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Author Topic: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)  (Read 114443 times)

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Offline celtic

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2012, 01:35:08 PM »
Recorded my first gig with my new sony m10 last night.

Settings as follows:

Rec Level: Manual
Mic Sens: Low
DPC(Speed CTRL) : Off
Record Level: 5
Line In
Low Cut Filter: Off
Limiter:Off
Plug-in Power: Off

I was recording a rock band in a small theatre. Position front of Board. The recording came out pretty good, but there is a "hiss" throughout the whole recording. I was using Church CA14 Card mics - Church Battery box - Line In-M10. Any idea what might have caused the hiss. Should I have used "Mic-In" rather than "Line-In"?

What bit depth did you record at? 24 or 16?
Where were your peak levels? Did you tickle the greens (-12db) or was it all lower.

One cause of noise is not recording a hot enough signal, when you amplify the recording in post you can raise the noise as well. With 24 bit recording and peak levels between -12db and -6 db you have enough dynamic range to render to 44/16 (cd quality) without boosting your noise floor.

My first M10 recording (internal mics) was done with levels that barely went higher than -20db. The recording sounds ok (not great), but you can hear the noise.

Steve

Steve

The bit depth was 24/96. I did not check the levels, I just set the rec level to 5 and pressed record and stuck it in my pocket. The maximum sample value of the recording was -23 so I guess that might be the cause. The recording volume was very low on playback on my pc. With a battery box is it better to go Mic In rather than Line In or just set the record level a bit higher to say 6 or 7 for line in.

Is line-in really only for use with a pre-amp?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 01:38:28 PM by celtic »

Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2012, 01:58:19 PM »
Level settings are dependent on which mics you are using. In general I find that I use the Mic in, low (Plug in Power off) with a battery box and my AT853 / battery box.
Your mileage may vary.

I'd also turn the limiter on, if you don't need it it doesn't hurt and if you do need it it helps.

I'd take my rig to a few open taping shows, and notice the correlation between show volume and levels while adjusting the gain knob. 
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Offline dallman

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2012, 03:42:43 PM »
Church mics are far less sensitive than AT 853's. It really sounds like you had your levels way too low and the hiss is a result of that.

Personally, I am not a big fan of using the limiter, but clearly you can raise your levels quite a bit. Mic in is also probably better with a battery box as it is not typically as powerful as a preamp.
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Offline earmonger

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2012, 06:44:52 PM »
It's funny, I generally use pretty much those exact same settings with my CA-14 omni and 9V battery box (Soundpro) through Line-in--maybe pumped up to 6 or 7 rather than 5. Line-in is an old habit from my minidisc days. They are not particularly quiet recordings.

Let the opening act be your soundcheck. Sacrifice a song (you can Normalize in post if you really feel bad about it later) and rotate the knob until the green lights flicker at the loud parts.

Also....check your battery?

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2012, 08:22:22 PM »
Try MIC-IN then ;) I have only used LINE-IN w/ my old CA14>BB setup a few times. Mostly used MIC-IN :)
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Offline celtic

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2012, 06:02:16 AM »
Try MIC-IN then ;) I have only used LINE-IN w/ my old CA14>BB setup a few times. Mostly used MIC-IN :)

What rec level did you start with going mic-in??

Thanks for all the replys guys.

Regarding the battery for the Battery box, how often should you change the Battery?

Also to boost sound levels on a recording whats the best way? I have Soundforge 10 and Cool Edit 2.0 ?? Would it be possible to remove this hiss also with one of these.

Offline willndmb

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2012, 08:10:27 AM »

Also....check your battery?
i had that issue once
i found you can't get anywhere near as much time as they state before needing to change it but ymmv

also going up to 6 or 7 will add approx 2.5-5db of gain which in this case would have put you at -20/18
still much lower then you really want to be
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2012, 11:36:11 AM »
Regarding the battery for the Battery box, how often should you change the Battery?

Usually, you can get hundreds of hours from a 9 V battery box.  Not sure about Church's, but it's probably in that range.  I change mine after ~ 50 hours unless it has been in there for a long time without hitting that level of usage, in which case I'll change it anyway (just in case)...

