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Author Topic: Zoom F3  (Read 24144 times)

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Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2022, 09:02:16 AM »
The Zoom H series preamps are quite noisy, and deserving of criticism. F6 and F8 in a different league, and are now on par with Sound Devices and other pro units in all areas except max input level.

Good point, I overlooked that distinction.
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2022, 10:29:03 AM »

I can believe that Sonosax has better A/D than Zoom, but I don't know how the iPod Touch would be a better bitbox than a dedicated audio recorder. Or are you just saying that in the context of using the M2D2 in front of it?


Just in the context of running the M2D2.  If you run the M2D2 digital-out, you might as well run to the iPod touch or an iPhone as the M2D2 won't do 32 bits.  If you run analog-out from the M2D2 you would get the A/D  of the F3.  My iPhone XR running Metarecorder runs for about 10-11 hours, when powering a DPA MMA-A and 4060 mics, and I calculate it would run around 13-14 hours with the M2D2.  An iPod Touch 7 recording (with Metarecorder) from an M2D2 (the M2D2 battery powering the mics and its own amp/AD) runs about 5 hours, which is a bit longer than the M2D2 gets on its internal battery.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2022, 05:08:09 PM »
does usb audio. would be a nice small recorder to pair with my sonosax m2d2 vs phone

I doubt very much whether it records from its USB interface.  My reading of the available info is that it will be just the same as any other Zoom recorder, namely that you can use it as an interface to a computer, allowing the F3 mic inputs to be recorded on the PC, and playback on the PC could be heard on the Zoom.  It won't have a digital input for recording.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2022, 07:34:57 PM »
I found the manual online - concerning the USB interface, it says (according to Google Translate) -

"Connect to a PC or smartphone / tablet to connect with an SD card reader and audio interface
Can be used. It supports USB bus power operation."

In the menus you can select whether you want to connect to PC/Mac, or to smartphone / tablet.
There are diagrams showing connection to PC/Mac or smartphones/tablets but no reference to connecting a USB-C audio device.

"You can set the loopback and monitor sound when using F3 as an audio interface.
Set loopback
Mix the playback sound of your computer or smartphone / tablet with the input sound of F3, and then use your computer or smartphone again.
You can send it to a phone / tablet (loopback).
You can add narration to the music played on your computer, record it on your computer, or stream it. "

Link to the manual - https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/J_F3.pdf

Of course it might be possible to turn it into a USB-C audio recorder by FW update, but typically that would be to enable a USB mic to be connected.  I don't think that would be something that most users of such a device would want to do, so it probably wouldn't be worth their effort. 

I'm aware of only one device on the market that records from USB-C audio devices (obviously apart from PC/Mac/Android/iOS devices) and that's the DJI Action 2 video camera.  However that device only records to AAC format with no options to change audio settings, and while the audio quality is fine in relation to the use case and design intent of the device, it has no particular advantage over phones for location recording of audio.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 07:40:59 PM by Ozpeter »

Offline kindms

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2022, 11:32:48 AM »

I can believe that Sonosax has better A/D than Zoom, but I don't know how the iPod Touch would be a better bitbox than a dedicated audio recorder. Or are you just saying that in the context of using the M2D2 in front of it?


Just in the context of running the M2D2.  If you run the M2D2 digital-out, you might as well run to the iPod touch or an iPhone as the M2D2 won't do 32 bits.  If you run analog-out from the M2D2 you would get the A/D  of the F3.  My iPhone XR running Metarecorder runs for about 10-11 hours, when powering a DPA MMA-A and 4060 mics, and I calculate it would run around 13-14 hours with the M2D2.  An iPod Touch 7 recording (with Metarecorder) from an M2D2 (the M2D2 battery powering the mics and its own amp/AD) runs about 5 hours, which is a bit longer than the M2D2 gets on its internal battery.

