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Author Topic: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?  (Read 15274 times)

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Offline jlykos

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2009, 08:32:10 PM »
Microtech Gefells will be way outside of your price range and they rarely are put up for sale.  I think that they are now around $2500 for a pair if you buy new.  Maybe you could find a used pair of Gefell M300 cardioid mics in your price range.  They are fantastic mics, but you are limited to only using cardioid capsules with them.  They would definitely be my choice for your budget, but they are difficult to find used.

If you are looking for something that may be easier to find, I would go for a pair of used Jim Williams modified 460s.  I'm really not a big fan of MBHOs, Josephesons, or Neumanns and haven't heard enough Beyerdynamic or Milab recordings to comment on them.  The MBHOs sound harsh with a lacking low end to me and Neumanns just sound like mud.

Keep in mind that if you buy anything new, you will be heavily punished by the Euro to Dollar exchange rate.  You will be able to get much more for your dollar if you scan the Yard Sale or the used gear listings at a forum like Gearslutz, especially when the dollar to Euro is currently at E1 = $1.50.
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Offline skaggs

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2009, 08:37:49 PM »
At the risk of offending the MBHO crowd, that was my first pair of mics, and the active cables were not up to par.  when tapped by anything they would spike some sort of wierd noise on the recording.  I had to send them back to Germany, which took months.  I ended up buying Schoeps before they became unaffordable to me, so i guess that was a plus, but it took me forever to figure out what caused the noise.  I replaced all my cables trying to figure it out. 

If you go AKG get the omnis and hypers, the cards well.......

Richard

Offline H₂O

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2009, 10:04:09 PM »
If I was you I'd byte the bullet and buy:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129221.0
 
 ;D
 
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2009, 10:26:53 PM »
If I was you I'd byte the bullet and buy:

That only blows his stated budget by, oh...2-2.5x.  Doh!

Gefell M300s...mmmm, nice...but good luck finding a pair used.  I don't particularly care for the AKG 480 or 460 or modded 460 sound.  MBHOs are okay, but don't do anything special for me.  Plenty of people rave about the Beyerdynamic 930s, but my ears just don't like 'em at all...much too dark for my tastes.  Of all the mics mentioned, I probably like the Milab's best, followed by the KM184/140s.  Lots of personal preference in play here, obviously, as these are all quite good mics.

You might consider first deciding if you want the option for multiple, switchable caps.  If so, that whittles the list down substantially, with the Peluso's and AKG 460s offering the best bang for buck.  (Both would allow you to get at least 2 pairs of caps, maybe even 3, within your budget.)
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Offline setboy

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2009, 10:59:05 PM »
Obviously I would recomend AKGs ;D.  I could hook you up with a set of 460 bodies, omnis and cards w/ active cables in that price range.


this!

Offline sparkey

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2009, 09:17:00 AM »
I had a pair of M300's and they are nice microphones....pretty dark sounding, a fair amount of low end and my best tapes were made FOB on very bright PA's.

My vote is still for the KM184's, you should be able to pick up a pair for about $800.

Josh



Microtech Gefells will be way outside of your price range and they rarely are put up for sale.  I think that they are now around $2500 for a pair if you buy new.  Maybe you could find a used pair of Gefell M300 cardioid mics in your price range.  They are fantastic mics, but you are limited to only using cardioid capsules with them.  They would definitely be my choice for your budget, but they are difficult to find used.

If you are looking for something that may be easier to find, I would go for a pair of used Jim Williams modified 460s.  I'm really not a big fan of MBHOs, Josephesons, or Neumanns and haven't heard enough Beyerdynamic or Milab recordings to comment on them.  The MBHOs sound harsh with a lacking low end to me and Neumanns just sound like mud.

Keep in mind that if you buy anything new, you will be heavily punished by the Euro to Dollar exchange rate.  You will be able to get much more for your dollar if you scan the Yard Sale or the used gear listings at a forum like Gearslutz, especially when the dollar to Euro is currently at E1 = $1.50.
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Offline 612

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2009, 10:30:03 AM »
Thank you everyone. Besides an occasionally peak I've stayed out of the Yardsale basically all year for various reasons but now that I have the bug to upgrade mics I'll be scanning it hardcore.
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Offline DeepCreatures

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2009, 10:51:54 AM »
i will toss in my love of the AKG 480s - have got many great recording with these mics since i got them.
Mics: AKG 480s (Ck-61, CK-62, CK-63); SP LSD2; Audix M1280Cs; CA STC-11; CSCs
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Offline sparkey

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2009, 10:54:37 AM »
Agreed, they sound much better than the 460's and don't break the bank if you want interchangeable capsules (hint: hypercards for club recording).

i will toss in my love of the AKG 480s - have got many great recording with these mics since i got them.
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jnorman34

