Topic: Church Audio vs SP-PASM-2(which one for low volume sound recording)

[yst]

Hi:

I want to record some very quiet ,soft spoken people teachings,that I probably always sitting the farthest way from the speakers,therefore think a preamp will help me ,so that I need not raise the gain in R-140 to 45.5(rockbox)when recording and all the way up the volume when hearing.That also add noise because of this.

I cannot decide which preamp to get ,Church Audio or SP-PASM-2
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SP-PASM-2&convert_from=usa&convert_to=usa

Actually which preamp is quieter ,and can give me good volume recording?

SP-PASM-2 have a gain control up to 50dB gain for recording extremely quiet sounds (nature sounds, distant talking, soft spoken people, etc),in compare to Church Audio only up to 30dB(I am not 100% sure)

But I find that Sp preamp have only three fixed selection of gain,if one is not good ,then drastically go to the other may have problems,(I learn from the gays in this tt forum )
Does the Church Audio would be more flexible.Does Church Audio preamp come with a sensitive mic.I cannot find the website,it said under construction.

Where to find Church Audio Preamp specificaton,especially signal to noise ratio,distortion level and their mic sensitivity level?I need this info to compare the two products,thanks.

I mostly use it to record quiet voice,NOT loud concert or sound.
Therefore regarding my special need,not know which one to get,my budget can only afford this price .

Thanks in advance

[Church-Audio]

Hi:

I want to record some very quiet ,soft spoken people teachings,that I probably always sitting the farthest way from the speakers,therefore think a preamp will help me ,so that I need not raise the gain in R-140 to 45.5(rockbox)when recording and all the way up the volume when hearing.That also add noise because of this.

I cannot decide which preamp to get ,Church Audio or SP-PASM-2
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SP-PASM-2&convert_from=usa&convert_to=usa

Actually which preamp is quieter ,and can give me good volume recording?

SP-PASM-2 have a gain control up to 50dB gain for recording extremely quiet sounds (nature sounds, distant talking, soft spoken people, etc),in compare to Church Audio only up to 30dB(I am not 100% sure)

But I find that Sp preamp have only three fixed selection of gain,if one is not good ,then drastically go to the other may have problems,(I learn from the gays in this tt forum )
Does the Church Audio would be more flexible.Does Church Audio preamp come with a sensitive mic.I cannot find the website,it said under construction.

Where to find Church Audio Preamp specificaton,especially signal to noise ratio,distortion level and their mic sensitivity level?I need this info to compare the two products,thanks.

I mostly use it to record quiet voice,NOT loud concert or sound.
Therefore regarding my special need,not know which one to get,my budget can only afford this price .

Thanks in advance

If you want to use a preamp for voice recording your better off with the SP preamp, my preamp only has 30 db of gain you need around 40 to 50 db for quiet voice conversations. My preamp the st-20b has a self noise of -120db with no input connected distortion is 1% at a -5 db input. Mic sens depends on the model, but I have to be honest and say the SP preamp for low level voice type recording is very good. They make great products.

Also keep in mind that a good minidisc recorder with a sensitive mic, will work very well for voice recording too. I know alot of you hate md but it is good for some things and this is one of them.

Chris Church
Church Audio

[yst]

Hi:

Thanks you for your reply,you are honest and nice.

Would you think that SP-PASM-2 or a Rh1 hi-md recorder better?(quieter and reliably get good volume)?I hope you could give me advice from your expert experience.

( :'(Sound pro is good ,but the overseas shipping charge is surprisingly very high ,though!)

Regards
ting

[Church-Audio]

Hi:

Thanks you for your reply,you are honest and nice.

Would you think that SP-PASM-2 or a Rh1 hi-md recorder better?(quieter and reliably get good volume)?I hope you could give me advice from your expert experience.

( :'(Sound pro is good ,but the overseas shipping charge is surprisingly very high ,though!)

