Author Topic: Sony Md Recording quality (Read 7785 times)

Treyb2692003 · « **on:** March 03, 2004, 07:42:38 PM »

(Im new)

Im looking into a (Sony High Speed Net MD™ Walkman® Recorder
MZ-N10,) Just wondering what the sound Quality would be with a One-Point Stereo Microphone attached??

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2004, 07:57:08 PM »

depends on the mic, perhaps it is a 907?

Treyb2692003 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2004, 07:59:58 PM »

Yeah its a ECM-MS907

jesse · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2004, 03:27:51 AM »

I've got some shows recorded using a EMC-MS907>MZ-R700 sony minidisk and will send you for B&P. PM me for my adress if you like.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2004, 05:05:56 AM »

Quote from: jesse on March 04, 2004, 03:27:51 AM

I've got some shows recorded using a EMC-MS907>MZ-R700 sony minidisk and will send you for B&P. PM me for my adress if you like.

I've done many a show with this rig. What have ya?

It's really not THAT bad of a starting rig. For $150 it makes decent recordings that anyone just getting into the scene can be proud of.

Crimson · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2004, 09:48:31 AM »

pride is a sin.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2004, 04:30:42 PM »

Quote from: crimson on March 04, 2004, 09:48:31 AM

pride is a sin.

nisa sie dirp

jesse · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2004, 02:37:02 AM »

Hey schwillberitis

I too have done many a show W/ the above mentioned rig. Been using for over a year now stealthing under a mesh back trucker hat and sometimes in a hoodie. Served me very well and I am very happy w/it. The rig at the bottom of my profile is very recentlly aquired (I'm still waiting for the UA5 ordered today) made possible by tax returns, and is still sans cables. I won't be able to use my new rig at my next show at the end of the month as taping wont be allowed . Guess it will have to be a job for the EMC-ms907. I was reading on one of the forums about mic input in the line in instead of the mic in because the preamp is so shady. Ever tried, any luck?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2004, 07:51:39 AM »

Jesse, upgrade your mics before anything!

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2004, 09:55:58 AM »

Quote from: jesse on March 05, 2004, 02:37:02 AM

Hey schwillberitis

I too have done many a show W/ the above mentioned rig. Been using for over a year now stealthing under a mesh back trucker hat and sometimes in a hoodie. Served me very well and I am very happy w/it. The rig at the bottom of my profile is very recentlly aquired (I'm still waiting for the UA5 ordered today) made possible by tax returns, and is still sans cables. I won't be able to use my new rig at my next show at the end of the month as taping wont be allowed . Guess it will have to be a job for the EMC-ms907. I was reading on one of the forums about mic input in the line in instead of the mic in because the preamp is so shady. Ever tried, any luck?

I always used the line-in, never mic-in. Problem with that is the 907 isn't sensitive enough sometimes. you could always stealth the ua-5

mattb · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2004, 12:08:16 PM »

I'd go for a Sharp MD over a Sony. I've run them both and I think the Sharp is easier to operate (change levels on the fly) and it has a better mic pre for the quieter shows when line in is too low.

porphyry · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2004, 09:27:25 PM »

one of the most important issues yet to be addressed here is this:

if you have the budget to be considering the sony mz-n10, then just wait until april and get one of the new Hi-MD recorders. then you can make recordings with NO COMPRESSION.

eh?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2004, 04:42:35 PM »

Hi-MD has absolutely NO COMPRESSION?! No lossiness?

C.Clark · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2004, 05:04:40 PM »

Quote from: Schwillberitis on March 07, 2004, 04:42:35 PM

Hi-MD has absolutely NO COMPRESSION?! No lossiness?

it supposedly has the option to record to pcm wave or to atrac

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2004, 05:36:35 PM »

taken from the sony spec sheet:

"2) High Quality Sound Recording and Playback
“Hi-MD” incorporates ATRAC3plus high compression and sound quality audio compression technology, realizing extended length, near CD quality sound. By also adopting a non-compressible, linear PCM
recording, “Hi-MD” compatible products enable users to enjoy the recording and playback of high-quality sound, close to the quality of commercial audio CDs."

