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Author Topic: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.  (Read 20744 times)

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Offline muj

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« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 12:29:28 PM by dmonterisi »

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Re: Boooooooooooooooooom! look inside SFW
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2005, 12:23:45 PM »
Answering the call of remote recording engineers, the TASCAM HD-P2 Portable High-Definition Stereo Audio Recorder is the professional solution for challenging live and on-location applications. Co-developed with Frontier Design Group, it records at up to 192kHz/24-bit resolution to Compact Flash media, and its audio files are instantly available to DAWs through the built-in high-speed FireWire computer connection. Unlike consumer MP3 sketchpads, the professional HD-P2 incorporates high-end features like a SMPTE timecode input for synchronization to external devices while in record or playback. The user interface is designed for fast and intuitive use under stressful one-take-only situations, and its large, angled LCD is perfect for any application from over-the-shoulder location recording to concert recording and commercial use.

High-definition Recording, To Go
The HD-P2 records in stereo from 44.1kHz to 192kHz, at 16- or 24-bit, to affordable Compact Flash media. Not only is Compact Flash absolutely silent, so no transport noise will show up on your recording, but the recorded audio is written directly as Broadcast WAVE files for immediate use in digital audio workstations. The unit even includes a FireWire jack for the fastest possible transfer of files to your PC or Mac computer.

The professional design of the HD-P2 extends to convenient details that pro users will appreciate. The Retake button allows the user to delete the last recording and set up to re-record with a single button press. As audio is recorded, the file headers are continually re-saved to protect your recording against accidental data loss. Files can be named from the front panel interface or using a PS/2 keyboard, which can also be used to control transport and setup features.

On the input side, the unit has a pair of XLR mic inputs with phantom power and analog peak limiting to curb distortion during unpredictable live events. The input level control allows the user to change the level without taking their eyes off the action. The HD-P2 also features unbalanced RCA ins and outs as well as S/PDIF digital I/O. Monitoring is available through a headphone out - again, with its own ergonomic level control - using a built-in speaker. A built-in microphone is also provided for interviews and educational use.

Built-in Synchronization - Because Being On Time Shouldn't Have To Be An Option
TASCAM's HD-P2 comes standard with a full-featured timecode input - making it the most affordable recorder with built-in timecode ever made. Incoming LTC is connected to the locking XLR input for timestamping your Broascast WAVE files from a central clock. Not only does the recorder timestamp your recorded audio with sample accuracy, the HD-P2 chases incoming timecode during playback for review or loading into an editor. A video clock input allows frame edge resolve to a central blackburst source or use as a lock-and-release timecode slave. There's also a freewheel setting for use with unpredictable timecode sources.

For maximum compatibility with the post production world, the HD-P2 supports pull-up and pull-down sample rates, even at high-resolution settings. The video clock input accepts tri-level sync for high-definition television production.

On Location, It's More Welcome Than The Craft Service Table
The shoulder-slung design of the HD-P2 with its included locking strap makes it a natural choice for film production recording. The Compact Flash media is safely recessed and latched to prevent accidental ejection, and audio can be recorded locked to timecode and video reference for absolute lock. It runs for approximately 5.5 hours on readily-available AA alkaline batteries, and weighs less than two pounds with batteries installed. At the end of the day, recordings can be instantly transferred to an editor through the FireWire jack or a CF reader for use in a non-linear editor to sync dailies or to conform dialog during post.

Precise recording quality for capturing a live performance
The HD-P2Õs 192kHz/24-bit recording resolution is so precise, you can almost hear what brand of cork was used for the conductor's baton. Its Compact Flash transport doesn't make any noise, so you don't need to worry about machine noise on the recording. The high-quality mic preamps provide phantom power to handle sensitive condenser microphones, and the analog limiter protects the recording against sudden transient distortion. With the high capacity of today's Compact Flash media, you might even be able to enjoy the performance without constantly watching the time remaining meter.

You don't need a union card to figure it out
Although the HD-P2 was designed for demanding film shoots and live concerts, it's still simple and affordable enough for use in everyday classrooms, churches and home studios. School band and orchestra leaders can use it to record rehearsals for students, and then record concerts to sell for fundraising. House-of-worship leaders can record their services for duplication on CD, and its high-speed FireWire connection provides instant access to the recording, so that CDs can be authored and duplication can begin as the laity files out of the church.

