Topic: Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS200 (edit: mostly about ZS100 though)

[guitard]

I've noticed something lately and I wonder if anyone else has noticed this; and if so, have they found a fix.

I like to film shows in manual focus as I think it gives me a little more control.  Typically, I zoom all the way in on the main or center player, set the focus, and use that for much of the show. 

I have noticed, however, when I zoom all the way out, the people on the stage will go out of focus.  This is especially true if the stage isn't brightly lit.  And I've also noticed that if there are people in front on me (between me and the stage) who are well lit, my camera seems to focus on them when it's zoomed out.

[beatkilla]

Not sure if this was discussed earlier BUT...

If you change your focus mode to Macro Zoom this limits the focal range from 28-280 to 28-84mm In this mode you can set your aperture to F2.8 and retain F2.8 throughout the zoom.

What does all this mean in real terms when you're filming a show?  In other words, what is the benefit?

At f2.8 you gain 2 and a half stops of light from f6.3 approximately ,so you could lower your gain(iso) by 2 and a half stops .

This lowering of the ISO would give a cleaner less noisy image.

But you would need to be up front to stage as your zoom range is shorter.

Always good to have some more options.

[webvan]

Mic Recording Level.

I mostly only use this camera only for concerts (loud rock concerts) so this is what I would suggest...
Unfortunately there is no way to adjust the recording level.
Someone in this thread mentioned to place the Wind Noise Canceller to High.  I have not tried that yet (I have mine set to Medium). 
I have learned and experienced that "Zoom Mic" set to ON is not a good thing.  This amplifies the sound the more you zoom in.  It's already loud at the concerts I go to so no need to amplify audio. Turning it off, it sounds much cleaner. 
The audio recording on this camera is atrocious.  Even my older and much cheaper pocket Panny cameras sound better.  If I recall correctly, the M4/3 and larger sensor Panasonic cameras are pretty good with their mics and have much cleaner preamps.  Of course, still nothing like external mics/preamps/recorder.

Anyone do an audio comparison with this camera and the 1" sensor pocket Sony RX100VII? I have interchangeable lens cameras by Sony and it sounds so much better, but not sure how the compact Sony's are.  RX100VII doesn't have the same zoom range, but the lens is sharper so you can crop in even more than the equivalent to the ZS100 and it will be sharper.  Works a little better in low light too. Plus has a mic input. Has so much more that is better about it for me (and a lot of other things that are better, but they don't all matter much because I only use it for 1 purpose), but it cost about 3X as much as I got the ZS100 new.

In case you're still looking for an answer if you think the ZS100's audio is bad then don't even touch a compact Sony camera, they (HX5, HX20, HX30, HX90, RX100III) distort horribly at even the lowest of sound levels, something I never got on the ZS100 or any other Panasonic camera.

[Papaphunk]

I Use this camera all the time. Have a clamp, will put it up on my Mic Stand and capture Full Sets at my fav local vanues.

Here's a few examples with the on board Camera Audio utilized.

Splintered Sunlight - Full First Set

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuZIw4jOJZ4&t=251s

Local SuperJam - Philly Burbs w Ron Holloway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuZIw4jOJZ4&t=251s

Cabinet - Bluegrass - Full Set

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRstvAG0H5c&t=1769s

Perpetual Groove

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N5ANiTX4eM

[guitard]

I Use this camera all the time. Have a clamp, will put it up on my Mic Stand and capture Full Sets at my fav local vanues.

Here's a few examples with the on board Camera Audio utilized.

I checked out your samples - they look great.

I'd like to offer a suggestion - try switching to manual focus.  Since you don't zoom in and out, you'd just have to focus the shot once (by tapping the "AF" icon on the screen) and you'd be done.  That will stop the camera lens from "searching" around at times for something to focus on.  The two benefits are 1) the shot is in focus 100% of the time and 2) the camera battery will last longer because when the lens is "searching" for something to focus on, it's using up juice.

[Papaphunk]

I Use this camera all the time. Have a clamp, will put it up on my Mic Stand and capture Full Sets at my fav local vanues.

Here's a few examples with the on board Camera Audio utilized.

I checked out your samples - they look great.

I'd like to offer a suggestion - try switching to manual focus.  Since you don't zoom in and out, you'd just have to focus the shot once (by tapping the "AF" icon on the screen) and you'd be done.  That will stop the camera lens from "searching" around at times for something to focus on.  The two benefits are 1) the shot is in focus 100% of the time and 2) the camera battery will last longer because when the lens is "searching" for something to focus on, it's using up juice.

