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Author Topic: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T  (Read 5429 times)

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Offline hoyt

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Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« on: September 23, 2022, 06:40:59 AM »
I picked up the m2d2 at the end of 2021 and have run my two rigs side by side (4023 and 4028) since.  I generally ran 4028s (NOS) > v2 and 4023s (DINa) > m2d2 and almost always I preferred the 4028s, but I was never sure if it was the wide cards or the preamp that I liked.  If I flipped and ran 4028s > m2d2 vs 4023s > v2, I preferred the 4028s for that tape.  I taped DMB at Shoreline last week, which is hell for stands and decided to run just one set of mics.  Of course, I was forced to run the stand at shoulder height.  I split the XLR from my 4028s, providing phantom from the v2.  I was setup in section 103, row B, seat 15 - on the front aisle, so this is essentially a shoulder height stack tape.

I grabbed a few tracks where I thought the difference was most noticeable and renamed the tracks/ marked them as A vs B.  There's a text file in the Drive folder with the answer key.  Track by track they are named A and B, I did a coin flip to name each track.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UeSVKkxH8Qv8Y3GoBv1x3Q8O1men6EjU?usp=sharing

If you're interested in the entire set (yes, there are MP3s in here because people that I send it to after a show want to put it on their phones anyway):

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Kd5rxUjAiXEmHwMKiVA7fw841qHLTjE5?usp=sharing

The Drive link will probably be active for a few months, but at some point I'll remove the folder, so if you come across this much later than now, feel free to PM me and I can re-share it.  I'm interested in what other people think too. Enjoy!
dpa4028/4023/4011er > sx-m2d2/ sx-r4+

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2022, 09:25:02 AM »
Thanks for this.  Posting to mark thread for easy return later.. will give a listen when I have an opportunity, hopefully next week.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2022, 01:56:57 PM »
I think we ran one V3 vs SXM2D2 comparison when kindms bought his Sonosax SXM2D2. Otherwise, he has shifted completely to using the Sax. He feels the pre-amps are "better", I am of a similar mindset, however, SOMEthing in the 100 Hz and below seems more prone to pick up PA anomalies. I am interested in your comps, should check them out, will let you know my opinion.
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Offline jnorman

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Re: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2022, 01:47:06 AM »
The Sonosax was my first real preamp, and I love it, but frankly, I find the preamps in the SD units to be just as transparent and clean.  I have no problems going strain into my 702 or MixPre 6.

Offline mountainhop

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Re: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2022, 02:51:16 AM »
i gave "41" a spin by cutting it into a single wav with 1 min alternating segments so i could listen through carefully

A might be slightly more detailed. B definitely has a more natural fuller bottom end

the differences were slight and both sounded excellent

tough to pick out the differences and attribute it to either the V2 or 744T as ADCs definitely have flavors as well (i assume you used the sax's adc, as opposed to as just a pre into 744T as an ADC)

i feel like for our purposes those rigs could be interchangable and considering size/power considerations, its getting increasingly difficult to justify components

in regard to that, id like to hear the sax vs say, the d:vice which functionally is more similar for our field taping purposes (super compact, 2ch, integrated pre and class-compliant adc being the similarities). not that the sax isnt fantastic but if one only needs 30 dB of gain, is 70+dB of ultraclean gain even relevant?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 03:29:03 AM by mountainhop »

Offline hoyt

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Re: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2022, 02:12:01 PM »
tough to pick out the differences and attribute it to either the V2 or 744T as ADCs definitely have flavors as well (i assume you used the sax's adc, as opposed to as just a pre into 744T as an ADC)

Correct.  My understanding of the m2d2's output stage is that the ADC is unable to be bypassed.  If you run analog out, it still goes through the ADC, then through the DAC.

i feel like for our purposes those rigs could be interchangable and considering size/power considerations, its getting increasingly difficult to justify components

in regard to that, id like to hear the sax vs say, the d:vice which functionally is more similar for our field taping purposes (super compact, 2ch, integrated pre and class-compliant adc being the similarities). not that the sax isnt fantastic but if one only needs 30 dB of gain, is 70+dB of ultraclean gain even relevant?

Agreed.  It's getting harder and harder to tell the differences in gear.  m2d2 vs d:vice would be really interesting to hear.  I'm very happy with the m2d2, the size is perfect for most of my use cases.  I do love the v2 sound with my DPAs, but I'm ready to move to the r4+ and ditch an external preamp all together.
dpa4028/4023/4011er > sx-m2d2/ sx-r4+

Offline morst

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Re: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2022, 09:30:47 PM »
I split the XLR from my 4028s, providing phantom from the v2.


This was a passive "hard split?" as opposed to using a transformer or electronic stage?
Did you notice any "gain fighting" where the level on one recorder changes when you adjust the level on the other?
Did you even adjust levels? Or just pick a number and roll?


Sort of on the subject of splits, Dave Rat has been posting some interesting videos for a while, and a few of his most recent involve the effect of splits and in particular how transformers affect the sound. . .  there is a lot to say on this subject and Dave actually has some good conversations in the comments (which is really unusual on YT!)
part 1 - https://youtu.be/so_sXkH8QOk
https://toad.social/@morst spoutible.com/morst post.news/@acffhmorst

Offline hoyt

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Re: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2022, 12:42:59 PM »
This was a passive "hard split?" as opposed to using a transformer or electronic stage?
Did you notice any "gain fighting" where the level on one recorder changes when you adjust the level on the other?
Did you even adjust levels? Or just pick a number and roll?


Sort of on the subject of splits, Dave Rat has been posting some interesting videos for a while, and a few of his most recent involve the effect of splits and in particular how transformers affect the sound. . .  there is a lot to say on this subject and Dave actually has some good conversations in the comments (which is really unusual on YT!)
part 1 - https://youtu.be/so_sXkH8QOk

It was a passive split.

I didn't notice anything weird with the levels, but I probably barely touched them.  I've taped DMB too many times to count, and I was right on the PA, so I assume the levels were set easily. 

Interesting video, thanks for the link.  I have no doubt that adding something in-line like that affects the sound, but does it affect one split more than the other?  In other words, for the purpose of comparing two items, does it matter?
dpa4028/4023/4011er > sx-m2d2/ sx-r4+

Offline morst

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Re: Sonosax sx-m2d2 vs Grace Designs v2 > 744T
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2022, 05:21:18 PM »
It was a passive split.

I didn't notice anything weird with the levels, but I probably barely touched them.  I've taped DMB too many times to count, and I was right on the PA, so I assume the levels were set easily. 

Interesting video, thanks for the link.  I have no doubt that adding something in-line like that affects the sound, but does it affect one split more than the other?  In other words, for the purpose of comparing two items, does it matter?

well check out the video for part 2, Some of the gear combinations definitely affect frequency response on the SMAART analyzer, even when the transformer is on the OTHER side of the hard split. Can you hear a difference on something other than pink noise? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


https://youtu.be/8C4hzzFijm4
https://toad.social/@morst spoutible.com/morst post.news/@acffhmorst

 

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