I
've found in 3 different places where it says it used linear PCM that provides "near CD quality sound," whatever that means. To me, it sounds like it is not lossless.

hoobash · « **Reply #15 on:** March 07, 2004, 05:39:31 PM »

I got a sharp sr60 I am selling

porphyry · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2004, 03:04:35 AM »

Quote

To me, it sounds like it is not lossless.

well to everyone else it sounds like it is lossless.

“Hi-MD” compatible products enable users to enjoy the recording and playback of high-quality sound, close to the quality of commercial audio CDs."

thats all just sony marketing bullshit. from what i understand, Hi-MD recorders will have a whole range of different bitrates and quality levels, including the lowest, 64kbps, which will sound shit to anyone who knows what to listen for but will convince the average man on the street that it is, as sony tells them (and just what other corporations say about MP3) "near CD".

in other words, the Hi-MD recorders will do lossless and lossy stuff.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2004, 03:25:44 AM »

Quote from: porphyry on March 08, 2004, 03:04:35 AM

Quote
To me, it sounds like it is not lossless.

well to everyone else it sounds like it is lossless.

“Hi-MD” compatible products enable users to enjoy the recording and playback of high-quality sound, close to the quality of commercial audio CDs."

thats all just sony marketing bullshit. from what i understand, Hi-MD recorders will have a whole range of different bitrates and quality levels, including the lowest, 64kbps, which will sound shit to anyone who knows what to listen for but will convince the average man on the street that it is, as sony tells them (and just what other corporations say about MP3) "near CD".

in other words, the Hi-MD recorders will do lossless and lossy stuff.

"close to CD quality." if it were lossless, then it would say "IS CD quality," but it doesn't. So that is where I am confused. Nowhere on the sony spec sheet does it say "TOTALLY FOR SURE NO DOUBT THIS IS IS IS CD QUALITY." All it talks about is the awesome the new ATRAC3plus COMPRESSION and how it is really cool that you can format a standard 80MB MD into a 300 MB Hi-MD format, etc etc. I've looked, so if you can kindly point me in the direction where it says Hi-MD will record uncompressed 16/44.1 files, that would be awesome, because for some reason I don't think the hearsay you preach is true, imnsho

joemango · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2004, 10:08:35 AM »

Here we go again.

PCM is commonly known as RAW digital, in other words, uncompressed. You can record 1h34m on a 1GB disc.

http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html

joemango · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2004, 10:09:42 AM »

...and standard MD's are 140MB, not 80. They're 80 minutes.

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #20 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:02:18 AM »

I may be wrong, but I thought I read that none of the Hi_MD have digital outputs, that anything recorded lossless cannot be transfered as such.

I have no idea, I think the money is better spent on a Nomad 3.

Terry

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:08:43 AM »

FWIW< if i were to stealth, i would use the v3+backback on my back, IF i could get all of that in the doorr that is, but if it were open taping, and i wanted to be stealth, id do it this way, w/ some 1290-HC's on the pole or in hat;-)

one of these days ill give it a try

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #22 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:13:50 AM »

the numbers aren't adding up for me

700MB = 1H20M of uncompressed wav

on hi-MD

1024MB - 1H34M of so-called uncompressed wav

so if these 2 wav formats are the same, why does it take an extra 300+MB to record only 14 more minutes than a standard CD?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:14:57 AM »

oh yeah, thanx, joe, for pointing me to some hard info

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #24 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:19:08 AM »

Quote from: Schwillberitis on March 08, 2004, 11:13:50 AM

the numbers aren't adding up for me

700MB = 1H20M of uncompressed wav

on hi-MD

1024MB - 1H34M of so-called uncompressed wav

so if these 2 wav formats are the same, why does it take an extra 300+MB to record only 14 more minutes than a standard CD?

maybe the HI-MD does 24/96

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #25 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:22:59 AM »

did sony say it will start making products that don't randomly have dropouts in lengthy wav recordings. You know what I'm talking about, yeah, those. The .1-.3 dropouts riddled on every disc I've ever recorded (except one with my Sharp)