With professional connectivity, built-in synchronization, high-resolution recording and Compact Flash convenience, the HD-P2 is the professional solution for serious recording in a reliable, portable package.
     

HD-P2 Recording features:

    *

      Stereo recording to Compact Flash media
    *

      44.1kHz to 192kHz recording resolution at 16- or 24-bit
    *

      Time-stamped Broadcast WAVE file format is easily imported into DAW software and spotted into projects with sample accuracy
    *

      Retake button allows user to re-do last recording with a single button press
    *

      Audio files continually re-saved to safeguard against data loss
    * Comprehensive system and transport control from the front panel or a PS/2 keyboard

HD-P2 I/O features:

    * XLR mic inputs with phantom power and analog peak limiter
    * Unbalanced stereo RCA I/O

    *

      S/PDIF digital I/O
    *

      Headphone output
    *

      Built-in mono microphone and speaker for desktop interview applications
    *

      Analog level controls for easy operation without the need to look at the unit
    *

      FireWire interface for fast data transfer to a computer

   

HD-P2 Synchronization features:

    *

      SMPTE/LTC timecode input on locking XLR balanced jack
    *

      Timestamps Broadcast WAVE recordings from SMPTE input
    *

      Chase locks to incoming SMPTE timecode
    *

      Video clock input resolves to house clock
    *

      Tri-level sync support for HDTV applications
    *

      Includes Frame Lock, Lock and Release and flexible Freewheel settings for unpredictable timecode sources
    *

      Pull-up and Pull-down sample rates included for video format compatibility

HD-P2 Convenience Features:

    *

      Familiar tape machine-style layout and function
    *

      Angled screen for table-top or shoulder strap use
    *

      Large, uncluttered LCD display
    *

      Shortcut keys and LED indicators for frequently-accessed functions
    *

      Recessed Compact Flash slot
    *

      Runs on (8) readily available AA batteries or DC power adapter
    *

      Approximately 5.5 hours of operating time on battery power
    *

      10.25”W x 7.75”D x 2.5”H

      < 2 lbs with batteries
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Re: Boooooooooooooooooom! look inside SFW
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2005, 12:25:39 PM »
Looks like a re-tooled DA-P1.  Nice!  I wonder about the $$$?  And I wonder if it retained the P1's pre-amps, or if they are newer and better (as in could it be used as a standalone)
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Offline dmonterisi

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2005, 12:29:08 PM »
Link to Tascam Site

i'm going to change the title of this thread, fyi.

definitely the p1 chasis...funny, the more things change, the more they stay the same...i wonder if this thing is gonna need 7.6V DC as well? ::)

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2005, 12:31:10 PM »
I guess that depends on whether they could recycle the old P1 power supply into this unit  :P
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Offline dmonterisi

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2005, 12:32:28 PM »


High-definition Recording, To Go
The HD-P2 records in stereo from 44.1kHz to 192kHz, at 16- or 24-bit, to affordable Compact Flash media. Not only is Compact Flash absolutely silent, so no transport noise will show up on your recording, but the recorded audio is written directly as Broadcast WAVE files for immediate use in digital audio workstations. The unit even includes a FireWire jack for the fastest possible transfer of files to your PC or Mac computer.




so this will only record to .bwf files?  is that a problem?

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2005, 12:33:12 PM »
Could be sweet! 
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Offline Brian

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2005, 12:36:56 PM »


High-definition Recording, To Go
The HD-P2 records in stereo from 44.1kHz to 192kHz, at 16- or 24-bit, to affordable Compact Flash media. Not only is Compact Flash absolutely silent, so no transport noise will show up on your recording, but the recorded audio is written directly as Broadcast WAVE files for immediate use in digital audio workstations. The unit even includes a FireWire jack for the fastest possible transfer of files to your PC or Mac computer.




so this will only record to .bwf files?  is that a problem?

nope.  .bwf files are just .wav files with time code within the data. you can use them just like you would with normal .wav files.

Offline gewwang

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2005, 12:45:42 PM »
Love the R1 ad in the middle of the page ;)

This thing will make the R1 look like a toy (except for stealthing).

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2005, 12:46:42 PM »


High-definition Recording, To Go
The HD-P2 records in stereo from 44.1kHz to 192kHz, at 16- or 24-bit, to affordable Compact Flash media. Not only is Compact Flash absolutely silent, so no transport noise will show up on your recording, but the recorded audio is written directly as Broadcast WAVE files for immediate use in digital audio workstations. The unit even includes a FireWire jack for the fastest possible transfer of files to your PC or Mac computer.




so this will only record to .bwf files?  is that a problem?

nope.  .bwf files are just .wav files with time code within the data. you can use them just like you would with normal .wav files.

do the typical audio programs (wavelab, etc) recognize .bwf files?  i believe audition does, but i don't know if wavelab does.

