Topic: Cloud Storage Options - August 2022

[vanark]

Cloud storage options - I am embarking on a project to organize my files. They currently reside on many external/bare drives, duplicate copies, etc., but I never know where a particular show is. Rather than have this stuff on external drives, it makes sense for me to organize them to the cloud. I've heard that Google has an unlimited option that can be shared with 5 others, but I can never seem to find that option - all I ever find is 2 TB option. I think the other option is hightail which is very clear on how to get the unlimited option for $12 month (billed annually.) I know a bunch of folks use both, but looking to understand the Google option that folks are using.

I also checked out Backblaze but that seems to be more of a backup option. Backup of the files is one feature, but sharing is another and they cap daily transfer at 1 GB and that is about 1 download of a 24 bit show.

Google One - not sure they still have the unlimited option, shared or otherwise (unless it is an Enterprise account which is going to be spendy)
Hightail - $12/mo. (billed annually), unlimited storage, 25 GB individual file size limit (might impact some, but not me)
Backblaze Personal - $7/mo. unlimited storage but file sharing is capped pretty low.

[guitard]

This doesn't really answer your question, but it is related.

After struggling with Backblaze for the last few years, I went with a Synology NAS (network attached storage).  It has four 16TB hard drives in it and can safely backup 41TBs and still survive with all data intact, even if one of the hard drives crashes.  The problem with Backblaze is that the drives you've backed up have to be connected to the computer.  I had ten or so drives connected and it was getting kind of hard to manage.

I still separately backup everything to an HD, but now I don't worry about always having to keep the backup HDs connected to my computer like I did with Backblaze.

[vanark]

Yes, at the moment, I'm not interested in an on-site hardware solution. I'm happy to just have a laptop that I turn on when I need it. I used to run servers and RAID and am capable of it, but simply have zero desire.

[aaronji]

I don't know if it meets your particular requirements, but I have been happy with IDrive. Well reviewed, good encryption, multiple devices. More expensive than some options and cheaper than others...

[vanark]

I don't know if it meets your particular requirements, but I have been happy with IDrive. Well reviewed, good encryption, multiple devices. More expensive than some options and cheaper than others...

I heard that they cap file links when you share them to 2 GB. That really isn't very workable.

[daspyknows]

I use Hightail and generally happy with it

[vanark]

I use Hightail and generally happy with it

I'm leaning that way at the moment.

Can you link to a folder or just a file?

[aaronji]

I heard that they cap file links when you share them to 2 GB. That really isn't very workable.

I am not sure that's true; I just shared a 2.4 GB file and downloaded it successfully via the share link. There is, however, a major limitation, which is a maximum of 25 shares. Whether or not that matters depends on your usage, of course.

I know I have downloaded a lot of files via Hightail and it worked well. I have no idea what, if any, limitations that system entails on the other side, though.

[vanark]

I followed the Google "Enterprise" signup process (the only unlimited option) and ended up at $30 per user per month. Just an FYI for those looking at options.

[voltronic]

I have been very happy with MEGA. You get a very generous 20 GB included with the free plan, and the paid tiers quickly scale up to mammoth amounts of storage if you need it, as much as 16 terabytes for the $30/mo plan.

The other big benefit with MEGA is end-to-end encryption (meaning your data is encrypted in transit and is still secure if intercepted) in addition to at-rest encryption (encrypted once it hits the provider's servers). Most cloud storage providers offering "encryption" are only using the second type.

Here are other cloud storage providers offering E2EE:
https://www.privacytools.io/#cloud

[vanark]

I have been very happy with MEGA. You get a very generous 20 GB included with the free plan, and the paid tiers quickly scale up to mammoth amounts of storage if you need it, as much as 16 terabytes for the $30/mo plan.

The other big benefit with MEGA is end-to-end encryption (meaning your data is encrypted in transit and is still secure if intercepted) in addition to at-rest encryption (encrypted once it hits the provider's servers). Most cloud storage providers offering "encryption" are only using the second type.

Here are other cloud storage providers offering E2EE:
https://www.privacytools.io/#cloud

I have a free plan with 50 GB but some folks struggle with downloading, partly because I think Mega prompts you to install an app. A little slow sometimes to upload/download, but otherwise good.

[daspyknows]

I use Hightail and generally happy with it

I'm leaning that way at the moment.

Can you link to a folder or just a file?

I think so.  I typically zip a folder on upload as part of my workstream so I would need to confirm.

As far as Mega goes downloads are throttled unless you are a paying member for the links I have gotten.  Not a fan of that.

