Topic: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)

[George2]

When I listen to the mic input on these tests the M-10 sounds good, but the line input sounds noticeably
lacking:
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples

These tests are worthless for music tapers. What good to music tapers is a test which records a few spoken words?

Well, I disagree with that....., but that's the good thing about choice.

[cashandkerouac]

100 shows a year ? Do you work for bands or something ?

I should have said bands, not events.... openers and headliners... and festivals can hit 10 or more per show.

I am just addicted to music.  I have not really hit summer yet and I am around 35 or 40 bands with some 15 more shows with tickets coming up and numerous free shows with 2 openers and a headliner

last year i did 113 shows.  tonight will be show #76 of 2012.   i just can't get enough live music, and the M10 is a total workhorse! 

[aaronji]

When I listen to the mic input on these tests the M-10 sounds good, but the line input sounds noticeably
lacking:
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples

These tests are worthless for music tapers. What good to music tapers is a test which records a few spoken words?

Well, I disagree with that....., but that's the good thing about choice.

Choice is definitely good, but those tests are worthless...No information about how they did them, really.  Not even a hint about recorder settings, powering, or general test conditions.  The line sample is through a mixer, which presumably is powering the mics too.  The mic sample is through a splitter (with power source unknown).  No way to draw any valid conclusions from that, I think...

[Ekib]

100 shows a year ? Do you work for bands or something ?

I should have said bands, not events.... openers and headliners... and festivals can hit 10 or more per show.

I am just addicted to music.  I have not really hit summer yet and I am around 35 or 40 bands with some 15 more shows with tickets coming up and numerous free shows with 2 openers and a headliner

That's still a lot . As much as I love going to shows , work obligations prevents me from going to quite a few shows . Unfortunate ...
I still get to go to about 30 shows a year I guess . At least that way I can still listen to stuff I record !

[Ekib]

100 shows a year ? Do you work for bands or something ?

I should have said bands, not events.... openers and headliners... and festivals can hit 10 or more per show.

I am just addicted to music.  I have not really hit summer yet and I am around 35 or 40 bands with some 15 more shows with tickets coming up and numerous free shows with 2 openers and a headliner

I hope ayou ( and the other guys who responded earlier in this thread ) have a good set of earplugs !!

last year i did 113 shows.  tonight will be show #76 of 2012.   i just can't get enough live music, and the M10 is a total workhorse!

[Ekib]

So far I made it halfway to the threads . Now is there a seperate thread concerning matters like copying the tracks from the PCM to the computer .
There are a few things I'd like to know , like is there a difference in using the right cable uploading ? Does it matter ? ( I use a quality cable ).

More so , if I copy a file I can only upload the complete file . Even when I made trackmarks I can only upload the complete file . I usually start recording whenever I enter the venue. I would like to delete all the unnecessary files. Now I know I could do this with WAVE EDITOR or something comparable . But isn't this a compromise for the quality ?
I know I could delete it on the PCM M10 itself . But I find this a risk .

I know there must be a seperate thread . I just can't find it ( I think someone mentioned it ).

[JM Charcot]

here's a comparative post on various recorders at the Naturerecordists group :

I performed a test of some of my recorders (Sony M10, D50, Olympus LS7, Roland
R05 Zoom H1) to compare their internal mics on a passerine bird singer, the
Blackcap, very widespread here in Europe.
A simultaneous recording was obtained with all five recorders; the levels were
set to have almost the same level on all recorders; fine tuning of levels in
post production was required only for the Roland R05 (+3db) and the Zoom H1
(+6db).
The Olympus Ls 7 was enabled for all its three microphones (the two side
cardioids and the central one omnidirectional).
Here the youtube link to the Movie file
http://youtu.be/o3HCdmTujAU
and here the Soundcloud link to the WAV file
http://soundcloud.com/marco-pesente/blackcap-m10-d50-ls7-r05-h1

Marco Pesente

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/message/48103

[vanark]

So far I made it halfway to the threads . Now is there a seperate thread concerning matters like copying the tracks from the PCM to the computer .
There are a few things I'd like to know , like is there a difference in using the right cable uploading ? Does it matter ? ( I use a quality cable ).

More so , if I copy a file I can only upload the complete file . Even when I made trackmarks I can only upload the complete file . I usually start recording whenever I enter the venue. I would like to delete all the unnecessary files. Now I know I could do this with WAVE EDITOR or something comparable . But isn't this a compromise for the quality ?
I know I could delete it on the PCM M10 itself . But I find this a risk .

I know there must be a seperate thread . I just can't find it ( I think someone mentioned it ).

Just copy the complete file and edit it later.  Don't edit the file on the M-10 - edit it on the computer.

If you are concerned about the file getting copying with an error, create a checksum first and copy both the file and checksum and then verify the checksum after  you have copied it.

If you record to the microSD, it is faster to remove the SD card and use and SD card reader rather than copying directly from the M-10.

I can't imagine what else might be in a "thread" about copying files off the M-10.

[Ozpeter]

here's a comparative post on various recorders at the Naturerecordists group :

I'm surprised that this comparison hasn't given rise to any comment on that group.  I found it extremely interesting.  I've listened repeatedly using headphones.

Things I notice -

- The M10's poor stereo image makes it virtually impossible to make out the very distant singing of the blackbird (??) to the left of the soundstage.
- The D50 isn't much better in terms of stereo image but sounds rather thinner (less at the bottom)
- In the LS7 segment you now hear that blackbird to the left and there's more low frequencies, though the You Tube spectral display seems to show more noise
- The R05 is perhaps inferior to the LS7 and again the spectral display seems to show noise
- The Zoom H1 has a good stereo image and considerably more energy in the very lowest frequencies, though this could be slight wind noise, and the spectral display implies that it has no more noise than the Sony recorders.