Cool, thanks! I will give that a shot next time out.

[guitard]

Mic Recording Level.

I mostly only use this camera only for concerts (loud rock concerts) so this is what I would suggest...
Unfortunately there is no way to adjust the recording level.
Someone in this thread mentioned to place the Wind Noise Canceller to High.  I have not tried that yet (I have mine set to Medium). 
I have learned and experienced that "Zoom Mic" set to ON is not a good thing.  This amplifies the sound the more you zoom in.  It's already loud at the concerts I go to so no need to amplify audio. Turning it off, it sounds much cleaner. 
The audio recording on this camera is atrocious.  Even my older and much cheaper pocket Panny cameras sound better.  If I recall correctly, the M4/3 and larger sensor Panasonic cameras are pretty good with their mics and have much cleaner preamps.  Of course, still nothing like external mics/preamps/recorder.

Anyone do an audio comparison with this camera and the 1" sensor pocket Sony RX100VII? I have interchangeable lens cameras by Sony and it sounds so much better, but not sure how the compact Sony's are.  RX100VII doesn't have the same zoom range, but the lens is sharper so you can crop in even more than the equivalent to the ZS100 and it will be sharper.  Works a little better in low light too. Plus has a mic input. Has so much more that is better about it for me (and a lot of other things that are better, but they don't all matter much because I only use it for 1 purpose), but it cost about 3X as much as I got the ZS100 new.

In case you're still looking for an answer if you think the ZS100's audio is bad then don't even touch a compact Sony camera, they (HX5, HX20, HX30, HX90, RX100III) distort horribly at even the lowest of sound levels, something I never got on the ZS100 or any other Panasonic camera.

I have two ZS100 cameras and the audio recording levels are vastly different.  One of them records at a 'normal' level and the other records at a much lower level and is somewhat muffled sounding.  I have double and triple checked, and every last setting is identical in the menus.  As far as I know, there is no volume control for recording audio; although you can adjust the volume of a recorded video's audio while viewing the video on the camera's LED screen.

Regarding camera audio quality - I always record audio separately with my Schoeps; so the camera audio is mostly just a reference for the Schoeps audio.  But there have been a few times that something went wrong with the rig audio and all I had was camera audio.  Here is one such example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8rFh204mhc

It isn't great audio by any measure; but it's not so bad that it makes the video not worth watching (IMHO).  BTW - I recorded this video with the ZS100 that records audio at what I think of as a 'normal' level.

[phil_er_up]

Hi all,

Did the upgrade for the camera to be able to bypass the 29 minute limit on video recording. Though recently it went back to the 29 minute recording limit though I have not reset the camera. Have gone back through this thread and copied sections of it into a text file and tried to reset the camera to the way it was. I still get the yellow triangle when I turn it off so I know the hack to bypass the 29 minute limit is still on the camera.

Any ideas on what I need to try to figure this out?

Here is the camera setting I am using:

===============================================

ZS100 Camera Settings:


SET TOP DIAL ON CAMERA TO THE VIDEO CAMERA ICON/M mode:

Video Camera Icon Menu:

screen 1: Record format > MP4 for PC or Other for MAC
Screen 2: Record quality > 4k/30 p
     AF mode > facial recognition
Screen 3: AFF
     Continue AF > on
Screen 4: No change
Screen 5: Silent operation > on
     Wind noise canceller > high
   

Wrench/C Menu:

Screen 1: Silent mode > on
Screen 2: No Change
Screen 3: Direct focus area > on
Screen 4: Gridline > on
Screen 5: Highlight > on
     zebra pattern > on
Screen 6: No Change
Screen 7: FN Button Set >
     Settings in Record Mode >
     F1 Button (Exposure compensation: on screen #12)
     F2 Button  ISO (On Screen #5)
Screen 8: Eye sensor > LVF/Monitor switch > Monitor



PUT TOP DIAL ON CAMERA ON (M) MANUAL MODE:

Screen 1: Aspect ratio > 3.2
     Picture Size > L20
     Quality > RAW + .JPG SF
Screen 2: AF Mode > Facial Recognition
     AFF
Screen 3: No Change
Screen 4: No Change
Screen 5: No Change
Screen 6: ISO Increments > 1/3
Screen 7: No Change
Screen 8: Stabilizer > ON

===============================================

Thank in advance.

Regards,
Patrick

[phil_er_up]

Has anyone reset the camera then redid the mod on the camera?

[guitard]

Has anyone reset the camera then redid the mod on the camera?