Regards
ting

I cant say what of the two options would be "better" but I can say a good Hi MD recorder like the SONY MZ-M10 is a good value and a great recorder. I find that most of the memory card based recorders have a bad / noisy preamp section, that is why I do not recommend the M-AUDIO micro tracker IMO its too noisy for this application. It is great for concert recording when you have a loud source, because you don't need 50 db of gain. But for quiet sources its way to noisy. I also feel the same about the edirol except the R-09 but I am not sure about its max gain settings. Maybe one of the other users that has one can step in and comment.


The SP preamp is a good option, if you want to go line in on a MD or other recording device. It is a bigger package then an MD alone, so you might not want to carry around a separate preamp. I should warn you mic selection is very important, if you want noise free performance out of anything for recording with 50 db of gain. I recommend an omni mic like a Sennheiser MKE-2 because it has very low self noise and is perfect for someone to wear, or to simply place on a tabletop mic stand and record a room full of people or a single person * a wind screen * is a must.

Let me know how you make out with this.

Chris Church
I do not recommend any of the Sony mics they simply have way to much self noise to be of any value for quiet recordings.

[yst]

Hi:

Thanks you for your reply
I find a link that compare micro track with Hi-md.
Thanks(I did considered micro track! But now I think Hi-md is more quiet!)
http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/76211

I have another preamp found:mm stereo preamp
http://store.microphonemadness.com/mmsterpreamh.html

It said have +40 gains but do not have spec on s/n ratio,and not mention have knob to control gain or not,difficult to compare,but the price is very cheaper than soundpro ,therefore if it is good I can spend more money to buy the MM-HLSO mic.I am not sure is it better than soundpro+average mic .(than mm preamp+more than average mic)That my budget can only have these two combination!
http://store.yahoo.com/microphonemadness-store/mmhigomlapse.html
The mic is not MKE2(the price I cannot afford actually),but seems have good spec and low self noise and good price.

It has spec:
Signal to noise ratio: 65 db
Open Circuit Sensitivity: 10 mv/pa +/- 2.5db
vs.
SP-PASM-2
Signal To Noise Ratio: >62 dB, 1 kHz at 1 Pa
Open Circuit Sensitivity: -35 dB (5.6 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa

Not know how to compare the sensitivity,and which one better?

Anyone have experience with them ,please let me know,thanks

[Church-Audio]

Hi:

Thanks you for your reply
I find a link that compare micro track with Hi-md.
Thanks(I did considered micro track! But now I think Hi-md is more quiet!)
http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/76211

I have another preamp found:mm stereo preamp
http://store.microphonemadness.com/mmsterpreamh.html

It said have +40 gains but do not have spec on s/n ratio,and not mention have knob to control gain or not,difficult to compare,but the price is very cheaper than soundpro ,therefore if it is good I can spend more money to buy the MM-HLSO mic.I am not sure is it better than soundpro+average mic .(than mm preamp+more than average mic)That my budget can only have these two combination!
http://store.yahoo.com/microphonemadness-store/mmhigomlapse.html
The mic is not MKE2(the price I cannot afford actually),but seems have good spec and low self noise and good price.

It has spec:
Signal to noise ratio: 65 db
Open Circuit Sensitivity: 10 mv/pa +/- 2.5db
vs.
SP-PASM-2
Signal To Noise Ratio: >62 dB, 1 kHz at 1 Pa
Open Circuit Sensitivity: -35 dB (5.6 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa

Not know how to compare the sensitivity,and which one better?

Anyone have experience with them ,please let me know,thanks

If I had to choose between MM and SP it would be SP all the way Chris is  nice guy and if there is a problem Sound Professionals customer service is very good, well worth the extra money you pay for the product IMO over MM.

Chris Church

[hyperplane]

If I had to choose between MM and SP it would be SP all the way Chris is  nice guy and if there is a problem Sound Professionals customer service is very good, well worth the extra money you pay for the product IMO over MM.

Chris Church

I agree with that statement completely... Chris/Sound Professionals are great, and if you have a problem and contact them about it, they will make it right.