Overall, with caveat that it seems to be more prone to wind noise, the humble H1 seems to come out very well in this test in terms of bang for buck.

[H₂O]

here's a comparative post on various recorders at the Naturerecordists group :

I'm surprised that this comparison hasn't given rise to any comment on that group.  I found it extremely interesting.  I've listened repeatedly using headphones.

Things I notice -

- The M10's poor stereo image makes it virtually impossible to make out the very distant singing of the blackbird (??) to the left of the soundstage.
- The D50 isn't much better in terms of stereo image but sounds rather thinner (less at the bottom)
- In the LS7 segment you now hear that blackbird to the left and there's more low frequencies, though the You Tube spectral display seems to show more noise
- The R05 is perhaps inferior to the LS7 and again the spectral display seems to show noise
- The Zoom H1 has a good stereo image and considerably more energy in the very lowest frequencies, though this could be slight wind noise, and the spectral display implies that it has no more noise than the Sony recorders.

Overall, with caveat that it seems to be more prone to wind noise, the humble H1 seems to come out very well in this test in terms of bang for buck.

Obviously these are all based using the internal mics - which I would never use on any recorder - esp in a low noise environment such as environmental/nature recording!

I think it's pretty well known the Sony's use omni's so of course the H1 would edge it out in that comparison when comparing stereo image.
 

[earmonger]

More so , if I copy a file I can only upload the complete file . Even when I made trackmarks I can only upload the complete file . I usually start recording whenever I enter the venue.

In the PCM-M10 menu there is a Divide function. That will divide your recording at the track marks. If your recording was 120615_01.wav you will get separate files: 120615_01_01.wav,  120615_01_02.wav, etc. You can then upload individual files.  There is a limit of 100 files per folder, so try to start a show in an empty folder.

As for editing on the unit, I often push the track button during applause. If I've pushed it at the wrong time, then before I Divide the concert, the Delete function in Menu will delete one track mark (the nearest previous one in the file you are playing) or all of them. So you can Delete the bad track mark and put it in the right place on the unit--I sometimes do this on the subway home after the gig...

I don't see any problem with track-marking on the unit at obvious moments during a show. You do have to listen for when the last note of a song actually dies out, which is often well into the applause.

------------------

About taking out the microSD....someone did a test and found that the PCM-M10 is slower than a card reader but not by much. So you might weigh whether you want to create wear and tear on the door and slot of the PCM-M10, or wait a little longer for the upload. And by the way, the cable shouldn't matter as long as it connects. You're transmitting ones and zeros, not an analog signal.

[cashandkerouac]

i always just transfer the files from the M10 to the computer as soon as i get home from a show.  it's not fast, but it's not horribly slow (10-20 minutes depending in the length of the show).  yes i wish it were faster, but i've adjusted to it.   

[ArchivalAudio]

So far I made it halfway to the threads . Now is there a seperate thread concerning matters like copying the tracks from the PCM to the computer .
There are a few things I'd like to know , like is there a difference in using the right cable uploading ? Does it matter ? ( I use a quality cable ).

More so , if I copy a file I can only upload the complete file . Even when I made trackmarks I can only upload the complete file . I usually start recording whenever I enter the venue. I would like to delete all the unnecessary files. Now I know I could do this with WAVE EDITOR or something comparable . But isn't this a compromise for the quality ?
I know I could delete it on the PCM M10 itself . But I find this a risk .

I know there must be a seperate thread . I just can't find it ( I think someone mentioned it ).

Most new computers today have a built in card reader slot at least a SD card reader. Use the microsd to Sd card adapter. If yours doesn't got to office depot, staples or bestbuy or some other local place and for like $10 to $15 you can get a usb card reader.
Transferring files from the card via card reader is like 10x faster then plugging in your M-10  a one hour 24/48 show transferred via my card reader in the side of my I mac takes about 1 to 2 minutes.

Always save your raw file and save as another title using the Etree naming standards. then edit away Audacity is free and works fine.
have fun read other computer threads.

[gmm6797]

...go to office depot, staples or bestbuy or some other local place and for like $10 to $15 you can get a usb card reader......

dont forget ebay for a micro > SD converter (if you have a reader already) for a while $1

[Ekib]

More so , if I copy a file I can only upload the complete file . Even when I made trackmarks I can only upload the complete file . I usually start recording whenever I enter the venue.

In the PCM-M10 menu there is a Divide function. That will divide your recording at the track marks. If your recording was 120615_01.wav you will get separate files: 120615_01_01.wav,  120615_01_02.wav, etc. You can then upload individual files.  There is a limit of 100 files per folder, so try to start a show in an empty folder.

As for editing on the unit, I often push the track button during applause. If I've pushed it at the wrong time, then before I Divide the concert, the Delete function in Menu will delete one track mark (the nearest previous one in the file you are playing) or all of them. So you can Delete the bad track mark and put it in the right place on the unit--I sometimes do this on the subway home after the gig...

I don't see any problem with track-marking on the unit at obvious moments during a show. You do have to listen for when the last note of a song actually dies out, which is often well into the applause.

------------------

About taking out the microSD....someone did a test and found that the PCM-M10 is slower than a card reader but not by much. So you might weigh whether you want to create wear and tear on the door and slot of the PCM-M10, or wait a little longer for the upload. And by the way, the cable shouldn't matter as long as it connects. You're transmitting ones and zeros, not an analog signal.

Great advice . Thanks .
I thought the track mark and the divide function where the same . Now I used the divide function and it splits the track . Now I can only keep what I need.