[RyanJ]

I use Google One at the moment. But only a 2TB account. I only use it to sync some folders that I use interchangeably between my desktop and laptop. IE - show edits and my website. If I make an edit on one, I can immediately swap to the other computer. I am generally happy with the speeds and being able to only share things with certain people. Drawback, I believe they need to have a google account to have access like that. I see that they have a 20TB option billed monthly at $99. Pretty steep.

I still feel that a NAS is the best solution, as cloud storage of massive amounts is still just out of my price range to do fully. Plus, I like to have physical backups because you never know when it will go kaput. I also backup my Google Drive directory to my NAS.

[rigpimp]

My NAS OS (TrueNAS) has auto cloud credentials and backup sync tasks uilt in for all of the big players.

I tested it out, and due to its simplicity, I hopped on the Google workspace wagon when it was about $30/month.  The challenge was that once I was up into the 30tb-40tb region the bill spiked to $200+/month.  I caught it pretty quick and just deleted the entire backup.

Ironically, I priced out Backblaze B2 and AWS S3 pricing just yesterday and keeping a copy in the cloud is simply cost prohibitive at this point.  I have my 112TB NAS,  64TB backup, and miscellaneous hard drive.  Unfortunately, most live here on site and I do need to get the Misc. externals to family over it the SF Bay.

Good luck to those that have very large data sets.

EDIT: If you are purely looking for a service to SHARE then Google, Hightail, PCloud, etc. seem to make the most sense.  This type of service is sort of a hybrid and is not primarily meant for long-term storage like Backblaze B2 or AWS Glacier.  For $50 per month you can sock away 10TB on B2 but I cannot say how easy it is to link/retrieve.  Keep in mind that STORAGE solutions will charge you a 2nd time for each time it is accessed and pulled back down.  Google Workspace was really simple to set up the backups but the permissions to allow access were not user-friendly whatsoever!  Google Drive or Google One are probably meant more for the consumer.

I use Plex for media management and can use that as a sharing option.  From the GUI I can simply click on an item and authorize access but I primarily use Dropbox Pro since more folks know Dropbox than Plex.

[vanark]

I use Hightail and generally happy with it

I'm leaning that way at the moment.

Can you link to a folder or just a file?

I think so.  I typically zip a folder on upload as part of my workstream so I would need to confirm.

Signed up for the 2GB free account and I can get a link to a "space" and then download all the files via a single click.
Zipping might work better, but was trying to eliminate that step in my workflow. Might be better than creating spaces for every individual upload.

[opsopcopolis]

I’ve always been a Dropbox guy, and continue to be relatively happy with their services.

[guitard]

I’ve always been a Dropbox guy, and continue to be relatively happy with their services.

I use Dropbox also; but not for archiving stuff.  It's a 2TB account that I mainly use for transferring stuff back and forth between other tapers/filmers. 

In order to archive something like 20TBs on Dropbox, you would need an Advanced or Enterprise account.  Those require 3+ users and cost $24/mth per user for Advanced; and even more for Enterprise.  If you find a good bunch of guys to team up with; that could work out nicely.  But when you start thinking long term ... I don't know.  Most of us are 50s or older.  So you have to keep that bunch of (old) guys together; not to mention, hope Dropbox doesn't go away at some point or make drastic changes to its service or prices.

That's why I have added a NAS to my storage plan.  My 20TBs of stuff is right there at my fingertips; and I don't have to mess with a pile of external drives to maintain it.

[Scooter123]

+1 on Hightail

I just put everything in a single folder, zip it, and upload the zip file.  $16 a month or something like that and no limit to storage.  Easy to share the link. 

[RyanJ]

EDIT: If you are purely looking for a service to SHARE then Google, Hightail, PCloud, etc. seem to make the most sense.  This type of service is sort of a hybrid and is not primarily meant for long-term storage like Backblaze B2 or AWS Glacier.  For $50 per month you can sock away 10TB on B2 but I cannot say how easy it is to link/retrieve.  Keep in mind that STORAGE solutions will charge you a 2nd time for each time it is accessed and pulled back down.

This. I have heard people who have lost their data and go to retrieve it and it's close to $1k to pull it back down.

[guitard]

EDIT: If you are purely looking for a service to SHARE then Google, Hightail, PCloud, etc. seem to make the most sense.  This type of service is sort of a hybrid and is not primarily meant for long-term storage like Backblaze B2 or AWS Glacier.  For $50 per month you can sock away 10TB on B2 but I cannot say how easy it is to link/retrieve.  Keep in mind that STORAGE solutions will charge you a 2nd time for each time it is accessed and pulled back down.

This. I have heard people who have lost their data and go to retrieve it and it's close to $1k to pull it back down.

Yikes!!