I know my AD and how to maximize it. I again was simply liking the idea of a small dedicated recorder that i can use with the USB out on the M2D2. I have a free iphone7 that i have used successfully and its great. I can run it all day long etc as you say. But at the end of the day its also a phone and it cannot accept anything but USB audio. A small dedicated recorder that can do both USB audio as well as have other features I might find useful in small recorder is of value. Plus as well as the iphone works etc, I find the adapter and cabling a little clunky. So reducing that would be cool. I dont know if it would be worth $300+ cool. But a small recorder that has a USB and/or Digital in would be awesome for me. I have considered building a pi to do it but it would be bigger and more costly than a phone etc
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Offline kindms

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2022, 11:34:52 AM »
I found the manual online - concerning the USB interface, it says (according to Google Translate) -

"Connect to a PC or smartphone / tablet to connect with an SD card reader and audio interface
Can be used. It supports USB bus power operation."

In the menus you can select whether you want to connect to PC/Mac, or to smartphone / tablet.
There are diagrams showing connection to PC/Mac or smartphones/tablets but no reference to connecting a USB-C audio device.

"You can set the loopback and monitor sound when using F3 as an audio interface.
Set loopback
Mix the playback sound of your computer or smartphone / tablet with the input sound of F3, and then use your computer or smartphone again.
You can send it to a phone / tablet (loopback).
You can add narration to the music played on your computer, record it on your computer, or stream it. "

Link to the manual - https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/J_F3.pdf

Of course it might be possible to turn it into a USB-C audio recorder by FW update, but typically that would be to enable a USB mic to be connected.  I don't think that would be something that most users of such a device would want to do, so it probably wouldn't be worth their effort. 

I'm aware of only one device on the market that records from USB-C audio devices (obviously apart from PC/Mac/Android/iOS devices) and that's the DJI Action 2 video camera.  However that device only records to AAC format with no options to change audio settings, and while the audio quality is fine in relation to the use case and design intent of the device, it has no particular advantage over phones for location recording of audio.

the sound devices mix pre II series do it
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 05:27:42 PM by kindms »
AKG c426, AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
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Offline gaijin

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2022, 12:35:15 PM »
I found the manual online - concerning the USB interface, it says (according to Google Translate) -

"Connect to a PC or smartphone / tablet to connect with an SD card reader and audio interface
Can be used. It supports USB bus power operation."

In the menus you can select whether you want to connect to PC/Mac, or to smartphone / tablet.
There are diagrams showing connection to PC/Mac or smartphones/tablets but no reference to connecting a USB-C audio device.

"You can set the loopback and monitor sound when using F3 as an audio interface.
Set loopback
Mix the playback sound of your computer or smartphone / tablet with the input sound of F3, and then use your computer or smartphone again.
You can send it to a phone / tablet (loopback).
You can add narration to the music played on your computer, record it on your computer, or stream it. "

Link to the manual - https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/J_F3.pdf

Of course it might be possible to turn it into a USB-C audio recorder by FW update, but typically that would be to enable a USB mic to be connected.  I don't think that would be something that most users of such a device would want to do, so it probably wouldn't be worth their effort. 

I'm aware of only one device on the market that records from USB-C audio devices (obviously apart from PC/Mac/Android/iOS devices) and that's the DJI Action 2 video camera.  However that device only records to AAC format with no options to change audio settings, and while the audio quality is fine in relation to the use case and design intent of the device, it has no particular advantage over phones for location recording of audio.

the sound devices mix pre II series do it

I'm really curious about the details of this.  Does this approach work with any proper USB input device?  For example, if I connect a Shure MV-88+ to the MixPre3,6-ii, will I be able to record a set of tracks using it's USB connection?  All the references I have seen to the USB audio connectivity is in the context of to PC connections. Is there somewhere that explains how the functionality you're describing works?

Thanks in advance for any detail you can share.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 12:37:00 PM by gaijin »

Offline kindms

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2022, 05:26:59 PM »
I found the manual online - concerning the USB interface, it says (according to Google Translate) -

"Connect to a PC or smartphone / tablet to connect with an SD card reader and audio interface
Can be used. It supports USB bus power operation."

