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Which mics are sample 1?

Sample 1 is mk41s
7 (50%)
Sample 1 is V1s
7 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Author Topic: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap  (Read 1556 times)

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Offline checht

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Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« on: July 28, 2022, 12:00:28 PM »
Been playing around with a matched pair of V1s, purchased used on Reverb for $450. With 4 caps per mic, that's a lot of kit for the $$. Still deciding what I think of 'em.
Mostly been using the omni caps in a OMT4 config w 41s in the center.

This was recorded last night at So Many Roads in Denver.
Mics onstage near corner of kit on bass side @ 10'.
ORTF with mics pointing down and a bit towards the house.

mk41s > pfa > mp6II
V1s > mp6II

Which do you prefer?

Sample 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ym96vc34tm5szl3/sample%201.wav?dl=0

Sample 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/boekhz7e9pk5dj5/sample%202.wav?dl=0
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2022, 12:55:02 PM »
prefer sample 2
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 06:03:31 PM by MakersMarc »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2022, 02:16:03 PM »
Will try and give a listen tonight..
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Offline bluegrass_brad

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2022, 04:37:52 PM »
Sample one sounds the best to me. More rounded and full. Sample two is a little too present for me.
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2022, 04:45:53 PM »
Sample one sounds the best to me. More rounded and full. Sample two is a little too present for me.

Agreed. 2 isn't bad, but 1 is a modest but significant improvement.

Offline Flynn

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2022, 05:03:19 PM »
to my ears overall music and feel would be #1. Although the vocals on #1 sounds a bit removed, while the vocals on #2 seem more even or in line with the mix.

Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2022, 05:11:26 PM »
Thanks for listening. Would be interested to have y'all vote which is mk41s...
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
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Recordings at LMA

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2022, 05:33:44 PM »
Sample 1 has better high hat.  Yes, fuller.
Regards,
Scooter123

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mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline Clem Cheesy

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2022, 02:00:20 AM »
Vocalist sounds a bit like David Bromberg from the 70's.   8)

Sample one has "fast", very slightly sibilant character to my admittedly strange ears.

Both are very listenable, clear and not fatiguing, but sample two has a "familiar" quality.

Were any screens or foam used?
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Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2022, 11:29:17 AM »
Vocalist sounds a bit like David Bromberg from the 70's.   8)

Sample one has "fast", very slightly sibilant character to my admittedly strange ears.

Both are very listenable, clear and not fatiguing, but sample two has a "familiar" quality.

Were any screens or foam used?
Good question. No screens or foam.
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2022, 01:37:11 PM »
1 sounds like a slightly more open pattern.  A bit more low frequency fullness, more room, more audience reaction off-axis, less sibilant.

I prefer 1 in isolation.  But 2 could be useful in combination with other mics, leveraging its tighter directivity (which cannot be modified), and perhaps it's frequency response difference (which can).  Hard to tell how much the frequency balance could be EQ'd to preference without trying it, which is generally my real world comparison on that aspect between microphones.  Sometimes that can be done simply and easily, sometimes it can't be.  I think that has to do with the presence of narrow band resonances or lack of them and overall response smoothness, regardless of the apparent response and smoothness prior to any correction.  If you want to do that or not is an important question.

So generally 1, with the caveats above. 
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Craig T

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2022, 01:44:39 PM »
1
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2022, 02:05:04 PM »
I am not current with the OMT configs.
So, is this OMT4 with ORTF in the middle?
Omni + Super Card?
How far spaced are omni’s?
Set up on side of stage?? Or front stage to the side?

Both sound great to me, but different.
One is airier and the other is tighter.
One is fuller and the other is slimmer.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2022, 02:15:52 PM »
Yug:

Mics are onstage, about 12' upstage from lip. They're 5' stage L of center, near corner of drum kit on bass side @ 10' high.
Both pairs are in ORTF, with mics pointing down at the floor, with roughly 15º tilt out of vertical towards the house.

Does that help?
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

Online goodcooker

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2022, 02:19:21 PM »

I like sample 1. Sounds more smooth and round. Things I associate with the mk41 at close distance.
Sample 2 sounds like it has a bit more audience and some grit to the high end. Not bad at all just different.
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2022, 02:30:20 PM »
For the record, I prefer #1 from that location/config.

Thanks for the details C.
So the V1’s are Omni in ORTF?

Would love to hear a comp of V1 hyper and MK41 in same config if you ever get a chance.
Is that A-Bear??.. I haven’t heard him in a while.. great stuff!

Edit: sorry I was confused by your first post.. are the V1 caps hyper in comp?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 03:24:04 PM by yug du nord »
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2022, 03:29:49 PM »
Actually, those are the V1 hypers and the mk41s, both ORTF.

I've used the omni caps when doing OMT4, but thought it'd be most informative to make this comparison w same caps.

Yes, music is A-Bear and Friends. The placement and aiming is unusual, but over time and lots of shows w various A-Bear bands, I've found it works well and reduces audience noise considerably.

I've been staying w Dave and fam for a couple weeks of shows ahead of TTB Red Rocks tonight and tomorrow. Been lots of great music and a great opportunity to learn and improve technique.

Cheers

Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2022, 04:38:42 PM »
So which is which?

Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2022, 05:47:53 PM »
Gonna wait 24 hours for more replies, then will spill 😀
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

mcfoster

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2022, 10:23:55 PM »
The jury is in

Offline adam111

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2022, 10:24:34 PM »
Sample 1 seemed more brittle in the high-end, Sample 2 felt more balanced and un-hyped, with clean/detailed transients. I don't know anything about the Vanguard caps but would guess #2 is Schoeps.

Offline crackmc

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2022, 01:24:43 AM »
checht is obsessed with his Vanguards and i feel responsible

love both samples

you'll love it
it's a way of life

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2022, 02:53:06 AM »
Vanguards holds up well in this comp.
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Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2022, 05:04:52 AM »
Many thanks, all!

Sample 1 is Vanguards. Clem nailed it.

Pleased with their performance, now I'd like to compare the other caps w appropriate mics.
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2022, 12:25:11 PM »
checht is obsessed with his Vanguards and i feel responsible

love both samples
It is entirely your fault.
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

Offline bluegrass_brad

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2022, 03:18:28 PM »
I'm impressed with the Vanguards. I wonder what those lollipop capsules sound like?
CK1x, CK2x, CK3x > Hub Industry Cables > Naiant PFA or MK46 > 460B
CK1, CK22, CK8, CK63 > 460b
Primo EMU4520 (chopped) > Hub Industry Cables > AT8531

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Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2022, 05:24:09 PM »
I'm impressed with the Vanguards. I wonder what those lollipop capsules sound like?
A friend in the Bay Area uses them in his studio, likes 'em for close micing acoustic instruments and vocals.
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2022, 05:25:03 PM »
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline fanofjam

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2022, 09:28:30 PM »
Late to the party, but I guess I like presence because before I read the reveal I immediately and 100% liked 2 better.  Crazy!

Offline achalsey

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2022, 12:41:27 AM »
I'm out of the loop, so apologize if this has been covered, but has there been any comparisons between the Vanguard V1 and Avantone CK-1?

Offline checht

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Re: Mic comp: MK41 vs Vanguard V1 w hyper cap
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2022, 12:24:44 PM »
I'm out of the loop, so apologize if this has been covered, but has there been any comparisons between the Vanguard V1 and Avantone CK-1?
Great question. No comparison afaik.
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6II -OR- Naiant IPA > Sony PCM-A10
Vanguard V1s matched pair
Niaint x8
Recordings at LMA

 

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