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Author Topic: High bias cassettes  (Read 1383 times)

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Offline ts

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High bias cassettes
« on: March 13, 2022, 09:32:15 AM »
Any source for these? I can only find normal bias new stock. High bias are old stock and way overpriced.

Offline GLouie

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2022, 12:56:36 PM »
Tascam is selling a new type II cassette. I know nothing about them or where to buy.

https://tascam.com/us/product/424/top

Offline jb63

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2022, 01:26:50 PM »
Wait. Cassettes? We're going back to cassettes?
I have volumes of old high bias cassettes I'm done with. Recorded on once, transferred, done.
You can have them if you like.
once again, lost in all the noise

Offline GLouie

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2022, 01:44:20 PM »
And I note that B&H has them "coming soon" for only $22 each. Maybe those NOS aren't so overpriced!

Offline ts

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2022, 05:13:34 PM »
Maxell XLill's are around 20 each. Way cheaper than that Tascam that B&H will be carrying. I guess I'll buy a 5 pack of the type 1's.

I also have a bunch of once used cassettes, but they're all masters and I have some kind of attachment to them. Don't think I could ever record over them. BTW, I'm reinstalling the original head unit back in my Land Rover and it has a cassette player. Just going to transfer some LP's to cassette for road listening.

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2022, 06:11:35 PM »
I have to add in here about a website I have recently been "radicalized" by: http://www.tapeheads.net     >:D
These guys are into collecting serious cassette machinery and vintage audio of all types. They also have a sub set of them who purchase old, preferably gently used, used tapes. The prices for a once or twice recorded on Maxell UDXLII can go for $1-2 each!
But better than the prices on new tapes. I only joined to learn more about available cassette decks, which these guys feel are more "repairable" than others, etc. Now, I spend time reading about mix tape making etc.  8) That said, some of these dudes have SERIOUS playback systems and I enjoy looking at their photos of them.

The site is a 'Moderated site" in that you have to request a registration, like many sites.
PLUS, in order to sell in their classifieds you have to have 25 or 30 posts (can't recall which)
http://www.tapeheads.net/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_register
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Offline ts

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2022, 10:29:05 AM »
I've lurked on that site quite a bit. I don't think I could ever come up with 25+ posts. Way too much testosterone flowing around. A good example is trying to wade through the best 3 head deck thread. Good luck!

Anyway, I'm going to be getting some service done on my Nak deck soon. I found a good local shop to do it. He knew it has a Sankyo motor so he must be somewhat familiar with them. So with a fresh service I thought I would do some recording. It's a Cassette Deck 1.

Offline Gil

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2022, 10:43:22 AM »
Jesus. I've had a wrapped XLII-S in my desk drawer at work for over three years now.
"Let's go do some crimes."

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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2022, 11:42:40 AM »
I've lurked on that site quite a bit. I don't think I could ever come up with 25+ posts. Way too much testosterone flowing around. A good example is trying to wade through the best 3 head deck thread. Good luck!

Anyway, I'm going to be getting some service done on my Nak deck soon. I found a good local shop to do it. He knew it has a Sankyo motor so he must be somewhat familiar with them. So with a fresh service I thought I would do some recording. It's a Cassette Deck 1.
Tony, I could probably find 5-10 used once XLII's I would send you. Oddly, I have zero unused, wrapped, NOS cassettes
PM me for further chat on this if interested
BTW-- I thought I couldn't post 25 times and am now up over 300!!! You just have to post a lot of "nice deck" comments      lol
Although the one time I tried to set a person straight re physics and acoustics, that dude got pissed that I was challenging him with basic science.  >:D
Another poster wrote me to say don't take it to heart, it is the snake oil side of the group- those who KNOW silver is better than gold for conductance, etc (e.g. as opposed to each having trade-offs)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 11:57:11 AM by rocksuitcase »
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Offline ts

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2022, 10:48:01 AM »
I've lurked on that site quite a bit. I don't think I could ever come up with 25+ posts. Way too much testosterone flowing around. A good example is trying to wade through the best 3 head deck thread. Good luck!