I would also second the mic-in suggestion.  The M10 can take a pretty hot signal mic-in.

Offline dallman

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2012, 12:10:07 PM »
Try MIC-IN then ;) I have only used LINE-IN w/ my old CA14>BB setup a few times. Mostly used MIC-IN :)

What rec level did you start with going mic-in??

Thanks for all the replys guys.

Regarding the battery for the Battery box, how often should you change the Battery?

Also to boost sound levels on a recording whats the best way? I have Soundforge 10 and Cool Edit 2.0 ?? Would it be possible to remove this hiss also with one of these.

I use Soundforge, and have had great success eliminating preamp hiss. There are 3 equalizers, and I  find it easy to play with 2 of them. (the parametric is one I struggle to use correctly) You can check the presets too within the equalizers, but I think you'll need to set up and save your own pre-set.  Since you can highlight an area and a/b the difference before saving a file, it is pretty easy to listen and test until you have eliminated hiss but not anything else. There also is a hiss button in the menu selection, but I have always set my own. Soundforge is all about playing with it and getting used to all that it can do.
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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2012, 12:50:28 PM »
I use a Lexar 16 GB class 10 micro SDHC card and it works flawless.
Second the Lexar class 10 microSDHC cards.   I'm running a 32GB and it's fast, stable and reliable (I've filled it up twice in about 2 months).

They might be a little more expensive but my data is important to me.   I believe the only fast cards on the market are a SanDisk Ultra model (and they still cost megabucks).

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2012, 07:26:56 PM »
I have been successfully using a 32gb AData Class 4 in my M10 :)
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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2012, 02:35:37 PM »
As stated somewhere in the prior sections of this thread, my only-used-once M-10 ran hotter on the left channel too.

It is important to include specifics in a comment like this.  Do you mean the internal mics, or the inputs?

I haven't bothered to measure the internal mics, but my m10 line-in is Extremely closely matched.

Sorry, I was reffering to the internal mics as have the others.

Funny, my 11mo old M10 seems to be developing this channel issue with the left hotter. I'm referring to line in. I just thought that it was because none of my mics are matched, that I was seeing a difference. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm running my R44 tonight with my new 3 Zigma mics (matched), I'm going to take the M10 along and patch it in just to check levels.
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Offline gmm6797

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2012, 03:23:07 PM »
Funny, my 11mo old M10 seems to be developing this channel issue with the left hotter. I'm referring to line in. I just thought that it was because none of my mics are matched, that I was seeing a difference. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm running my R44 tonight with my new 3 Zigma mics (matched), I'm going to take the M10 along and patch it in just to check levels.

I use line in as well and have a channel hotter than the other... and I am using with an nbox+ and schoeps mk4.  I dont ever use the internals or mic in

Offline bryonsos

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2012, 03:32:25 PM »
Funny, my 11mo old M10 seems to be developing this channel issue with the left hotter. I'm referring to line in. I just thought that it was because none of my mics are matched, that I was seeing a difference. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm running my R44 tonight with my new 3 Zigma mics (matched), I'm going to take the M10 along and patch it in just to check levels.

I use line in as well and have a channel hotter than the other... and I am using with an nbox+ and schoeps mk4.  I dont ever use the internals or mic in

Mine was subtle at first but seems to be getting worse. I'll report back on what I find out tonight.
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Offline bryonsos

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 6)
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2012, 08:19:51 AM »
Funny, my 11mo old M10 seems to be developing this channel issue with the left hotter. I'm referring to line in. I just thought that it was because none of my mics are matched, that I was seeing a difference. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm running my R44 tonight with my new 3 Zigma mics (matched), I'm going to take the M10 along and patch it in just to check levels.

I use line in as well and have a channel hotter than the other... and I am using with an nbox+ and schoeps mk4.  I dont ever use the internals or mic in

Mine was subtle at first but seems to be getting worse. I'll report back on what I find out tonight.

Couldn't reproduce it last night. It's starting to look like the LB  :(
Mics: 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (COL-251, c, h, o-d, o-f) / Avenson STO-2 / Countryman B3s
Pres: CA-Ugly / Naiant Tinyhead / SD MixPre
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