[morst]

Cloud storage options - I am embarking on a project to organize my files. They currently reside on many external/bare drives, duplicate copies, etc., but I never know where a particular show is. Rather than have this stuff on external drives, it makes sense for me to organize them to the cloud

Devil's advocate here. JBOD user. (Just a Bunch Of Discs)


I suggest getting an indexing program so you can keep an database of all your files available, even when the drives are in a drawer, a safety deposit box, or your folks's attic!?


I used to use mac Disktracker, but it's no longer supported, so I switched to and paid for NeoFinder and am very very happy with it, and with the support and updates from the creator.
For less than 10 drives, it's FREE.
https://www.cdfinder.de
I thought CDFinder offered a PC version but I can't seem to find it at this groggy hour... Sorry PC and linux folx

[vanark]

It is hard to send a link to shows from a JBOD arrangement. One of the advantages of cloud storage and certainly one of my requirements.

[rigpimp]

It is hard to send a link to shows from a JBOD arrangement. One of the advantages of cloud storage and certainly one of my requirements.

https://cathy.en.lo4d.com/windows

Cathy is an awesome file organizer.

My NAS is a JBOD but I can send anyone a link from within Plex.  I can also share my entire library via an email address and a free Plex account.

[aaronji]

The problem with a NAS solution, in my opinion, is that it is local. Don't get me wrong: I have, and love, a NAS and use it to directly serve music to my playback system as well as getting a little redundancy in case a drive dies. If the house burns down, or floods, or whatever, though, I will lose my main drives AND my NAS. For me, that is the reason for a cloud backup. It can get expensive, so I guess it depends a little on what you want to achieve. Backup? Distribution? Both? And how many TB are we talking about?

[guitard]

The problem with a NAS solution, in my opinion, is that it is local. Don't get me wrong: I have, and love, a NAS and use it to directly serve music to my playback system as well as getting a little redundancy in case a drive dies. If the house burns down, or floods, or whatever, though, I will lose my main drives AND my NAS. For me, that is the reason for a cloud backup. It can get expensive, so I guess it depends a little on what you want to achieve. Backup? Distribution? Both? And how many TB are we talking about?

I know there are cloud backup solutions for the NAS; although I haven't really looked into them very closely.  My initial impression is that they are somewhat expensive because typically they charge monthly by the GB.  It's just a half of a penny per GB ($0.005) per month for storage and $0.01 per GB for download, but that really adds up.

I am still relatively new to the NAS thing.  I haven't looked into closely, and the initial cost will be big; but there is also the option of having a second NAS setup outside your house that's networked with your first NAS.  Possibly find another taper with a NAS willing to do this with you and you become each other's backup.

[aaronji]

^ My IDrive account is about $75 a year for 10 TB. That is more than enough for me (for now) and cheaper than a second NAS. I backup selected portions of my main drives, NAS, and laptop. I have found that I am too lazy to manage a non-local option that requires any effort on my part. The cloud option is completely painless. It helps that I do almost no video and don't take tons of photos...

[morst]

It is hard to send a link to shows from a JBOD arrangement. One of the advantages of cloud storage and certainly one of my requirements.

ok well yeah, if you keep them off line like i do then it's not possible at all.
I have a buddy who swears by his Plex system...

[vanark]

Yep, I'm not running any servers any longer. I like turning on my laptop when I need to do something. I've run servers in the past, no issues with the technology, I just don't want to spend time setting them up and keeping them up. JBOD is what I use now for storage, but not going to invest in indexing them all when I can just upload to the cloud and get the sharing functionality at the same time I am organizing them.

[guitard]

Yep, I'm not running any servers any longer. I like turning on my laptop when I need to do something. I've run servers in the past, no issues with the technology, I just don't want to spend time setting them up and keeping them up.

I've only been running my Synology NAS for a few months, so maybe it's just too soon to say.  But setting up that NAS was so simple, I was dumbfounded when I realized I was finished and everything was running smoothly (and surprisingly, I did it with no help from my tech-savvy youngest son).  From unboxing, installing the four drives, to having it up and running (which included following along with a 34 min tutorial on Youtube) was around an hour.  I shoot 4K video and tape audio, so I need a lot of storage capacity.  So far, I have 18TBs stored on my NAS.  As I said, maybe it's too soon to claim success.  But it has run seamlessly in the background without even the slightest hickup, so maybe it's been a while since you did this and they are easier to set up and maintain now?

[voltronic]

So far, I have 18TBs stored on my NAS.  As I said, maybe it's too soon to claim success.  But it has run seamlessly in the background without even the slightest hickup, so maybe it's been a while since you did this and they are easier to set up and maintain now?

Careful... this is how you anger the data backup gods. 