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2005, 12:58:12 PM »
Sweet! This is promising.

Gotta love AES.

Damn I wish I was there!

Edit:

Wonder if MicroDrives will work. Doesn't look like it from reading the release.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 01:03:58 PM by martin »
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Offline modmike

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2005, 01:00:41 PM »
Link to Tascam Site

i'm going to change the title of this thread, fyi.

definitely the p1 chasis...funny, the more things change, the more they stay the same...i wonder if this thing is gonna need 7.6V DC as well? ::)


Runs on 8 readily available AA batteries or DC power adapter = 9.6 volts
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 01:02:16 PM by modmike »

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2005, 01:05:15 PM »


High-definition Recording, To Go
The HD-P2 records in stereo from 44.1kHz to 192kHz, at 16- or 24-bit, to affordable Compact Flash media. Not only is Compact Flash absolutely silent, so no transport noise will show up on your recording, but the recorded audio is written directly as Broadcast WAVE files for immediate use in digital audio workstations. The unit even includes a FireWire jack for the fastest possible transfer of files to your PC or Mac computer.




so this will only record to .bwf files?  is that a problem?

nope.  .bwf files are just .wav files with time code within the data. you can use them just like you would with normal .wav files.

do the typical audio programs (wavelab, etc) recognize .bwf files?  i believe audition does, but i don't know if wavelab does.

most definitely!

.bwf files (or .bwav) have become a professional standard so most professional programs like wavelabe will handle the files.  I've worked with .bwf files in all kinds of programs including wavelab.


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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2005, 01:13:07 PM »
ugly?  fugly!

I think it looks super sweet, I really like how the screen is tilted for easy viewing. A tad clunky, I'll admit.

Thank god for easy powering, etc.

I imagine it will have a $1000-$1500 price tag though. Still very affordable.
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2005, 01:14:58 PM »
this thing looks very promising. i was just getting sold on the 671, now this.  :hmmm:
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2005, 01:20:32 PM »
this thing looks very promising. i was just getting sold on the 671, now this.  :hmmm:

no joke...though I'm thinking this Tascam is going to more $$$ than even a Oade ACM-mod 671


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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2005, 01:21:59 PM »
the nice thing about them basing this off the p1 is that it should limit production and design costs to some degree as they are just adapting the technology, rather than developing it from scratch lik sounddevices had to. 

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2005, 01:22:12 PM »
this thing looks very promising. i was just getting sold on the 671, now this.  :hmmm:

no joke...though I'm thinking this Tascam is going to more $$$ than even a Oade ACM-mod 671

And if your just going digi-in, its bascially the same unit. I guess it depends how much it will be.
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Offline scb

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2005, 01:37:35 PM »
am i the only one who wonders why this thing is so big?

the da-p1 had a tape transport, which needed space.   this thing seems like it could be a lot smaller, right?  i wonder how much empty space there is inside that box

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2005, 01:38:44 PM »
I may have to consider this if the firmware in the MicroTrack doesn't fix some of the issues. ;)
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2005, 01:38:59 PM »
i wonder how much empty space there is inside that box...

...for an Oade mod  ;D

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2005, 01:41:56 PM »
seriously though.  if the 722 can cram flash and a hard drive in a box that's smaller, why is the tascam so big when it's only flash?  the same question could be asked for he fr2 i guess. 

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2005, 01:42:13 PM »
Anyone see anything about how it handles the 2GB file size issue?

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2005, 01:43:21 PM »
seriously though.  if the 722 can cram flash and a hard drive in a box that's smaller, why is the tascam so big when it's only flash?  the same question could be asked for he fr2 i guess. 

I think it's because they are trying to limit costs by just working off the p1 shell.  they've got all the non-transport electronics probably mounted the same way they were in the p1 and all.  just makes it cheaper to not have to re-engineer everything, i would think.


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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2005, 01:57:57 PM »
MicroTracker who?   Marantz PMD671 what?

well..  we all knew that tascam would introduce some sort of CF/Microdrive recorder for ENG..  Looks like this unit will replace the DAP1 (which I have) for incomiming analog and (transparant) digital signals upped to 24bit..    Dont be surprised if Sony follows with a replacement as well for their D10 D8 etc...   