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2009, 11:30:45 AM »
i have owned pairs of DPA 4011s, schoeps cmc64s, gefell m300s, akg c481s and 461s, km184s, at4041s and at4051s, beyer mc930s, rode nt5s, akg c391s, and a variety of other SDCs over the years.  i do chamber music recording, which belies every fault in mic response, but my opinions on mics may not be exactly fair to those who do concert recording who may desire different mic characteristics than those which suit my type of work, so take that into consideration.

of the mics i have owned, the DPA 4011s were the most accurate and transparent of the bunch, but through thorough testing, i found the AKG C481 to be an almost exact sonic match to the 4011, and i was able to use them interchangeably during studio sessions doing overdubs - virtually indistinguishable.  so, while i loved the 4011s, the price differential, in the end, made me sell the dpa's and keep the 481s.

the schoeps CMC64s made a fairly nice ORTF pair at medium distance, but were a tad boomy to me as spot mics on acoustic instruments - they were pretty flat which worked well for some instruments which benefit from a flattish high-end, such as winds and strings - but they were rather underwhelming on grand piano, acoustic guitar, and pedal harp.  i sold these mics to purchase the dpa 4011s mentioned above.

gefell m300s (i got my pair used for $600 - ha!) were very close to km184s in many ways, but exhibited a bit more mid-low response - again, somewhat beneficial to some instruments but tending toward the boomy on others - overall pretty good mics, but way overpriced in the current market, IMO. 

my experiences with km184s has been up and down - i have owend 4 pairs of 184s over the past 10 years.  the first 3 pairs, i bought brand new, and each time, i wound up selling them off in favor of other mics due to a certain edginess in the 184s top end response.  last year, though, i picked an older used pair of 184s, perhaps 10 years old, and they have become my mics of choice for my main ORTF pair - they are wonderfully musical and for some reason, this pair just sounds perfect on almost anything - i cant really explain why this pair has excited me in a way the previous 3 pairs did not.

the other pair of main mics i use is the AT4051s - a huge open sound that is flattering on almost any instrument.  i did a commercial CD for a local pianist on her 7'4" bosendorfer grand piano, where i shot out pairs of DPA 4011s, DPA 4006s, and the AT4051s.  i had originally thought the 4006s would easliy win, or at least a blend of 2 pairs of the mics, but inthe end, both the pianist and i agreed that the pair of AT4051s were the best choice and those were the mics used on the CD.  the mastering engineer told me it was one of the best piano recordings he had heard in years.

i owned some mc930s for just a short period for testing.  i did a shootout between the 930s, km184s, and at4051s on a flute and piano duo.  the 930s came in 3rd from a variety of professional listeners - not bad mics at all, but not quite as pleasant as the other two choices in that testing.  (clips are posted over in GS forums, if you want to hear them - do a search for "comparative samples").

so, there ya go - IMHO, the best mics in the price range you mention are the KM184s and the AT4051s. 

Offline illconditioned

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2009, 11:51:38 AM »
i have owned pairs of DPA 4011s, schoeps cmc64s, gefell m300s, akg c481s and 461s, km184s, at4041s and at4051s, beyer mc930s, rode nt5s, akg c391s, and a variety of other SDCs over the years.  i do chamber music recording, which belies every fault in mic response, but my opinions on mics may not be exactly fair to those who do concert recording who may desire different mic characteristics than those which suit my type of work, so take that into consideration.

of the mics i have owned, the DPA 4011s were the most accurate and transparent of the bunch, but through thorough testing, i found the AKG C481 to be an almost exact sonic match to the 4011, and i was able to use them interchangeably during studio sessions doing overdubs - virtually indistinguishable.  so, while i loved the 4011s, the price differential, in the end, made me sell the dpa's and keep the 481s.

the schoeps CMC64s made a fairly nice ORTF pair at medium distance, but were a tad boomy to me as spot mics on acoustic instruments - they were pretty flat which worked well for some instruments which benefit from a flattish high-end, such as winds and strings - but they were rather underwhelming on grand piano, acoustic guitar, and pedal harp.  i sold these mics to purchase the dpa 4011s mentioned above.

gefell m300s (i got my pair used for $600 - ha!) were very close to km184s in many ways, but exhibited a bit more mid-low response - again, somewhat beneficial to some instruments but tending toward the boomy on others - overall pretty good mics, but way overpriced in the current market, IMO. 

my experiences with km184s has been up and down - i have owend 4 pairs of 184s over the past 10 years.  the first 3 pairs, i bought brand new, and each time, i wound up selling them off in favor of other mics due to a certain edginess in the 184s top end response.  last year, though, i picked an older used pair of 184s, perhaps 10 years old, and they have become my mics of choice for my main ORTF pair - they are wonderfully musical and for some reason, this pair just sounds perfect on almost anything - i cant really explain why this pair has excited me in a way the previous 3 pairs did not.