At one point, I spoke with Chris about their nice-looking preamp, and he said they had hired an audio engineer professor at a well-known school come up with the circuit for their preamp. He did tell me that it was a very "clean" preamp, and I take him at his word; he's never tried to sell me products that I don't need or anything like that.

As an aside note, I've heard from several people outside of the U.S. that Sound Professionals shipping cost is too much. I have to wonder why this is... maybe because Sound Professionals uses UPS (which has VERY expensive overseas shipping)   I wonder if Chris at SP knows how many non-U.S. residents are reluctant to order because of the shipping cost (which is compounded by the import duty/customs taxes for non-U.S. countries).


Lastly, yst - do you realize the microphone you liked to is mono? Just want to make sure you know what you're buying.

[yst]

Thanks for your reply.

Yes,I know it mono,but mainly I use to record voice and teachings,rarely record some ceremony (have drums and sticks,etc,but very rarely).Only I saw the item on sale,and the spec not bad(seems to be less noise).But really I have no knowledge of mic,and not know what I am doing,therefore  people comment can help my mind more clear.
But if I buy it from soundpro,I would have no extra money to buy the mic,and end in using the combo mic.

I compare another mic from sp:MT830-SP
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=MT830-SP&type=store&template=specifications
It is mono (can add$90 for stereo)and spec as:
Signal To Noise Ratio                     70dB
Open Circuit Sensitivity    -34dB

Does you know how to compare -34 db to MM-HLSO mic Open circuit Sensitivity: 10 mv/pa +/- 2.5db
Which one is more sensitive?Confused! ???But I find the s/n ratio is better in this mic.

Edit:I translate as thishttp://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-transferfactor.htm
10mv/pa=-40 db
If it is right calculation,then MT830-SP will have more quiet and less noise than MM-HLSO .
But I am not sure ,as it has +/- 2.5db at the end of spec. ???what it means?I translate it means at best it has -37.5 db sensitivity,but not sure.
And do I really need to add $90 for a stereo mic, ,but if it give more good quality,it will worth .

Sound pro have nice service,I emailed him 7 times,he replied me 7 times with good advice.They said other shipping method is not secure!



Regards
Ting

[yst]

Hello Church-Audio :
 
Having not decided on which one to get, but I have some doubt regarding preamp,can you give me advice.

If I record quiet lecture using the soundpro preamp,MT-830mic(sensitivity of -34dB),then which gain should be appropriate:29dB or 50dB? I fear that using with this mic in line in of Iriver -140 will result in clipping or distortion in 29dB or 50dB?Would this happen,then the preamp will be not useful if it will clip even in 29dB.Do you think the two option(29dB and 50dB)enough to control gain ,does I need to buy attenuator in case it will clip.

That I have no experience with preamp,therefore I think asking you is the best and secure.Might be I was too panic and it wil do the job good,then I do not need to return it to soundpro if now working(return it mean more money for shipping).

Or do you suggest I buy -40dB and more sensitive mic to be more safer than the one (-34dB)I choosed?Or buying attenuator?

Now the problem became fear of clipping rather than too low volume!(vs no preamp)

Thanks you

[Church-Audio]

Hello Church-Audio :
 
Having not decided on which one to get, but I have some doubt regarding preamp,can you give me advice.

If I record quiet lecture using the soundpro preamp,MT-830mic(sensitivity of -34dB),then which gain should be appropriate:29dB or 50dB? I fear that using with this mic in line in of Iriver -140 will result in clipping or distortion in 29dB or 50dB?Would this happen,then the preamp will be not useful if it will clip even in 29dB.Do you think the two option(29dB and 50dB)enough to control gain ,does I need to buy attenuator in case it will clip.

That I have no experience with preamp,therefore I think asking you is the best and secure.Might be I was too panic and it wil do the job good,then I do not need to return it to soundpro if now working(return it mean more money for shipping).