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2005, 02:14:38 PM »
seriously though.  if the 722 can cram flash and a hard drive in a box that's smaller, why is the tascam so big when it's only flash?  the same question could be asked for he fr2 i guess. 

I think it's because they are trying to limit costs by just working off the p1 shell.  they've got all the non-transport electronics probably mounted the same way they were in the p1 and all.  just makes it cheaper to not have to re-engineer everything, i would think.

We can hope this is their motive.  It would be great if it came in with a lower price than the 671 and Doug would work his magic mods on this box!
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2005, 02:30:20 PM »
Anyone know the release date and price?  ;D
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2005, 02:34:21 PM »
I'm curious if this unit could record 24 bit and send true 16 bit data via the S/PDIF out, or if it would dither down to 16 bit?  That would be sweet if it worked like the MMe in that respect.

This is probably a stupid question, but since it's got the RCA I/O's, could you record 4 channels like the UA-5 (matrix)?
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2005, 02:39:13 PM »
I'm curious if this unit could record 24 bit and send true 16 bit data via the S/PDIF out, or if it would dither down to 16 bit?  That would be sweet if it worked like the MMe in that respect.

This is probably a stupid question, but since it's got the RCA I/O's, could you record 4 channels like the UA-5 (matrix)?

if it works like the DA-P1, no


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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2005, 02:42:02 PM »
I'm curious if this unit could record 24 bit and send true 16 bit data via the S/PDIF out, or if it would dither down to 16 bit?  That would be sweet if it worked like the MMe in that respect.

This is probably a stupid question, but since it's got the RCA I/O's, could you record 4 channels like the UA-5 (matrix)?

if it works like the DA-P1, no

I take it that's a no to both items?
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2005, 02:42:56 PM »
i think he was referring to the 4 chennel mix question.

i don't think we can tell from the specs whether it can dither a 16bit output or not.

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2005, 02:45:15 PM »
hell yeah!
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2005, 02:48:23 PM »
If you look at the close up pick on the link that Muj put up, it says "MS" on settings.  Does the DAP1 have built in M/S capabilities?
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Offline Colin Liston

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2005, 02:49:06 PM »
I thought the P1 could make matrix recordings.  I've run XLR in and RCA in at the same time before, and I thought I was making a matrix.

 Wasn't I?
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Offline Taper Jeff

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TASCAM HD-P2 Portable High-Definition Stereo Audio Recorder
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2005, 03:24:57 PM »
I just talked to Frank @ AES.
He's VERY excited about this unit!
$1250 or so list price. I would guess street price will be even a little lower.
Supposed to ship in November. 8)
He's working on getting us some of the first units.

Futhur details to follow as they develop...

Jeff Betts
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>:D "If recording is outlawed, only outlaws will record" >:D

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2005, 03:37:19 PM »
Always nice to see a statement like this:

Quote
...the HD-P2 was designed for demanding film shoots and live concerts
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Offline John R

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2005, 04:03:21 PM »
the leftover shell will help keep production retooling costs down.  and the similarity to the p1 will make the transition easier for nongeeks like us.  radio, print reporters, etc should find it easy to use.  and, a little harder to lose in the field.
we all live downstream.

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2005, 04:26:02 PM »
looks GREAT
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2005, 05:33:27 PM »
Anyone know the release date and price?  ;D

Shipping starting tomorrow.  Street price should be around $250.
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Offline SClassical

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2005, 05:40:58 PM »
Found the specs in the UK website, did not find it in the US site.. (audio performance is not so impressive).