Yes.  And I had no issues re-hacking it and getting it all set up again.

[OrionMan]

Mic Recording Level.

I mostly only use this camera only for concerts (loud rock concerts) so this is what I would suggest...
Unfortunately there is no way to adjust the recording level.
Someone in this thread mentioned to place the Wind Noise Canceller to High.  I have not tried that yet (I have mine set to Medium). 
I have learned and experienced that "Zoom Mic" set to ON is not a good thing.  This amplifies the sound the more you zoom in.  It's already loud at the concerts I go to so no need to amplify audio. Turning it off, it sounds much cleaner. 
The audio recording on this camera is atrocious.  Even my older and much cheaper pocket Panny cameras sound better.  If I recall correctly, the M4/3 and larger sensor Panasonic cameras are pretty good with their mics and have much cleaner preamps.  Of course, still nothing like external mics/preamps/recorder.

Anyone do an audio comparison with this camera and the 1" sensor pocket Sony RX100VII? I have interchangeable lens cameras by Sony and it sounds so much better, but not sure how the compact Sony's are.  RX100VII doesn't have the same zoom range, but the lens is sharper so you can crop in even more than the equivalent to the ZS100 and it will be sharper.  Works a little better in low light too. Plus has a mic input. Has so much more that is better about it for me (and a lot of other things that are better, but they don't all matter much because I only use it for 1 purpose), but it cost about 3X as much as I got the ZS100 new.

In case you're still looking for an answer if you think the ZS100's audio is bad then don't even touch a compact Sony camera, they (HX5, HX20, HX30, HX90, RX100III) distort horribly at even the lowest of sound levels, something I never got on the ZS100 or any other Panasonic camera.

I don't come here often anymore, so just seeing this now.

I did get the Rx100vii.   Audio is way better than the ZS100.  My batteries died in my portable recorder during a show right in the middle of the one song I really wanted to video tape so I used the cameras recording and it was decent.  Decent as in Much better than I could ever get out of the Panasonic.

[OrionMan]

Not sure if this was discussed earlier BUT...

If you change your focus mode to Macro Zoom this limits the focal range from 28-280 to 28-84mm In this mode you can set your aperture to F2.8 and retain F2.8 throughout the zoom.

What does all this mean in real terms when you're filming a show?  In other words, what is the benefit?

At f2.8 you gain 2 and a half stops of light from f6.3 approximately ,so you could lower your gain(iso) by 2 and a half stops .

This lowering of the ISO would give a cleaner less noisy image.

But you would need to be up front to stage as your zoom range is shorter.

Always good to have some more options.

Why not just leave it in normal mode (macro off) and not zoom in so much? If you have it in macro mode, then you won't have the option to zoom in more in case there suddenly is a need for it.  The max aperture (lower F number) at any specific focal length is still the same whether the macro mode is on or off.

The macro mode is meant for macro use, meaning being able to focus on subjects that are closer than when not using macro mode.  So best for close up subjects such as flowers and insects.

[guitard]

Not sure if this was discussed earlier BUT...

If you change your focus mode to Macro Zoom this limits the focal range from 28-280 to 28-84mm In this mode you can set your aperture to F2.8 and retain F2.8 throughout the zoom.

What does all this mean in real terms when you're filming a show?  In other words, what is the benefit?

At f2.8 you gain 2 and a half stops of light from f6.3 approximately ,so you could lower your gain(iso) by 2 and a half stops .

This lowering of the ISO would give a cleaner less noisy image.

But you would need to be up front to stage as your zoom range is shorter.

Always good to have some more options.

Why not just leave it in normal mode (macro off) and not zoom in so much? If you have it in macro mode, then you won't have the option to zoom in more in case there suddenly is a need for it.  The max aperture (lower F number) at any specific focal length is still the same whether the macro mode is on or off.

The macro mode is meant for macro use, meaning being able to focus on subjects that are closer than when not using macro mode.  So best for close up subjects such as flowers and insects.

You seem quite skeptical about the possibilities of the macro mode.  I've never tried it before.  However, I shoot from up close at times - literally right next to a low stage where I'm only five feet away from the performer(s).  So I'm willing to at least give it a shot.  You never know ...  you could try it and realize that you've been missing out on something that could really be useful in certain settings.

Just my 2¢'s worth.

[OrionMan]

Not sure if this was discussed earlier BUT...

If you change your focus mode to Macro Zoom this limits the focal range from 28-280 to 28-84mm In this mode you can set your aperture to F2.8 and retain F2.8 throughout the zoom.