In the menus you can select whether you want to connect to PC/Mac, or to smartphone / tablet.
There are diagrams showing connection to PC/Mac or smartphones/tablets but no reference to connecting a USB-C audio device.

"You can set the loopback and monitor sound when using F3 as an audio interface.
Set loopback
Mix the playback sound of your computer or smartphone / tablet with the input sound of F3, and then use your computer or smartphone again.
You can send it to a phone / tablet (loopback).
You can add narration to the music played on your computer, record it on your computer, or stream it. "

Link to the manual - https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/J_F3.pdf

Of course it might be possible to turn it into a USB-C audio recorder by FW update, but typically that would be to enable a USB mic to be connected.  I don't think that would be something that most users of such a device would want to do, so it probably wouldn't be worth their effort. 

I'm aware of only one device on the market that records from USB-C audio devices (obviously apart from PC/Mac/Android/iOS devices) and that's the DJI Action 2 video camera.  However that device only records to AAC format with no options to change audio settings, and while the audio quality is fine in relation to the use case and design intent of the device, it has no particular advantage over phones for location recording of audio.

the sound devices mix pre II series do it

I'm really curious about the details of this.  Does this approach work with any proper USB input device?  For example, if I connect a Shure MV-88+ to the MixPre3,6-ii, will I be able to record a set of tracks using it's USB connection?  All the references I have seen to the USB audio connectivity is in the context of to PC connections. Is there somewhere that explains how the functionality you're describing works?

Thanks in advance for any detail you can share.

It would seem I am WRONG. I was under the impression that they do allow USB audio in but from what Im reading in the manual it would seem that isn't correct. It seems it does require a computer as others have mentioned up thread about other devices.
AKG c426, AKG414 XLS/ST, AKG ck61, ck22, >nBob colettes >PFA > V3, SD MixPre >  TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2, Sony M10
Little Bear tube Pre >Outlaw Audio 2200 Monoblocks > VR-2's

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2022, 08:14:40 PM »
I'd lay money that before long, recording from USB devices will be implemented on location recording equipment - persuasive use case would be recording from kit like the Rode Wireless Go 2 USB output, or from the equivalent DJI device.  Or from the Sennheiser Ambeo binaural headset!  If DJI can do this with their Action 2 camera, then there's clearly no basic technical problem - unless there would be a conflict with using the recorder as an audio interface to a PC.  Maybe you can't do both in one device.

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2022, 12:54:57 PM »

Offline gaijin

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2022, 01:44:14 PM »

Offline aaronji

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2022, 04:14:10 PM »
What's up with that screen, though? It's 2022 and all. It would probably only add a couple of bucks to the list price to have something a little more contemporary. It's worse than a first generation GameBoy...

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2022, 09:07:19 PM »
One concerning thing I just caught in the specs:

Quote
Phantom Power
Channel total 10 mA or less

Typically you see a spec of of 10 mA max for each channel. Something to be aware of when selecting mics. Most good mics don't have very high current consumption anymore, but you couldn't use a pair of AKG C414 or Gefell M221, for example.

Looks like I was way off base on this. It's 10 mA per channel, as you would expect.
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2022, 07:46:45 AM »
I have asked B&H whether there is any support for M/S mics - given that it's designed partly for video I would be surprised if it didn't even decode M/S to X/Y for headphone monitoring.  I really hope they have not overlooked this - it could be a dealbreaker for me (which would save me some money of course!).

[Edit - reading the English manual at https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_F3.pdf it looks like there is no M/S support.  That astonishes me.]
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 08:00:08 AM by Ozpeter »

Offline Niels

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Re: Zoom F3
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2022, 08:36:56 AM »
I have been out of the loop for some years regarding 32bit float.
Is the format now widely adapted, also in the entry level DAW's?

When the MixPre II series and F6 came out, I recall I checked and found out I couldn't work on the files in GarageBand or Hindenburg Lite.
Has that changed?
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