Specifications
General
Recording media  Compact Flash card (40x/80x), Micro Drive
File system  FAT32
Recording format  Broadcast Wave audio files (BWF)
Quantization  16/24 bit linear
Sampling frequencies  44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz
External clock  SPDIF, Video (NTSC or PAL), Word
Frame rates  23.976, 24, 25, 29.97 DF/NDF, 30 DF/NDF
Audio inputs and outputs
MIC input  2 x XLR-3-31 (1: GND, 2: HOT, 3:COLD)
  Input impedance  1.3 kOhm
  Input level  –60 dBu (Trim max) to –13.8 dBu (Trim min)
  PAD  20 dB
LINE input  2 x RCA
  Input impedance  10 kOhm
  Input level  –46.2 dBV (Trim max) to 0 dBV (Trim min)
LINE output  2 x RCA
  Output impedance  100 Ohm
  Nominal output level  –10 dBV
  Maximum output level  +6 dBV
DIGITAL input  RCA (coaxial)
  Input impedance  75 Ohm
  Audio format  IEC60958 (SPDIF)
  Quantization  24 bit
DIGITAL output  RCA (coaxial)
  Output impedance  75 Ohm
  Audio format  IEC60958 (SPDIF)
  Quantization  24 bit
PHONES  6.3-mm stereo phone jack
  Maximum output power  55 mW + 55 mW (at 32-Ohm load)
Built-in loudspeaker   
  Output power  500 mW
  Impedance  16 Ohm
Other inputs and outputs
TIMECODE INPUT  XLR-3-31 (1: GND, 2: HOT, 3:COLD)
  Input impedance  75 Ohm
VIDEO INPUT  BNC
  Input impedance  75 Ohm
KEYBOARD  PS/2
FIREWIRE  IEEE 1394 (6-pin)
  Format  IEEE1394 (Asynchronous)
  Baud Rate  400 Mbps
Audio performance
Frequency response  20 Hz to 20 kHz, ±1.0 dB (44.1/48 kHz)
20 kHz to 40 kHz, +0.5 dB/–3.0 dB (88.2/96 kHz)
Noise Level  < –55 dBu (MIC to LINE OUT)
Dynamic range  > 105 dB(A) (MIC to LINE OUT, 44.1 kHz, 22-kHz LPF)
Total harmonic distortion  < 0.01 % (1 kHz, MIC to LINE OUT, max level (22–22,000 Hz), Trim min, 22-kHz LPF)
Crosstalk  > 80 dB (1 kHz)
Delay  1.5 ms (44.1 kHz)
0.7 ms (192 kHz)
Phantom Power  +48 V, 10 mA
Power supply and other specifications
AC adapter input voltage  100 V AC, 50–60 Hz
120 V AC, 60 Hz
230 V AC, 50 Hz
240 V AC, 50 Hz
AC adapter output voltage  12 V DC (600 mA)
Batteries  8 x AA (SUM-3), Alkaline, NiMH, NiCd
Power consumption  6 W
Dimensions (W x H x D)  245 mm x 188 mm x 60 mm
Weight  1.2 kg (excluding batteries and AC adapter)
Supported operating systems  Windows XP, Macintosh OS X (10.3 or higher)
Mics: DPA3552 kit/DPA3521 kit/DPA SMK4081 kit/DPA SMK4060 kit/Schoeps 2X MK21, 2X MK22 and 2X MK4v and 2X Schoeps CCM2S
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Recorders: SD722/PCM-D50/MT2
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Offline Steve J

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2005, 05:48:18 PM »
Anyone see anything about how it handles the 2GB file size issue?

It was my understanding that .bwf did not have the 2GB file limit issue. I believe it's good up to 4GB.
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Offline nelsorp

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2005, 07:20:43 PM »
this is probably a stupid question, but could you point out specifically why the audio specs are not "impressive"

Offline pjdavep

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2005, 07:44:47 PM »
Found the specs in the UK website, did not find it in the US site.. (audio performance is not so impressive).


So you heard the unit?!?  :o  Wow, can you tell us why it sounds "not so impressive"!

Later,
  pjdavep
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Offline mmedley.

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2005, 08:05:36 PM »
Found the specs in the UK website, did not find it in the US site.. (audio performance is not so impressive).

Recording media  Compact Flash card (40x/80x), Micro Drive


Well, I guess that answers my question.  :)
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Offline gewwang

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2005, 08:36:43 PM »
Anyone know the release date and price?  ;D

Shipping starting tomorrow.  Street price should be around $250.

And bitching and whining starts yesterday :)

Offline d5

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2005, 08:45:00 PM »
ugly?  fugly!

I think it's beautiful

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Offline d5

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2005, 08:48:32 PM »
How was the stock preamp on the DA-P1 ? I assume that the HD-P2 will be similar.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 09:14:00 PM by d5 »
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Offline Daryan

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2005, 09:05:19 PM »
I bet you are correct, in that the pre will be very similar to stock p1 units, and I would summarize that performance as marginal at best.  It should be a prime candidate for modding however.

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Offline BayTaynt3d

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2005, 09:19:18 PM »
Anyone see anything about how it handles the 2GB file size issue?