Anyway, I'm going to be getting some service done on my Nak deck soon. I found a good local shop to do it. He knew it has a Sankyo motor so he must be somewhat familiar with them. So with a fresh service I thought I would do some recording. It's a Cassette Deck 1.
Tony, I could probably find 5-10 used once XLII's I would send you. Oddly, I have zero unused, wrapped, NOS cassettes
PM me for further chat on this if interested
BTW-- I thought I couldn't post 25 times and am now up over 300!!! You just have to pots a lot of "nice deck" comments      lol
Although the one time I tried to set a person straight re physics and acoustics, that dude got pissed that I was challenging him with basic science.  >:D
Another poster wrote me to say don't take it to heart, it is the snake oil side of the group- those who KNOW silver is better than gold for conductance, etc (e.g. as opposed to each having trade-offs)

Hey Kyle, I actually found a box of ten that I would not mind taping over. They're masters but nothing worth keeping the original of. Thanks anyway for the offer.

Yea, I could do 25 of the nice deck comment, but that's about it. Most of those guys are way over the top for me.🙄

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2022, 12:08:49 PM »
^^^^^^^ cool
Back OT, sort of   >:D
On tapeheads I read that a lot of them prefer the Type I, normal bias tapes for their recording of mixtapes etc. Chrome, or High bias was supposed to best the frequency response and saturation levels of recordings, which it did, but also did not ,depending on whose opinion or lab results you favor.

secondly,  I never knew back in the day, but now it is established knowledge that the two countries where most tape was manufactured, Germany and Japan had different standards and thus varying performance depending on which tape one used.  (ANSI vs DIN) So, Japanese manufacturers such as TDK, Maxell, and Sony were set as defaults for the Japanese built machines (Nakamichi, Sony etc) while BASF and AGFA were the standard used for EU/German decks such as Studer, Tandberg, Uher, B&O etc.

Finally, of course, there were only about a dozen factories worldwide which made tape, they then branded and shelled tapes to specific brand instructions/design/standards.
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Offline relefunt

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2022, 05:39:57 PM »
Ther  is a US source for newly produced high bias cassettes but they are basically awful. I’m not going to link to their website, until they get their act together.

With a great deck like a Nakamichi ZX-9 or a Dragon, decent Type I’s can sound amazing. With a very good deck (other Naks) they can sound surprisingly sweet.

Anyone wanting to give away used-once cassettes should first take a look at what they going for on the Bay. Unopened ones like Maxell XL-II will be priced around $10 a piece or maybe slightly less.

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my local taping blog: milwaukeetaper.com

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2022, 06:16:38 PM »
Anyone wanting to give away used-once cassettes should first take a look at what they going for on the Bay. Unopened ones like Maxell XL-II will be priced around $10 a piece or maybe slightly less.
To be clear, I was willing to "give them away" (ten of them) to 'ts' on Taperssection not only because I know him from here, and for many years, but because we are kindred spirits in GD LMA uploading. I am not giving them to thrift shops or anything. I have been in discussions with some tapeheads members about what to do with about 500 "gently used" Maxell XLII's. (1989-1991 generation) They basically all have 1st through 4th gen mid 90's AUD GD recordings which are of no use to anyone these days for the music. And even then the market rate for used-once Chromes is about $1-3 each. (relefunt, I don't know you, but I'd make the same offer as you are a TS type)    8)
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Offline mrfender

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2022, 08:08:07 PM »
You might check out Goodwill.com, auction site for the thrift stores. Quite a few lots of "new" TDK, Maxell and Sony tapes.
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Offline ts

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2022, 09:16:52 AM »
You might check out Goodwill.com, auction site for the thrift stores. Quite a few lots of "new" TDK, Maxell and Sony tapes.

Thanks for the tip!

Offline lsd2525

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2022, 10:49:06 AM »
^^^^^^^ cool
Back OT, sort of   >:D
On tapeheads I read that a lot of them prefer the Type I, normal bias tapes for their recording of mixtapes etc. Chrome, or High bias was supposed to best the frequency response and saturation levels of recordings, which it did, but also did not ,depending on whose opinion or lab results you favor.

secondly,  I never knew back in the day, but now it is established knowledge that the two countries where most tape was manufactured, Germany and Japan had different standards and thus varying performance depending on which tape one used.  (ANSI vs DIN) So, Japanese manufacturers such as TDK, Maxell, and Sony were set as defaults for the Japanese built machines (Nakamichi, Sony etc) while BASF and AGFA were the standard used for EU/German decks such as Studer, Tandberg, Uher, B&O etc.