the other pair of main mics i use is the AT4051s - a huge open sound that is flattering on almost any instrument.  i did a commercial CD for a local pianist on her 7'4" bosendorfer grand piano, where i shot out pairs of DPA 4011s, DPA 4006s, and the AT4051s.  i had originally thought the 4006s would easliy win, or at least a blend of 2 pairs of the mics, but inthe end, both the pianist and i agreed that the pair of AT4051s were the best choice and those were the mics used on the CD.  the mastering engineer told me it was one of the best piano recordings he had heard in years.

i owned some mc930s for just a short period for testing.  i did a shootout between the 930s, km184s, and at4051s on a flute and piano duo.  the 930s came in 3rd from a variety of professional listeners - not bad mics at all, but not quite as pleasant as the other two choices in that testing.  (clips are posted over in GS forums, if you want to hear them - do a search for "comparative samples").

so, there ya go - IMHO, the best mics in the price range you mention are the KM184s and the AT4051s.
Very nice descriptions.  Thanks for that.

I'm intrigued when you say some mics have "boominess", even when recorded up close.

I find it interesting that when we hear recordings, eg., of a electric-acoustic setup in a nice room, that we can ascribe different imperfections in the *recording* (ie., the mics) to either the room or the PA!

I've got many recordings I've made in a small local club (see "jane bond" at http://Soundmann.com) over the years.  Various performers, different mics and patterns, and different positions in the room, but you can really hear the difference.  Some recordings sound "boomy" while other recordings the PA sounds distorted, etc.  I think a lot more of this sound is due to the mics themselves, and yet we tend "explain it" by the room or the PA sound.

If I was serious about this hobby I would try to run a set of "neutral" mics, like the DPA406x to get the "real" room sound.  I would compare the main mics (Beyerdynamic or whatever) to the DPA to get an idea of whatever "color" the mics were adding to the sound.  But alas, I'm too busy with other stuff, like hanging out and drinking beer, lol.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Offline datbrad

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2009, 02:48:45 PM »
Agreed, they sound much better than the JW460's and don't break the bank if you want interchangeable capsules (hint: hypercards for club recording).

i will toss in my love of the AKG 480s - have got many great recording with these mics since i got them.

Fixed that for you. Having owned a pair of 460s now for 15 years, and the ability to make direct comparisons between stock 460s and 480s from almost every show I record, I can assure you that there is no quality difference in sonic clarity or performance between the 460s and 480s.

The primary difference in defacto sound (not paper specs) is the 480s are more transparent in tone than the 460s, because they lack having transformers. 480s are simply not as warm sounding as 460s, and being an old taper that prefers a vintage sound as close to analog as possible, I find the 460s meet this need perfectly.

I know other AKG tapers that prefer a more transparent tone, and therefore are running 480s. Even with this difference in tone, I have been able to swap sources on playback between 460s and 480s and was hard pressed to tell the difference.

You do need to be very careful if you seek to get a pair of used 460s. You can find used 460s all over the place, but few of these were used for field or studio recording, where the mics are babied while in use and packed away safely the rest of the time.

Most used 460s on the open market were either ENG mics, or live sound stage mics that have been used and abused for years. Shock, dust, moisture/spit, name your poison. I expect these beat up 460s don't sound as good as a pair that was well cared for by a taper, and could also be almost 20 years old by now.

If I was going to buy used, I would go for 480s from an established taper here that bought them new. This way, you know the mics could not be more than 10 years old, and were taken good care of.

Good luck.

(PS: My vote goes to Milab after AKG)

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Offline Tony B

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2009, 04:24:16 PM »
I ran KM184's for a good while, and loved them. I was actually toying with the idea of trading my Gefells for a set, plus some cash (the madness soon passed).

They're fixed cards, but very versatile and handle the rock shows quite well.

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Offline sparkey

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2009, 09:39:27 PM »
and there ya go

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129254.0;topicseen


I ran KM184's for a good while, and loved them. I was actually toying with the idea of trading my Gefells for a set, plus some cash (the madness soon passed).

They're fixed cards, but very versatile and handle the rock shows quite well.
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Offline Tony B

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Re: What pair of mics should I look at in the $1000 to $1200 range?
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2009, 09:42:10 PM »

No way, Dogg.

I will die with my MG's. I'm done buying mics.

 ;)


and there ya go

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129254.0;topicseen


I ran KM184's for a good while, and loved them. I was actually toying with the idea of trading my Gefells for a set, plus some cash (the madness soon passed).

They're fixed cards, but very versatile and handle the rock shows quite well.
Coffee is for Closers

MG m200>AM Hyperconducters>V3>JayBeeThree/h120

 

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