It was my understanding that .bwf did not have the 2GB file limit issue. I believe it's good up to 4GB.

My understanding is that the 2 gig limit has nothing to do with the file format at all (be it wav, bwf, or whatever). That limit has to do with the FAT filesystem itself. FAT = 2 gig issue, NTFS = no issue. So, considering the spec sheet says FAT, they'll have to deal with the 2 gig limit one way or another (or not).
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Offline wbrisette

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2005, 08:18:13 AM »
My understanding is that the 2 gig limit has nothing to do with the file format at all (be it wav, bwf, or whatever). That limit has to do with the FAT filesystem itself. FAT = 2 gig issue, NTFS = no issue. So, considering the spec sheet says FAT, they'll have to deal with the 2 gig limit one way or another (or not).

This is from another board (Peak/Bias) where this question was asked... You can substitute WAV for AIFF since they both share the same RIFF heritage. The BWAV format is not limited to 2 GB, however files larger than 2 GB have very limited use since most applications can't handle them properly.

Wayne
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Most file formats use internal 'fields' to store information about the file. For example how long the file is, where the markers are located or where the regions begin or end. For some file formats these fields are 32 bits in length (meaning 32 binary digits) this equates to an absolute maximum value of 4GB. So the field can't store a value larger than 4GB, which means the file can be no longer than 4GB, you can't have a marker beyond 4GB or a region etc. For some formats this length is 31 bits (the 32nd bit is used to indicate a positive or negative number) which in turn equates to 2GB.

Changing the size of these fields to 64bits would allow them to store enormous numbers and hence have enormous files - however simply making the change 'unilaterally' would make it such that your 'new AIFF' file couldn't be read by an app supporting the 'old AIFF' standard. Worse if you made the change without identifying the 'new AIFF' differently (i.e. a new suffix or new filetype etc) applications wouldn't be able to tell old from new. What's needed is a new file format .
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Offline wboswell

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2005, 09:45:18 AM »
I'm going out on a limb here, but I would be shocked if Tascam would be so shortsighted as to not include an autosplit function like m-audio.  The two companies are on differest sides of the professional audio spectrum imo.  I also expect Tascam to deliver a little quicker than SD or m-audio also.  It very well may be buggy on its first gen firmware, but if you think about how they launched the dsd recorder, this thing should follow suit and come on the heels of the first ads.

This may be the most promising unit from a pricepoint yet...  If rumors are correct and the$1250 price holds, we're talking the same thing as a P1, which I had no problem using as a transport only.  Granted you've got to dump some cash on CF media, but considering the multiple thousands of dollars I spent on DAT media, a few CF cards are cheap and will be getting cheaper.

Offline Bravin Neff

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2005, 11:04:07 AM »
Wavelab absolutely recognizes broadcast wave files.  There seems to be this misunderstanding that .bwf are idiosyncratic or proprietary and .wav files are not.  In fact it is the other way around: .wav files are proprietary to Microsoft whereas broadcast wav files are an inter-company, inter-nationally recognized standard file format.  Obviously Microsoft is big enough and widespread enough to make it SEEM like .wav files are the standard (and every application obviously recognizes them), but it only seems that way. 

Broadcast wave files have the advantage of having timestamping built into the file, so you can reassemble multitrack recordings with nothing other than the files themselves, unlike .wav (or other) files that need edl's (edit decision lists) in addition to the files.



High-definition Recording, To Go
The HD-P2 records in stereo from 44.1kHz to 192kHz, at 16- or 24-bit, to affordable Compact Flash media. Not only is Compact Flash absolutely silent, so no transport noise will show up on your recording, but the recorded audio is written directly as Broadcast WAVE files for immediate use in digital audio workstations. The unit even includes a FireWire jack for the fastest possible transfer of files to your PC or Mac computer.




so this will only record to .bwf files?  is that a problem?

nope.  .bwf files are just .wav files with time code within the data. you can use them just like you would with normal .wav files.

do the typical audio programs (wavelab, etc) recognize .bwf files?  i believe audition does, but i don't know if wavelab does.

Offline wbrisette

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2005, 11:21:01 AM »
Wavelab absolutely recognizes broadcast wave files.  There seems to be this misunderstanding that .bwf are idiosyncratic or proprietary and .wav files are not.  In fact it is the other way around: .wav files are proprietary to Microsoft whereas broadcast wav files are an inter-company, inter-nationally recognized standard file format.  Obviously Microsoft is big enough and widespread enough to make it SEEM like .wav files are the standard (and every application obviously recognizes them), but it only seems that way. 