Just chiming in to say that running NAS is really cool, but be sure to have separate backups for it that are not part of the same array. A NAS array can be a single point of failure with a power surge, or more recently, malware.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/synology-warns-of-malware-infecting-nas-devices-with-ransomware/

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/qnap-patches-zero-day-used-in-new-deadbolt-ransomware-attacks/

[morst]

Careful... this is how you anger the data backup gods. 

Just chiming in to say that running NAS is really cool, but be sure to have separate backups for it that are not part of the same array. A NAS array can be a single point of failure with a power surge, or more recently, malware.

YES, definitely treat NAS or other RAID array as a single "drive" when planning your backup strategy.

Here's what the 3-2-1 backup rule involves: 3: Create one primary backup and two copies of your data. 2: Save your backups to two different types of media. 1: Keep at least one backup file offsite.

[tedyun]

I found a deal for a site called PrismDrive through StackSocial. It is a one time payment of $89 for lifetime storage of 10 TB. After I signed up, there was a "Wait! There's more!" type of pop up that offered an additional 10 TB for $49, so lifetime 20 TB for a one time payment of $148.

Not bad.

It's pretty no frills as you would imagine. You can basically drag and drop your files from your desktop to the browser, then it will upload the files or folder. There is no slick syncing between a local folder and a cloud folder that updates once a file is changed across your devices, a la Dropbox, Google Drive or MegaSync, etc.

The other downside is that uploading is slow. The transfer is fine, ie., it runs at the speed of your broadband, but then there is a long pause after the transfer is 100%. It doesn't matter if the file is less than a KB or over 4 GB in size. You have to wait after the transfer before it goes to the next one on the queue. It seems like it is registering the file into the system or something, and this process can take maybe 3-5 minutes before it moves to the next file in the queue. You can set multiple uploads through different browsers, different windows or different machines, so that speeds up the process a bit.

Moreover, they say that you can upload files that are 10 GB, but in practice, the larger the file, the greater chance I get of a failure in transfer, then I have to try again. The sweet spot seems to be about 4 GB in size.

I mainly got this for a backup for my photos. Right now, I have a double backups, one that is live on my HDD, and another that is in cold storage. But I know that HDDs are not fool proof, so I wanted the cloud storage. But because I have 1,000's of photos, uploading one by one to PrismDrive just wasn't feasible. What I do is make a segmented zip file, with each segment around 4 GB in size, which is manageable.

For recordings, it could probably work. You can upload the raw WAV file and the processed FLACs one by one, especially if you're diligent about uploading after each show.

Anyway, it seems like PrismDrive has these sales occasionally, so if you're interested in a cost effective, no frills solution, check it out!

Ted

[mountainhop]

how long has that company been around?

[tedyun]

Not sure. I think maybe a couple of years. I get where you're going with this. If they ever go out of business, I figure, it's only $150, and if it works out, great. I still have my local backups if it doesn't work out.

[Scooter123]

Ted

There have been a ton of complaints against the company for slow upload speeds, e.g., a file takes forever to upload/download.  What is your experience? 

Hightail is what I use and typical show which I upload consists of one raw file, one modified file, and the split files with an Info file.  That takes about 45 minutes for a typical 90 minute show to upload. 

[tedyun]

Hi Scooter

Yeah, the uploading time was the thing that was an immediate problem. The transfer proceeds at normal rates (my home broadband has much slower upload speed than download), but after a file uploads, there is a pause when something behind the scenes is happening. It typically takes about 3-5 min before the upload is complete, and it is independent of file size, ie, a 1 KB text file will upload in seconds, but take 3-5 min to register. 4 GB takes several minutes on my broadband (15 min maybe?) then takes 3-5 min to register.

As such, with my intended use as a backup for photos, uploading every single photo was not feasible (I shoot around 3000 photos every year).

What I did to solve this is to archive each month of photos, and segment the archive into 4 GB segments.

The other thing is that I take advantage of my work's upload speed, so I do my uploads when I am at work. Each 4 GB takes 1-5 min, so I just drag and drop 20 (ie., 80 GB) files at a time while I'm working, and it will upload them over an hour or two. The process has been getting better. They seemed to have updated the process, and the upload will proceed to the next item on the queue before the current file is finished its "registration" time.

My other problem with the service is that the larger the file, the more chance there is a failure in the upload, and I will have to repeat it. The 4 GB chunks seem to be the most compatible, even though they advertise that you can upload 10 GB.

Anyway, for music archiving, I think it would be better. My typical unprocessed 24/96 WAVs are around 1 - 3 GB, and processed 16/44 FLACs are around 600-800 MB. So what I would do is zip up the processed files (similar to what people do with the WeTransfer shows), make checksums of all the files I'm uploading, and it shouldn't take more than an hour or so.

PrismDrive is not perfect, but it is cheap! You get what you pay for, I guess. For now, I'm making it work for me.

Best,
Ted