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Author Topic: Help needed with taping strategy!  (Read 13871 times)

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Offline Pieteker

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Help needed with taping strategy!
« on: March 05, 2024, 03:46:52 AM »
Hi,

I'm recording Keane again in April at a sold-out show at Palladium, Cologne, Germany. I want to improve my positioning; the other day, I recorded them in London at a packed Shepherd's Bush Empire but felt like a sardine trapped in a small bowl. The recording had A LOT of crowd noise (chatting, screaming, singing), and I want to minimize this on my next attempt.

So, judging from the picture below of the Palladium, my best bet to get a decent recording is either standing behind the mixing panel behind the bars or going to the balcony on either side in line with one of the big PA speakers.



What should I do, seeing that all the experience is right here?

Pieter
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 03:50:27 AM by Keaneboots »

Offline stl_oni

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2024, 08:45:32 AM »
I hate recording at the Palladium. At the back (either in front or behind the mixing desk) you get lots of reverb plus people talking and rushing to the bar the whole time. I try to get on the balcony or up front on the floor in line with one of the speakers on the left or the right, not more than 15-25 rows back from the front. You can grab good recordings with omnis that way, even better with cards. Never used hypers from the back at the mixing desk,
Might work, but still lots of reverb as it is just a crappy sounding venue the more you get to the back. Good luck!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 09:05:02 AM by stl_oni »

Offline Pieteker

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2024, 08:58:26 AM »
Thank you!

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2024, 09:39:41 AM »
Oddball idea: make a stack tape. Walk up and face the speaker in the balcony from about 10-15 feet away. You will look odd facing the speaker, but that will be an optimal way to reduce crowd chatter and pick up direct sound from the speaker. Of course, if this band has lots of stereo effects and you know they mix in stereo, then my advice is wrong. One of my finest recordings I ever made in the 40 years of doing this was from about 6 feet from a Meyer UPA-1 in a balcony. We took over the front table and set the mics up almost as if we were close micing onstage!
Rock on!

edited for spelling
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 11:36:14 AM by rocksuitcase »
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Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2024, 09:51:49 AM »
Oddball idea: make a stack tape. Walk up and face the speaker in the balcony from about 10-15 feet away. You will look odd facing the speaker, but that will be an optimal way to reduce crowd chatter and pick up direct sound from the speaker. Of course, if this band has lots of stereo effects and you know they mix in stereo, then my advice is wrong. One of my finest recordings veer made in the 40 years of doing this was from about 6 feet from a Meyer UPA-1 in a balcony. We took over the front table and set the mics up almost as if we were close micing onstage!
Rock on!

Even more oddball idea: Enlist a friend to help and each of you do a mono recording of one L/R stack   :o
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Offline Pieteker

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2024, 09:55:10 AM »
Oddball idea: make a stack tape. Walk up and face the speaker in the balcony from about 10-15 feet away. You will look odd facing the speaker, but that will be an optimal way to reduce crowd chatter and pick up direct sound from the speaker. Of course, if this band has lots of stereo effects and you know they mix in stereo, then my advice is wrong. One of my finest recordings veer made in the 40 years of doing this was from about 6 feet from a Meyer UPA-1 in a balcony. We took over the front table and set the mics up almost as if we were close micing onstage!
Rock on!

Sounds good to me. Thanks!

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2024, 10:15:44 AM »
^ I'm thinking like those guys!

I once wore miniature omnis in the laces of my shoes recording from a side balcony up close to the stage and PA.  The PA speakers on that side were only ~10 feet away, down at foot level.  Made for a clear direct path from PA and stage to the mics, and positioned them about as far away as possible from all the mouths and clapping hands packed in below, behind and to the sides.  Worked really well.  Other times in similar situations I've dangled them over the rail, similarly positioning them.  Also used the on-shoe method a few other times for jazz gigs from right up front with the band setup on the floor rather than on a raised stage.  Each of those arrangements got nice clear direct sound and helped minimize direct pickup of nearby audience members.

Have thought many times about the approach DavidPuddy mentions, either with a friend, or by using a miniature planted rig on the opposite side, but have never done it.  Would be sort of the ultimate take on this technique.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 10:17:31 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline fanofjam

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2024, 03:45:14 PM »
Yup, that's exactly what I was going to suggest.  I'd just choose one of the stacks and record close up.  You'll still hear the chompers between songs but during the music the stacks will dominate most of the crowd noise. 

As far as recording both stacks for stereo, I've owned multiple recorders/rigs for a long time and it's not unheard of for me to find a place near a stack to stash one of my rigs and just let it record into either one or both channels, then I stealth the stack on the other side.  Requires a bit of skill in post to create the master recording, but nothing too technical.  It's mainly about matching the length of the two recordings using the stretch tool since two separate recorders will never synch up perfectly over the course of...say...a two-hour show.  By the end, one recording will be longer than the other by some numbers of milliseconds.  If you join them together without any stretching of one to match the other, the mix-down will start out sounding fine, but by the end of the recording you will start to hear a reverb type of effect.  Or if the time difference between the two recording is more than a few milliseconds, the effect is more of a slap-back effect. 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 03:48:30 PM by fanofjam »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2024, 04:34:25 PM »
^ End result after the channel sync'ing should be very similar to the technique of hanging a wide spaced pair out in front of the PA speakers as we discussed in a recent thread installing permanent mic rigs a venue, and in others in the past.    IME that technique can produce a recording with excellent upfront clarity, good stereo width, and a big open decorellated room and audience sound.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Thierry

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2024, 06:01:31 AM »
Palladium is such a shitty venue. You'd be better off in the balcony. The podium is quite low, things are hard to see if you aren't that tall.

Offline Pieteker

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2024, 03:29:12 PM »
Thank you all once again for your input; it is much appreciated.

I've decided to arrive early at the venue and secure my spot on the right side of the right PA speaker, where the lady in the white top is standing.



Pieter

Offline Pieteker

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2024, 03:31:27 PM »
Thank you all once again for your input; it is much appreciated.

I've decided to arrive early at the venue and secure my spot on the right side of the right PA speaker, where the lady in the white top is standing.



Pieter

Can I use my head rig with microphones attached to glasses for this?

Offline fanofjam

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2024, 03:45:47 PM »
Can I use my head rig with microphones attached to glasses for this?

Thats pretty much the location I go for when there's a wraparound balcony.  It'll be loud, but most mics should be able to handle it.  IMO that's a perfect situation for stack taping.  I'll lay my jacket or fanny pack down and have my rig hiding at my feet so I don't get muscle atrophy during the show...LOL. 

Offline Pieteker

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2024, 04:04:10 PM »
Can I use my head rig with microphones attached to glasses for this?

Thats pretty much the location I go for when there's a wraparound balcony.  It'll be loud, but most mics should be able to handle it.  IMO that's a perfect situation for stack taping.  I'll lay my jacket or fanny pack down and have my rig hiding at my feet so I don't get muscle atrophy during the show...LOL.

Good advice! Thx.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Help needed with taping strategy!
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2024, 04:05:02 PM »
^ Which also gets the mics farther away from the most nearby talking mouths and clapping hands.  But headworn will work too.  I'd slide a bit further away so as to be right next to the vertical support post, which will serve to shield you somewhat from folks screaming their enjoyment at the stage from the other side of the post.  If headworn, consider rotating the rig so it faces directly toward the close PA while you are able to face center stage.  Wear earplugs!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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