ALL these formats: WAV, BWAV (BWF*), and AIFF all share the same lineage. They all come from the RIFF standard. Broadcast wave is NOTHING more than a standard wav file that the EBU has tacked on a 254 byte broadcast audio extention chuck onto. This chuck contains the metadata. By the way, for more clarity timecode is only stamped at the beginning of a file, then everything is relative to that point. timecode is not inserted throughout the file.


* The .bwf extension is unique in that Zaxcom being the first to market with a hard drive recorder (DEVA II) that recorded in this format had to come up with a file extension. Howy at Zaxcom decided on .bwf and it stuck. More interesting is that they no longer use .bwf, but simply .wav since that is what they really are.

Wayne
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2005, 02:04:13 PM »
As a long time DA-P1 user, I can say that I am very exiced about this product!

I also think that the preamps on the P1 always got a bad rap. Yes, they brickwalled easily, however with the -20db pad and a pad engaged on the mics, I always thought that the P1's preamps were at least as good as any outboard preamp untill one got into the Sonosax, Aerco, Grace level of gear. It certainly sounded better to my ears than a MP2 or a beyer.

If the HD-P2 adds only modest changes to the pres, we may have a really good stand alone unit. Now, what to do witht he old P1?

-Noah
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Offline Flarnet

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2005, 02:59:47 PM »
Wow. The non-linear market sure has exploded in the last 2 years. We now have the entire price/quality spectrum covered and hence something for everyone.

Offline d5

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2005, 04:10:30 PM »
ugly?  fugly!

I think it looks super sweet, I really like how the screen is tilted for easy viewing. A tad clunky, I'll admit.

Thank god for easy powering, etc.

I imagine it will have a $1000-$1500 price tag though. Still very affordable.


$1299 according  to the video, availabe before the end of the year
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Offline d5

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2005, 04:14:00 PM »
i wonder how much empty space there is inside that box...

...for an Oade mod  ;D

It has dedicated hardware switches should make for an easier mod. Marantz's use of software switches in the 660 is the reason you lose the built in mic's and line input with the ACM mod.
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Offline phr

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2005, 08:02:42 AM »
This is a pretty big unit and the price isn't that much lower than an Edirol R4, which has four channels AND a hard drive.  The R4 only goes to 24/96 but does anyone really use 24/192?  Any thoughts on this unit vs the R4?

I think there's some serious gaps in the market for this stuff.  First of all they should use good preamps.  It looks like you need an SD machine or that.  Second, I don't see why these machines are so power hungry and huge.  They need a pre/a-d which doesn't need THAT much power (see Core Sound mic2496, Denecke ad20 etc) plus they have to munch the data a little to write to CF.  Third, none of these things mention FLAC support, which is just nuts considering that FLAC is license-free and CF memory is still very expensive.  (FLAC is less important for a HD recorder).

It seems to me that they could make a PMD660 sized unit with good preamps, 24/48 (I don't even care about 24/96), and a hard drive, all for about the PMD660 price level.  That's what I want to buy.  It's obvious they could do it since even a couple years ago they were able to sell the NJB3 for $200 or so, and all it needs is some decent preamps and slightly different packaging, plus lose the lithium ion packs and use AA's (or a camcorder pack like SD uses) which should make the cost LOWER.  If they stay with CF instead of an HD, then include FLAC, and maybe a USB host port for an eternal hard drive.

So, I think they have a ways to go with this stuff.

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2005, 08:47:12 AM »
I think there's some serious gaps in the market for this stuff. 
<snip>
So, I think they have a ways to go with this stuff.

Let's all remember that for most of these companies, this is new stuff. It's going to take a while for them to figure out what the marketplace will and won't accept. It's also worth reminding folks that the "tapers" marketshare is nothing. Most of these recorders are aimed at either the musicians or video folks who want to try their hand at recording. Ultimately the taper market wants everything, but doesn't want to spend money on it, which is understandable since that market is in it as a hobby and not for pay. That said, has the taper market ever had out of the box an all-in-one unit everybody was happy with? I can't remember one. The closest is probably the 722 and even then some people don't like the preamps in it. So, I think it's going to be very tough getting everybody to agree on what a good unit is, verses a crappy unit. There are features that some people would love to have, others that most couldn't care less about. That's just all part of the recording scene.