What does all this mean in real terms when you're filming a show?  In other words, what is the benefit?

At f2.8 you gain 2 and a half stops of light from f6.3 approximately ,so you could lower your gain(iso) by 2 and a half stops .

This lowering of the ISO would give a cleaner less noisy image.

But you would need to be up front to stage as your zoom range is shorter.

Always good to have some more options.

Why not just leave it in normal mode (macro off) and not zoom in so much? If you have it in macro mode, then you won't have the option to zoom in more in case there suddenly is a need for it.  The max aperture (lower F number) at any specific focal length is still the same whether the macro mode is on or off.

The macro mode is meant for macro use, meaning being able to focus on subjects that are closer than when not using macro mode.  So best for close up subjects such as flowers and insects.

You seem quite skeptical about the possibilities of the macro mode.  I've never tried it before.  However, I shoot from up close at times - literally right next to a low stage where I'm only five feet away from the performer(s).  So I'm willing to at least give it a shot.  You never know ...  you could try it and realize that you've been missing out on something that could really be useful in certain settings.

Just my 2¢'s worth.

I was writing a reply, but then re-read yours and beatkilla's posts so I deleted my original reply.  Because I mistook where he wrote "Macro Zoom"  as "AF Macro".  My bad.   Yeah, that would work.  But picture quality would be degraded since it is a Digital zoom. So I would only do that with 4K, not 1080.  And only up to 2X zoom (quickly looking at the user's guide, it goes up to 3X Digital).  I sometimes do a digital zoom myself, but only in post (using Davinci Resolve) and only in 4K up to 2X.  2X crop is similar to 1080, so it will still look real good.  One main reason I do it only in post, is that this way, I can punch in out for different segments of the video.  If I am recording 2X digital zoom, I can not edit it to show what I did not record, so if I ever did want to have my end result wide, or  even punched in on a subject that was off screen to the left or right, I could still do that in post.

Here is the manual, in case you want to verify about the 3X zoom and degradation.   After you open it, just search for "Macro".  It' easy to find that section since it's not mentioned often. 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/248659.pdf

Again, sorry for misreading.

[beatkilla]

Not sure if this was discussed earlier BUT...

If you change your focus mode to Macro Zoom this limits the focal range from 28-280 to 28-84mm In this mode you can set your aperture to F2.8 and retain F2.8 throughout the zoom.

What does all this mean in real terms when you're filming a show?  In other words, what is the benefit?

At f2.8 you gain 2 and a half stops of light from f6.3 approximately ,so you could lower your gain(iso) by 2 and a half stops .

This lowering of the ISO would give a cleaner less noisy image.

But you would need to be up front to stage as your zoom range is shorter.

Always good to have some more options.

Why not just leave it in normal mode (macro off) and not zoom in so much? If you have it in macro mode, then you won't have the option to zoom in more in case there suddenly is a need for it.  The max aperture (lower F number) at any specific focal length is still the same whether the macro mode is on or off.

The macro mode is meant for macro use, meaning being able to focus on subjects that are closer than when not using macro mode.  So best for close up subjects such as flowers and insects.

You seem quite skeptical about the possibilities of the macro mode.  I've never tried it before.  However, I shoot from up close at times - literally right next to a low stage where I'm only five feet away from the performer(s).  So I'm willing to at least give it a shot.  You never know ...  you could try it and realize that you've been missing out on something that could really be useful in certain settings.

Just my 2¢'s worth.

I was writing a reply, but then re-read yours and beatkilla's posts so I deleted my original reply.  Because I mistook where he wrote "Macro Zoom"  as "AF Macro".  My bad.   Yeah, that would work.  But picture quality would be degraded since it is a Digital zoom. So I would only do that with 4K, not 1080.  And only up to 2X zoom (quickly looking at the user's guide, it goes up to 3X Digital).  I sometimes do a digital zoom myself, but only in post (using Davinci Resolve) and only in 4K up to 2X.  2X crop is similar to 1080, so it will still look real good.  One main reason I do it only in post, is that this way, I can punch in out for different segments of the video.  If I am recording 2X digital zoom, I can not edit it to show what I did not record, so if I ever did want to have my end result wide, or  even punched in on a subject that was off screen to the left or right, I could still do that in post.

Here is the manual, in case you want to verify about the 3X zoom and degradation.   After you open it, just search for "Macro".  It' easy to find that section since it's not mentioned often. 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/248659.pdf

Again, sorry for misreading.

Always leave Digital Zoom OFF if your goal is the best image quality possible.


Happy Filming