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Author Topic: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022  (Read 7602 times)

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Offline NSL

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2022, 02:03:03 PM »
ITT: People upset they spent thousands of dollars on gear when cheaper gear makes tapes just as good and sometimes better
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Offline grawk

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #61 on: June 29, 2022, 02:35:28 PM »
I'm happy when anyone tapes.  I'm happy when people make better tapes than I do at the shows I tape.  Better tapes is always the goal.

It is possible to make great tapes with gear that isn't expensive?  Of course.

What does expensive gear get you?  Sometimes nothing, sometimes a better product.  Some of these companies have been in business a very long time, so you get the assurance that you'll be able to get support down the road if you need it.  That matters to some people.

Why did I buy DPA microphones?  Because I like the form factor, available pre-amp options, off axis response, detail resolution, and general sound characteristics.  Before DPA, I had schoeps.  If DPA hadn't gone to modular cables and hadn't had microdot options, I probably would have gone schoeps Nbob again.  Because to my ears, listening on my equipment, and for my use cases, they're the next best option.

If I had unlimited money, would I always pick the rigs I own? No, but I'd probably pick them most of the time.  But sure, every scenario has a different potential solution.

All that said, no one should feel bad about using what they like, even the "zoomies".  Make your recordings.  Do what you like.  Unless you're doing it for hire, it's all on you. 
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2022, 02:38:12 PM »
This is ridiculous. Spend a couple of hundred bucks on Churchies>Churchie pre>deck and you can make OK tapes. That's what I made when I had a pair. That's it. Ok is fine, but please don't pretend that every time, top shelf mics in the same spot won't destroy the Church rig. Find me one example otherwise.

Here's a good example. https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=197917.0
Church mics ($35 used) directly into the miniplug input of a Tascam DR701d vs MBHO KA300/Naiant PFAs(~$1000)/DR701d. Mics run taped together.

It's surprisingly hard to tell the difference between the two. There are differences but not $965 worth of differences.

Law of diminishing returns...

Gets me annoyed when people turn these conversations into "super high end or give up" especially coming from our moderator with his go big or go home comment.

My best recordings have been made with mid/low end mics - Studio Projects, ADK, Berliner and what I consider the low end of the high end AKG, Peluso and MBHO. I did well when I had Neumann and Schoeps but I'm a blue collar working stiff and those didn't provide me with enough of an upgrade in quality to justify the increase in price.
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Online MakersMarc

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2022, 03:13:36 PM »
Hey Roger, is there a second clip?
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Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2022, 03:15:44 PM »
Killer example goodcooker. I'd implore anybody asking for proof that cheap mics don't sound as good to provide proof of the opposite, or at least quantify in what ways the more expensive ones 'outpunch' the cheaper ones. I've asked like 4 times and have yet to get a single response...  :shrug:

If I had unlimited money, would I always pick the rigs I own? No, but I'd probably pick them most of the time.  But sure, every scenario has a different potential solution.

All that said, no one should feel bad about using what they like, even the "zoomies".  Make your recordings.  Do what you like.  Unless you're doing it for hire, it's all on you.

Yep, exactly.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 03:18:04 PM by opsopcopolis »

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2022, 03:16:33 PM »
Hey Roger, is there a second clip?

From the original post:
First 20 seconds is one pair, the next 20 seconds the other and so on...until around 1:45 mark there is one minute of each until the end.
The fact that you asked kinda proves the point

Offline fandelive

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2022, 03:28:45 PM »
Here's a good example. https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=197917.0
Church mics ($35 used) directly into the miniplug input of a Tascam DR701d vs MBHO KA300/Naiant PFAs(~$1000)/DR701d. Mics run taped together.

It's surprisingly hard to tell the difference between the two. There are differences but not $965 worth of differences.

Law of diminishing returns...

I don't consider myself as an elitist. I listened to your sample and both mics sounded pretty much the same. Only what I suspect to be the MBHO sounded slightly more defined to me, less muddy.

With that being said, this band only consisted in singers, acoustic guitars and a bass.

My guess is the more audio information your mics will have to deal with, the more the most expensive will outperform the cheapest.

Still, not saying it's worth the price gap.