Wayne
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Offline phr

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2005, 06:28:19 PM »
I don't know to what extent the stuff is really new to anyone.  Even in solid-state recorders, for Marantz at least, the 660 is a follow-on to the 690, 690 II, 670, and maybe the 671.  You'd think they'd understand the issues pretty well by now.  I believe Tascam has also made some solid state recorders in the past.  In a more substantial sense, CF recorders are just DAT recorders with the VCR-like tape mechanism removed and replaced with computer media, and a little extra firmware to handle stuff like the file system, and DAT has been around for decades.  Tascam has made lots of portable DAT recorders before, and this new CF recorder in fact re-uses the chassis from one of those DAT's. SD is more in the Nagra class and the engineers must have worked on other such devices before. I realize not everyone is a concert taper but they must have been selling those DAT recorders to -somebody-.    It doesn't occur to me that musicians wouldn't want good preamps just like tapers want.  (I can understand ENG users being slightly less concerned, but they weren't using DAT much).  FLAC is simply a no-brainer, it baffles me that no CF recorders have it, if they bother supporting WAV. 

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2005, 08:36:14 PM »
could they really do that open source stuff thats free?
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2005, 09:52:33 PM »
Yes of course they could, it's just like Ogg Vorbis which is showing up in many playback units (iRiver etc).

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2005, 12:52:24 AM »
(I can understand ENG users being slightly less concerned, but they weren't using DAT much).  FLAC is simply a no-brainer, it baffles me that no CF recorders have it, if they bother supporting WAV. 

You obviously don't know the ENG market. They used DATs *(and still do)* until they couldn't find them anymore, a lot of these folks moved to MD recorders due to size and cost laster. But, to say they weren't using DATs is ridiculous.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2005, 06:06:56 AM »
the eng market don't use dat at all these days , since the cameras aloud the
 same quality of signal recording  , but the film industry continue running dats , usually with good pres ( hhb , fostex pd-4)
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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2005, 07:02:14 AM »
the eng market don't use dat at all these days , since the cameras aloud the
 same quality of signal recording  , but the film industry continue running dats , usually with good pres ( hhb , fostex pd-4)

Exactly. But the statement was that they weren't using DATs. That was false. They were at one time, just not now as you point out.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2005, 09:59:36 AM »
This is a pretty big unit and the price isn't that much lower than an Edirol R4, which has four channels AND a hard drive.  The R4 only goes to 24/96 but does anyone really use 24/192?  Any thoughts on this unit vs the R4?


I agree about the 4 channels but a hard drive is a liability not an advantage. Hard drive's fail...

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2005, 10:06:24 AM »
I agree about the 4 channels but a hard drive is a liability not an advantage. Hard drive's fail...

-e

even if you dont chose to tape to HD with the 722 and tape to CF, the beauty of the HD is that you can transfer the file from that CF to the internal HD....nice feature unless you are going to have $$$$ in compact flash available

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2005, 10:07:02 AM »
This is a pretty big unit and the price isn't that much lower than an Edirol R4, which has four channels AND a hard drive.  The R4 only goes to 24/96 but does anyone really use 24/192?  Any thoughts on this unit vs the R4?


I agree about the 4 channels but a hard drive is a liability not an advantage. Hard drive's fail...

-e

i agree.  within the next year or so when CF cards come down even further in price, HDD boxes will seem like a liability.

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Re: Tascam CF Recorder Announced.
« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2005, 10:16:01 AM »
I agree about the 4 channels but a hard drive is a liability not an advantage. Hard drive's fail...

Even with prices of CF cards coming down, I don't see HD recorders as a liability if designed properly. By that I mean one that is easy to swap out in the field. The lack of being able to do this with most of the current crop of HD recorders does present some issues, but I still think they have some advantages which are hard to overcome with CF cards, unless you have a ton of them. I currently have three 80 GB hard drives and one 40 GB hard drive for my Deva. This was extremely useful when I did the archiving of the main stage at Old Settler's this past year. Each day I was able to record a full day on a single drive, pull it out, pop in a new drive for the next day and go. I didn't have to worry about off-loading until later. Then it was a simple matter of popping in a new drive and mirroring the data.

Now, it is true that all drives fail, but if done correctly, HD recorders can read the SMART data and recoginze when a drive is having problems and prevent you from recording on it before you store something on it that will be hard to recover.

I think having both is a wonderful solution and one which seems to be getting more popular.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

 

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