record with levels peaking at -12dBFS. This means I have 12dB of headroom in case a loud burst should appear. That way, I can tame the loud burst as necessary and still maintain a clean signal because it wasn't recorded with any distortion. The rule is: You can always dial in more gain but you can't dial out distortion.
3) Switch limiters and filters off, record at conservative levels and leave the rest to your post-production processing. Don't forget to enjoy the show in the meantime!

Got it, CONSERVATIVE on the levels.  That's a big switch for me, as I was used to running HOT analog levels and DAT too for that matter, trying to peak at zero. 

Does anyone have experience running the M-10 with DSM's?  I'm assuming LINE in and sensitivity to LOW??

For a Prine show, 13th row ctr. Any guesstimates where I might initially and or PRE set levels at?  What number on the dial??

Thanks in advance!

Alan