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Author Topic: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d  (Read 781 times)

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Offline Keaneboots

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Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« on: February 08, 2024, 04:21:20 PM »
Hi,

I'm going to tape KEANE in London in two weeks, and I need some help with setting up my DR-2d. I heard I can record audio with two different mics using the dual recording mode, meaning it will record through the mic-in and line-in simultaneously, creating two different files. I am considering plugging my CA-11 cards into the mic-in socket and my AT831s into the line-in, powered by a battery box. Will this work? I just want to make sure I have two sources so I have a higher chance of getting a good recording. I also read that I should set the gain on the mic-in above 67 and line-in above 95 if I'm not mistaken.

All advice is more than welcome!

Regards,

Pieter

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2024, 06:35:43 PM »
Yes, DR2d allows you to record two external stereo inputs, for 4 channels total.  To do so, set the recorder to DUAL LINE mode.

You will need an external powering solution for the mics into the LINE IN.  Line in gain can only be adjusted in the menu prior to recording. Usable range of gain on LINE IN is only between 95-100. Do not go below 95, there is no benefit and only potential problems.  For those reasons, a preamp with adjustable gain is highly preferable to a battery box going LINE IN.  If you don't have a preamp with adjustable gain, plug your preferred mics into MIC IN.  If you do have one, use your preferred mics through it.


Plan A) Best strategy is using two preamps with adjustable gain, one for MIC IN, one for LINE IN.  If using two preamps with adjustable gain, set input gains to MIC IN (LOW SENSITIVITY) = 67 and LINE IN = 95.   That makes input sensitivity effectively equal for both inputs, and maximizes available headroom.  Turn plug in power (PIP) off on the recorder.

Plan B) If using only a single preamp, use it for the LINE IN pair (input gain set to 95).  Use MIC IN for the pair that does not have an external preamp and set gain as needed on the recorder.  Plug in power (PIP) is available for MIC IN on the recorder (menu switched).  You will also need to check that MIC IN sensitivity is set appropriately, most likely to LOW (choice of HIGH/LOW). If you have a battery box in addition to the preamp, uses that for MIC in instead of PIP power on the recorder. 

Plan C) If you have no preamp but two battery boxes, use them both and turn PIP off to MIC IN. Set MIC IN gain as needed on the recorder.  Keep in mind you cannot adjust LINE IN gain while recording, AND the available range of input gain is very limited.  Good luck. 

Plan D) If you have only one battery box, you'll need to use that for the line in pair.  Use PIP on the recorder to power the MIC IN pair and adjust gain as needed on the recorder.  Good luck.


You can switch the meter monitoring between MIC IN and LINE IN while recording, unless the HOLD switch is engaged.  To use the IR remote you'll need to first enable it in the menu. The IR remote remains operable with the HOLD switch engaged. 




musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Keaneboots

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2024, 05:48:04 AM »
Yes, DR2d allows you to record two external stereo inputs, for 4 channels total.  To do so, set the recorder to DUAL LINE mode.

You will need an external powering solution for the mics into the LINE IN.  Line in gain can only be adjusted in the menu prior to recording. Usable range of gain on LINE IN is only between 95-100. Do not go below 95, there is no benefit and only potential problems.  For those reasons, a preamp with adjustable gain is highly preferable to a battery box going LINE IN.  If you don't have a preamp with adjustable gain, plug your preferred mics into MIC IN.  If you do have one, use your preferred mics through it.


Plan A) Best strategy is using two preamps with adjustable gain, one for MIC IN, one for LINE IN.  If using two preamps with adjustable gain, set input gains to MIC IN (LOW SENSITIVITY) = 67 and LINE IN = 95.   That makes input sensitivity effectively equal for both inputs, and maximizes available headroom.  Turn plug in power (PIP) off on the recorder.

Plan B) If using only a single preamp, use it for the LINE IN pair (input gain set to 95).  Use MIC IN for the pair that does not have an external preamp and set gain as needed on the recorder.  Plug in power (PIP) is available for MIC IN on the recorder (menu switched).  You will also need to check that MIC IN sensitivity is set appropriately, most likely to LOW (choice of HIGH/LOW). If you have a battery box in addition to the preamp, uses that for MIC in instead of PIP power on the recorder. 