Finally, of course, there were only about a dozen factories worldwide which made tape, they then branded and shelled tapes to specific brand instructions/design/standards.

That's interesting. I used to use BASF's back in the day to record albums on for the car. Always XLII's and the occasional TDK for Dead shows.
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Offline ts

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2022, 11:09:54 AM »
^^^^^^^ cool
Back OT, sort of   >:D
On tapeheads I read that a lot of them prefer the Type I, normal bias tapes for their recording of mixtapes etc. Chrome, or High bias was supposed to best the frequency response and saturation levels of recordings, which it did, but also did not ,depending on whose opinion or lab results you favor.

secondly,  I never knew back in the day, but now it is established knowledge that the two countries where most tape was manufactured, Germany and Japan had different standards and thus varying performance depending on which tape one used.  (ANSI vs DIN) So, Japanese manufacturers such as TDK, Maxell, and Sony were set as defaults for the Japanese built machines (Nakamichi, Sony etc) while BASF and AGFA were the standard used for EU/German decks such as Studer, Tandberg, Uher, B&O etc.

Finally, of course, there were only about a dozen factories worldwide which made tape, they then branded and shelled tapes to specific brand instructions/design/standards.

That's interesting. I used to use BASF's back in the day to record albums on for the car. Always XLII's and the occasional TDK for Dead shows.

I never tried BASF. Always XLII, TDK SA's or the occasional Sony. One time I used those crazy heavy metal tapes for New Years run. For the final 95 run I stumbled on a brand called Thats and did all but one show with them. Don't even remember where I bought them or why. Funny thing is today, those tapes fail way more often than any other, much older tapes I have. Yes, I occasionally listen to my old master cassettes. :headphones: The "Thats" tapes from 95 would fold while playing back at an alarming rate. Pop in a 10 - 15 year older Maxell and no problems. Same deck of course. :shrug:

Offline DSatz

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2022, 04:12:29 PM »
That information about tape manufacture quoted above doesn't sound right to me. Rather, in the mid-1970s there was a difference between Nakamichi and EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD regarding the correct playback equalization for type II tapes and beyond. Nakamichi decks played such tapes back about 2 dB brighter (and a little noisier) than all other deck manufacturers. This was of course used in hifi showrooms to show the "audible superiority" of Nakamichi decks--bring in your favorite cassettes and compare; you hear more musical detail on a Nakamichi! --until eventually they realized that this was undermining them (tapes recorded on their decks sounded dull on all other decks, after all; you can't have one without the other), and they brought their decks' response to very nearly the standard that EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD had been following all along, including other Japanese brands such as Sony and TEAC.

I made hundreds of serious classical and documentary recordings on cassettes all during the 1970s. I still have many of those tapes, and during the past several years have transferred or re-transferred most of them. In the 1970s I favored type II tapes (e.g. TDK "Super Avilyn", or sometimes BASF CrO2 C-120s which were the only type II C-120s I could find) because of their superior high frequency headroom and lower noise. But I wish now that I had used type I tapes instead, because the print-through on the type IIs is very distracting in some cases. There's good hardware and software for moderating tape hiss nowadays, more than enough to make up the dynamic range difference. But nothing can cure print, and it only gets worse with time in storage.

I had good experience with type IV (metal) tape on decks that were properly designed to record on it (it required substantially higher bias current than the other types), but I didn't use enough of it to form an opinion about whether it has print-through problems or not.

--best regards
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 04:14:21 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: High bias cassettes
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2022, 06:26:50 PM »
DSatz. And also each large manufacturer had differing designs for each region.
Here is a guy who has curated these articles from the past which tapeheads dudes cite a lot:
https://audiochrome.blogspot.com/2020/02/audio-magazine-cassette-tape-reviews.html
and test he has done on varying tape types:
https://audiochrome.blogspot.com/2020/12/index-to-cassette-tape-measurements.html

I will admit I do not get into the medium for the same reasons these fellas do. I just want accurate machines which can take off all these damn cassette master recordings. So I read their forum and find some interesting stuff among the chest pumping about which is best. There are some amazing DIY guys who share their work on there.
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