Or do you suggest I buy -40dB and more sensitive mic to be more safer than the one (-34dB)I choosed?Or buying attenuator?

Now the problem became fear of clipping rather than too low volume!(vs no preamp)

Thanks you

To be very honest this is not a very easy question to answer. I would go with a preamp that has at least 40db of gain and good headroom The SP preamp should be fine however, when your using 40-50db of gain its always a fine line between distortion and good audio. It sounds like your using the wrong recorder for the application. I would simply buy a HIMD recorder with a mic input and be done with all this external nonsense. For your application it seems MD would be the way to go. You will get lots of gain and a decent noise floor with a good HIMD recorder for recording speech. this type of recorder is not my first pick for loud concert recording but for speech its hard to beat MD for its simplicity and lack of the need for external preamps for speech.


Chris Church

[poorlyconditioned]

Hello Church-Audio :
 
Having not decided on which one to get, but I have some doubt regarding preamp,can you give me advice.

If I record quiet lecture using the soundpro preamp,MT-830mic(sensitivity of -34dB),then which gain should be appropriate:29dB or 50dB? I fear that using with this mic in line in of Iriver -140 will result in clipping or distortion in 29dB or 50dB?Would this happen,then the preamp will be not useful if it will clip even in 29dB.Do you think the two option(29dB and 50dB)enough to control gain ,does I need to buy attenuator in case it will clip.

That I have no experience with preamp,therefore I think asking you is the best and secure.Might be I was too panic and it wil do the job good,then I do not need to return it to soundpro if now working(return it mean more money for shipping).

Or do you suggest I buy -40dB and more sensitive mic to be more safer than the one (-34dB)I choosed?Or buying attenuator?

Now the problem became fear of clipping rather than too low volume!(vs no preamp)

Thanks you

To be very honest this is not a very easy question to answer. I would go with a preamp that has at least 40db of gain and good headroom The SP preamp should be fine however, when your using 40-50db of gain its always a fine line between distortion and good audio. It sounds like your using the wrong recorder for the application. I would simply buy a HIMD recorder with a mic input and be done with all this external nonsense. For your application it seems MD would be the way to go. You will get lots of gain and a decent noise floor with a good HIMD recorder for recording speech. this type of recorder is not my first pick for loud concert recording but for speech its hard to beat MD for its simplicity and lack of the need for external preamps for speech.


Chris Church

Excellent advice, Chris.  Minidisc is really hard to beat, both for convenience and reasonable quality.  I often use a MD if I want an all-in-one unit to go with my stealth mics.  Get the cheapest Minidisc you can that has a mic input.  I think you can get the NH-700 for something like $150USD at minidisc-canada.com.  That is a great price!

  Richard

[Arni99]

i use the iriver H120`s internal mic for voice recording an get excellent results with AGC-speech-setting (september build of rockbox). recently i recorded a meeting 1h30min at 96kbps mp3...every 35min the iriver writes to the harddisk for about 30seconds what you will hear on the recording, but nevertheless it´s still of awesome quality.
i sold my mini disc recorder (mz-rh1) because i don´t have ANY need for it using the iriver H120.

arni

[olli]

I have a similar problem. What is the best way to (strealth) record lectures and soft ambiance with Edirol R-09?

Don't want to have all the trouble with preamps, cables etc, just want to plug in (a) a normal microphone or (b) a pen-microphon/stealth-microphone.

Any good idea/recommendation/advice?

Thanks,

Olli

[Church-Audio]

I have a similar problem. What is the best way to (strealth) record lectures and soft ambiance with Edirol R-09?

Don't want to have all the trouble with preamps, cables etc, just want to plug in (a) a normal microphone or (b) a pen-microphon/stealth-microphone.

Any good idea/recommendation/advice?

Thanks,

Olli

I have a very nice pen mic for $29.99 T.S member discount. It has great sound quality for voice pickup, and is very sensitive.

[olli]

Thanks for the info. Is it better/more sensitive than the inbuilt R-09 microphone?

Thanks,

Olli