Plan C) If you have no preamp but two battery boxes, use them both and turn PIP off to MIC IN. Set MIC IN gain as needed on the recorder.  Keep in mind you cannot adjust LINE IN gain while recording, AND the available range of input gain is very limited.  Good luck. 

Plan D) If you have only one battery box, you'll need to use that for the line in pair.  Use PIP on the recorder to power the MIC IN pair and adjust gain as needed on the recorder.  Good luck.


You can switch the meter monitoring between MIC IN and LINE IN while recording, unless the HOLD switch is engaged.  To use the IR remote you'll need to first enable it in the menu. The IR remote remains operable with the HOLD switch engaged.

Wow, thank you so much!

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2024, 09:12:37 AM »
Welcome to TS!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2024, 07:17:57 PM »
The O2 also has Assisted Listening Devices, and you can use your LINE IN (without a preamp) from the ALD to the DR2D

Go to MENU > INPUT SETTINGS and set input to MIC IN.  That will enable the recorder to be switched to Dual Recording Mode.  Set gain at LOW, which will not engage the preampliers for the ALD. 

Press and hold the DUAL button and set the MODE to LINE, Level 100.  This will be your mikes. 

Use your battery box or preamp with microphones into LINE IN.  Plug the wireless source into MIC IN.  The wireless source should not be adjusted to full volume, start about half way. 

You can use the VU  meter for either source, by pressing the DUAL while recording, and toggle the levels for each source.    While you cannot monitor both feeds, only the MIC IN, you can at least toggle the VU Meters by hittiing DUAL during recording which will switch over to the LINE IN.

I would suggest playing around with these setting before going to O2. 
Regards,
Scooter123

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Offline loughney

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2024, 01:32:16 AM »
Yes, DR2d allows you to record two external stereo inputs, for 4 channels total.  To do so, set the recorder to DUAL LINE mode.

You will need an external powering solution for the mics into the LINE IN.  Line in gain can only be adjusted in the menu prior to recording. Usable range of gain on LINE IN is only between 95-100. Do not go below 95, there is no benefit and only potential problems.  For those reasons, a preamp with adjustable gain is highly preferable to a battery box going LINE IN.  If you don't have a preamp with adjustable gain, plug your preferred mics into MIC IN.  If you do have one, use your preferred mics through it.


Plan A) Best strategy is using two preamps with adjustable gain, one for MIC IN, one for LINE IN.  If using two preamps with adjustable gain, set input gains to MIC IN (LOW SENSITIVITY) = 67 and LINE IN = 95.   That makes input sensitivity effectively equal for both inputs, and maximizes available headroom.  Turn plug in power (PIP) off on the recorder.

Plan B) If using only a single preamp, use it for the LINE IN pair (input gain set to 95).  Use MIC IN for the pair that does not have an external preamp and set gain as needed on the recorder.  Plug in power (PIP) is available for MIC IN on the recorder (menu switched).  You will also need to check that MIC IN sensitivity is set appropriately, most likely to LOW (choice of HIGH/LOW). If you have a battery box in addition to the preamp, uses that for MIC in instead of PIP power on the recorder. 

Plan C) If you have no preamp but two battery boxes, use them both and turn PIP off to MIC IN. Set MIC IN gain as needed on the recorder.  Keep in mind you cannot adjust LINE IN gain while recording, AND the available range of input gain is very limited.  Good luck. 

Plan D) If you have only one battery box, you'll need to use that for the line in pair.  Use PIP on the recorder to power the MIC IN pair and adjust gain as needed on the recorder.  Good luck.


You can switch the meter monitoring between MIC IN and LINE IN while recording, unless the HOLD switch is engaged.  To use the IR remote you'll need to first enable it in the menu. The IR remote remains operable with the HOLD switch engaged.

I've done something like this and it is a bit complex, so you should try it out before the show. I blasted my stereo and recorded it to make sure everything is working well.

