Topic: Schoeps mk22 vs mk21 vs mk4 vs mk41

[bobbygeeWOW]

Cool, thanks I'll check that out.

[kennedy]

thanks for the comp...cant wait to dive in later 

ive owned all these caps including the 4v's and 2S's except the 22s and i found i liked them in this order
21, 41, 4v, 2S, 4

without listening id probably go with the 21/22 

[Gutbucket]

marking thread to listen tonight..

[Jamos]

I have to say that the Gefell recording sounds remarkably more vibrant and full of life across the frequency board...
but since it's the only one using a V3, it's hard to say how they compare.

Out of the schoeps recordings, I preferred the 21's, but next to the Gefells, there's no comparison.

[newplanet7]

All this good stuff about the gefells and v3 pairing.
Make him an offer. 

Next time it may be wise to leave the gefells out of the comp 

[andyjah]

Just posted this over on gearslutz as well. Stir up a little more conversation.

[JasonSobel]

the complete 16 bit files of each source is now on the archive:

http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-02-06.m200.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-02-06.mk22.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-02-06.mk21.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-02-06.mk4.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-02-06.mk41.flac16

[nedstruzz]

For this comp I liked the 21's due to the larger low end pick up. 

Would definitely like to hear a comp of the 21's and 22's at an outdoor festival type set up in the Impact Zone.

[SClassical]

Jason,
If you need a V3 in the future you can ask me.

Simon

[dandecoop]

How's the Schoeps mics do on singing vocals?  I've got a couple Sony professional EX1R video cameras and a Sound Device 24 bit 8 track 788T recorder and might purchase 4 of the MK 41's for recording acustic guitars and vocals seperatly and then mixing in post.  Is there a better mic you all could recommend for singing vocals as I could just buy two Schoeps MK 41's for the guitars and two of some other kind for the vocals.  I am looking more so towards the 41's as I would like to like to concentrate the mic on a single instrument rather than the whole show at about 14 to 18 inches from the guitar.  The performers will still be using their own dynamic mics for the PA system so will not be able to get any closer to the instruments or vocals.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I missed this comp when it was original posted.  Excellent job!  Ah, the lure of on stage and stage lip recording; how they make even excellent PA recordings sound like crap.

I have owned all of those mics at the same time, except the mk22's.

It reminds me why I have my mg200's, V3, and mk21's, and the conflict that arises whenever I think of selling any one of those.  The clarity, detail and soundstage of the v3 really shines on stage or stage lip.  We could quibble about patterns; for the mk21's especially, I would have leaned toward NOS or splitting them (2 or 3 feet, depending on stage config, etc).  It's also a great reminder of why people "bother" with full bodied mg200's.

While the mk21's do have more low end, that isn't their primary attraction for me.  The big draw is their more natural and realistic presentation (especially split outdoors).  I can't get that with any card or hyper.  Of course there are a lot of indoor situations where the subcard pattern produces a result that isn't sufficiently crisp.

On a somewhat different topic, I'm curious how much gain was added on the v3, and on the r44 recordings.  On-stage is typically loud, so I assume not much.  There have been some recent posts suggesting pre-amps are not sonically necessary with modern recorders, that they don't add anything; that adding gain at the recorder is just as good.   While that is not the focus of this comp, the result does hint at why many of us "bother" with pre-amps despite having recorders with specs that look entirely adequate.

[JasonSobel]

On a somewhat different topic, I'm curious how much gain was added on the v3, and on the r44 recordings.  On-stage is typically loud, so I assume not much.  There have been some recent posts suggesting pre-amps are not sonically necessary with modern recorders, that they don't add anything; that adding gain at the recorder is just as good.   While that is not the focus of this comp, the result does hint at why many of us "bother" with pre-amps despite having recorders with specs that look entirely adequate.

This was a while ago, and Rob and Andy were running the R-44's, so I don't know how much gain was applied on the decks.  However, I know from years of taping d'Elf at this venue, that with the Gefells > V3, I always ran somewhere in the 26-28dB of gain (big knob at +25, and then another few dB of gain with the trim knobs).

[Gutbucket]

Interesting to revisit this and listen for the imaging differences determined by the mic spacing as well as the different cap flavors.

I seriously dig this band.
Big thanks for this 4way comp, but huge thanks for all the great LMA'd recordings, Jason.