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #26 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:33:27 AM »

Quote from: Schwillberitis on March 08, 2004, 11:22:59 AM

did sony say it will start making products that don't randomly have dropouts in lengthy wav recordings. You know what I'm talking about, yeah, those. The .1-.3 dropouts riddled on every disc I've ever recorded (except one with my Sharp)

damn, that sux schwill, never knew that, another reason why i never owned one

joemango · « **Reply #27 on:** March 08, 2004, 01:34:08 PM »

Schwill:

Glad to provide the info.

The transfer issue is still a tough one. Supposedly you will not be able to do a usb transfer to your PC of a digitally recorded item.. They say that it is possible to do so with a recording made with the MIC input. I wonder if they are referring to SCMS.

We'll only really know wehn someone actually gets their hands on one in April and does some experimenting.

Unless it does digital transfers of digital recordings, I won't buy one, and I'll keep my JB3, thanks.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #28 on:** March 08, 2004, 01:37:27 PM »

me too

joemango · « **Reply #29 on:** March 08, 2004, 01:50:25 PM »

Quote from: Schwillberitis on March 08, 2004, 11:13:50 AM

the numbers aren't adding up for me

700MB = 1H20M of uncompressed wav

on hi-MD

1024MB - 1H34M of so-called uncompressed wav

so if these 2 wav formats are the same, why does it take an extra 300+MB to record only 14 more minutes than a standard CD?

Actually, 80m of uncompressed 16/44.1 takes up exactly 786432000 bytes. You can store 700 MB of DATA on a CD-R, but writing DATA to the disc requires it to have subcode, allocation and checksum formatting, which requires extra space on the disc. Audio is encoded with a minimum of extraneous data, so you can fit more than 700 MB of audio on a disc.

To see this yourself, rip a disc that has a full 80 minutes of audio on it, and you will see that it takes up much more than 700 MB.

I suspect that there is a fair amount of formatting going on in the Hi-MD, (perhaps encyption, maybe error-correction checksums) so there you have the difference between 1024 MB and the 924057600 bytes contained in 1h34m of uncompressed audio.

I have no doubts whatsoever that it can record straight uncompressed audio.

joemango · « **Reply #30 on:** March 08, 2004, 02:00:19 PM »

wait... lemme get out my calc again.

16 bits=2 bytes per sample
2 channels=4 bytes per sample
44100 x 4bytes=176400 bytes/sec
176400 x 60=10584000 bytes/min
80 min = 846,720,000 bytes
94 min=994,896,000 bytes.

Now it seems a little less unlikely that something is going on besides 16/44.1 uncompressed, don't it.

joemango · « **Reply #31 on:** March 08, 2004, 02:02:27 PM »

likely. whatever. I'm going back to work.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #32 on:** March 08, 2004, 02:07:12 PM »

thanx joe, all very helpful info. You've been the only oen to provide me with concrete data, even if I can't multiply

My biggest issue with MD was actually not the compression, but the dropouts, although I enjoy using an uncompressed medium now.

thanx again

Jamesonian · « **Reply #33 on:** March 08, 2004, 07:06:02 PM »

i use a sony ECM-DS70P > MZ-N707. Definitely buy a Battery Module from Sound Professionals. Taping even a moderately loud show will result in some serious brickwalling.

joemango · « **Reply #34 on:** March 09, 2004, 10:49:27 AM »

Schwill:

How many different MD recorders have you had dropouts with? I've used the MZR-30, MZN-707and MZR-700 all with very consistent results. The only time I've had problems was with my CO2 before I changed the power lead.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #35 on:** March 09, 2004, 02:47:04 PM »

the MZ-R90, MZ-R700, and MT770, all experience random dropouts. Usually it wasn't a big deal, but it's annoying. It wasn't from bumping it either. I recorded a rave with the MT770, dancing and moving around the whole time. Not one dropout for 4 hours. Then I'll do a stealth job and it will have dropouts. Bah