However, nowadays, I have used two different recorders, on occasion, which is simplier for me.  I have to Sony A10s, and I have used one with internal mics and one with exteral mics and just had both record.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2024, 10:24:54 AM »
Running two separate recording chains with two separate recorders is in some ways simpler, especially if you don't record two pairs of mics regularly.. as long as the intent is two separate recordings that won't be combined.  If recording using mics + SBD, + assisted listening, + IEM feed, or a 4 microphone stereo array its  compelling to record all four channels in full sync with a single recorder.  In other ways its more complicated because you need to manage two separate recorders instead of one.

Either way, definitely set it all up beforehand and make sure you are confident with everything working smoothly at home.


Scooter mentioned an important detail I forgot to mention, which is that the DR2d must be set to MIC IN (not LINE IN) in order to engage DUAL LINE mode.

We both mentioned monitoring, about which Scoot said- "You can use the VU  meter for either source, by pressing the DUAL while recording, and toggle the levels for each source.    While you cannot monitor both feeds, only the MIC IN, you can at least toggle the VU Meters by hittiing DUAL during recording which will switch over to the LINE IN."

^To clarify a bit further, since its somewhat confusing, you can switch visual metering on the display between MIC IN and LINE IN by pressing the DUAL button, as long as the hold switch is not engaged, however the audio output through the headphone/line-out jack will always remain the MIC IN source even when you are visually monitoring LINE IN on the display.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline mrfender

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2024, 12:39:16 PM »

I've done something like this and it is a bit complex, so you should try it out before the show. I blasted my stereo and recorded it to make sure everything is working well.

However, nowadays, I have used two different recorders, on occasion, which is simplier for me.  I have to Sony A10s, and I have used one with internal mics and one with exteral mics and just had both record.

Same here, I've tried many times to get everything set up right with the DR-2d and Murphy's Law takes over. Kudos to those that can make it work, for some reason, I just can't.  Like the A10, I can run two R-07s at the same time with the phone app and I'm happy.
DR2d, DR-05, DR-22wl, DR-40, DR-44wl, DR-608, PCM-M10, Roland R-07, PCM, PCM-A10
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2024, 05:24:06 PM »
I honestly hate the DR2d, but it is the only recorder that I can stealth and record two sources, for me, usually a wireless source and a microphone source, and both will be time aligned, and I don't have to go through the hassle to time align two files. 
Regards,
Scooter123

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2024, 05:45:49 PM »
Why is that? 

I love the DR2d.  Its reliable, and prior to its arrival I was running two Edirol R-09s and syncing in post.  It was a godsend to be able to record two unbalanced stereo pairs in perfect sync into a single pocket sized recorder, and not have to operate two recorders at the same time.  Operating it from the wireless remote was icing on the cake.  There's not been any other recorder before or since of the same size that can do that.  A shame really. 

A few times I ran two DR2ds simultaneously, to record 6 or 8 channels.  That was back to the PITA of operating two recorders thing again, so I gave it up.  Wish there was a followup recorder of the same size capable of that.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Help needed with setting up my DR-2d
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2024, 02:10:19 AM »
You know, I hate it because:  (1) No Back Lighting.  One may not adjust jack shit without firing up a cell phone to figure out the buttons and display.  (2)  The Dual Recording Function Was Not Made for Wireless.  It was designed for a second audience source, not a completely different source.  (3) Poor Battery Life.  This thing is nearly 20 years old, and even with new firmware, is only good for a couple of shows.  No big deal, that's $3.00 worth of batteries, but still is annoying.  (4) No monitoring Different Sources.  Yeah, I can toggle to check VUs to see if I stupidly have the the wireless set too high, but honestly I know how to set it after 10 years, and pretty much have that figured out.  About 1/3rd to 1/2 on an IEM or ALD pack. 

All that said, it is my go to recorder for audience-wireless recording because it can be hacked to do something it simply wasn't intended to do.  No time alignment necessary, and to that extent it is pure genius.  Nothing like it on the market today, and that's why I own about three of them. 
Regards,
Scooter123

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