As for the recordings I'm grabbing on torrent sites for more than 20 years now, I tend to rely more on who actually taped the shows than with what equipment.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 03:34:25 PM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Online MakersMarc

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2022, 03:37:33 PM »
I know I'm an asshole, but i hate when someone posts Zoomie audio of, say, Dead Company. And the ticket was like $250. For fucks sake, if you can buy that ticket you can buy mics. Even cheap ones is better than a Zoomie. Pissing in the gene pool.


ah, this is why I stopped posting in this sort of thread. I don't give a shit really, and my opinion means nada. I was somehow wired to want to output the very best product possible, period. Nothing less will do. It's a character defect that I've failed to stomp out. Kinda expensive too. I tip my hat to those with self-restraint, if you like your setup, go forth and have fun.  :cheers:
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2022, 03:46:23 PM »
There are plenty of ‘lower cost’ mikes that can make weak recordings.
There are plenty of ‘lower cost’ mikes that can make great recordings.
There are plenty of ‘higher cost’ mikes that can make weak recordings.
But, consistently…. ‘higher cost’ mikes make better recordings consistently.
‘Cost’ of mikes is purely subjective.

All mikes make better recordings when the user knows how to use the specific mikes.
All recordings are better than no recording.
IMO, don’t compare sources unless you want to spend money on more gear.
Being happy with what ya got is priceless..  until you hear a better source.  ;)
IMO.
YMMV.
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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2022, 03:50:26 PM »
Hey Roger, is there a second clip?

From the original post:
First 20 seconds is one pair, the next 20 seconds the other and so on...until around 1:45 mark there is one minute of each until the end.
The fact that you asked kinda proves the point

not so much. i haven't listened at all.


I think of it this way; the span between say C11/14 to 4Vs, we're talking maybe about a 15-20% difference, if even. For example: I taped Mule fob last week, the sound was pristine at 25'. A Church tape would have sounded good. I wish I could live with 85%, it is waaay cheaper.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 04:02:05 PM by MakersMarc »
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520/Sansui 221>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2022, 04:05:45 PM »
I think of it this way; the span between say C11/14 to 4Vs, we're talking maybe about a 15-20% difference, if even. For example: I taped Mule fob last week, the sound was pristine at 25'. A Church tape would have sounded good. I wish I could live with 85%, it is waaay cheaper.

yeah, but 15-20% difference in what? That's my point. What are you measuring? Goodness?

Offline aaronji

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2022, 04:44:40 PM »
Buy what YOU like. Use what you buy. Simple.

Personally, I make my recordings mostly for myself. If nobody else listens and/or likes them, I don't really care.

yeah, but 15-20% difference in what? That's my point. What are you measuring? Goodness?

In my opinion, the biggest difference is that high-quality mics (not necessarily super expensive, incidentally) have smoother off-axis response. They also usually have better frequency curves, handle transients better, and have much better after-sales support as well a wide range of accessories.

In that vein, it is a mystery to me why Church mics are so frequently touted. Mine (CA-11) were wonky off-axis and, quite frankly, Chris Church is a churlish shit-heel. Completely unreasonable response and service times. Barely literate if you're lucky enough to get an answer in the first place.

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2022, 04:51:52 PM »
Recently I've been using Sennheiser ME104 (cardioid) and also ME102 (omni)
The Omni are similar to other good mics, but the card is special.  Very small, and very good sounding.Getting these on ebay for approx $100 each, cable + connector + capsule + optional metal windscreen.
Work well on plug in power (eg., Sony PCM-M10 or Zoom F1).Have not tried loud shows, but really good sound for the money IMO.
Enjoy,  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2022, 05:24:05 PM »
You know, for some people

Freeze Dried Tasters Choice works for them, rather than Starbucks

Cell phone camera shots are just as good as a Nikon SLR

Church Microphones work for them

And for those people, if they don't notice the difference, then more power to them

Reminds of the shot in Pulp Fiction where Vincent tells Jimmy how good his coffee is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1-1dUbBjgE

Ultimately, its your money and your ears, and if you are happy with the rig, then that's great.  Trying to justify better microphones to someone who drinks freeze dried coffee because Starbucks doesn't taste 10x better to them, is a fool's errand. 
Regards,
Scooter123

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mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2022, 05:26:24 PM »
 :banging head:

 

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