Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Soundboard attenuator DIY?  (Read 9462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nick_Riviera

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« on: March 21, 2024, 05:15:20 PM »
I've got a Roland R-07 and an upcoming show I'm considering trying to get a soundboard from. It has a mic in port and you can turn the power off and run powered mics, but from what I've read (on the R07 review threads here) I'd need an attenuator to patch in a SBD.

I'm very much a DIY sort of person, so I'm wondering how exactly I can make one, and how much troubleshooting might be involved - is it plug and play, or would I have to mess with the sensitivity and give the sound guys a reason to dislike me?

Apart from that, I've been really happy with the R07 so far. Very compact and some great features. My only wish might've been an xlr connection over the 3.5mm.

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (43)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4695
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2024, 09:09:53 PM »
Here's a pad diagram that can be built into the shell of an XLR connector. I made some years ago. You can fit the necessary resistors inside the shell of the XLR. It's just an Lpad type of voltage divider across pins 2 and 3.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 09:11:46 PM by goodcooker »
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline Sebastian

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1595
  • Gender: Male
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2024, 05:56:28 AM »
Here's a pad diagram that can be built into the shell of an XLR connector. I made some years ago. You can fit the necessary resistors inside the shell of the XLR. It's just an Lpad type of voltage divider across pins 2 and 3.


This method only works with a balanced signal. While this is obviously the case with most SBD feeds these days, there have been occasions in the past in which I have been given an unbalanced signal from the board when all balanced outputs were already taken. Therefore I'd suggest a slightly different approach that also works with a single-ended signal.

A single 4.7kΩ resistor (which is a standard value) in series with the non-inverting signal (pin 2 of the XLR input) will form a simple resistive divider with your R07's input impedence (4.5kΩ). This roughly divides the voltage in half, giving you a -6dB attenuation. Use a 15kΩ resistor instead for -12dB or 47kΩ for -21dB. You can leave pin 3 of the XLR input floating because your R07's input is single-ended anyway. And you'd only need one resistor instead of three.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 06:06:57 AM by Sebastian »

Offline checht

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 782
  • Let's meet at alternate foods at the break
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2024, 06:00:56 PM »
Here's a pad diagram that can be built into the shell of an XLR connector. I made some years ago. You can fit the necessary resistors inside the shell of the XLR. It's just an Lpad type of voltage divider across pins 2 and 3.


This method only works with a balanced signal. While this is obviously the case with most SBD feeds these days, there have been occasions in the past in which I have been given an unbalanced signal from the board when all balanced outputs were already taken. Therefore I'd suggest a slightly different approach that also works with a single-ended signal.

A single 4.7kΩ resistor (which is a standard value) in series with the non-inverting signal (pin 2 of the XLR input) will form a simple resistive divider with your R07's input impedence (4.5kΩ). This roughly divides the voltage in half, giving you a -6dB attenuation. Use a 15kΩ resistor instead for -12dB or 47kΩ for -21dB. You can leave pin 3 of the XLR input floating because your R07's input is single-ended anyway. And you'd only need one resistor instead of three.

Great point, in the past, I was given rca outs b/c nothing else was available.
This design also has the virtue of being simple enough to fit into rca connector, which is what I've done.
MK41s, MK22s; Vanguard V1s matched pair; Niaint x8
Schoeps kcy5, nbob actives
Naiant PFA 60v, PFA 48v, IPA
Sound Devices MP-6II; Sony PCM-A10

Recordings at LMA

Offline Nick_Riviera

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2024, 06:59:07 PM »
Thanks so much to everyone here! I'll investigate these options more. Might have to pick up another Roland or another recorder - I'd hate to put all my eggs in this basket to find out I flubbed this up (I won't get a chance to try it out or troubleshoot much ahead of time).

As far as plugging into the soundboard, which xlr connector should I be looking at?  Can't say I've ever spent much time looking at one before. I would probably wire it directly through a 3.5mm to plug into the R07.

Offline checht

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 782
  • Let's meet at alternate foods at the break
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2024, 07:28:12 PM »
Yup, a Y cable with 2 - xlr female plugs to a 1/9" trs will do it.

If you always/only run a little recorder, you can build the attenuation into the xlrs.
I usually run a MixPre 6 that can take pro line in so doesn't need attenuation, so I have a Y cable plus a 1/*" female to 1/8" male attenuating cable to add inline for going to a Sony A10.
MK41s, MK22s; Vanguard V1s matched pair; Niaint x8
Schoeps kcy5, nbob actives
Naiant PFA 60v, PFA 48v, IPA
Sound Devices MP-6II; Sony PCM-A10

Recordings at LMA

Offline Nick_Riviera

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2024, 07:42:23 PM »
Yup, a Y cable with 2 - xlr female plugs to a 1/9" trs will do it.

If you always/only run a little recorder, you can build the attenuation into the xlrs.
I usually run a MixPre 6 that can take pro line in so doesn't need attenuation, so I have a Y cable plus a 1/*" female to 1/8" male attenuating cable to add inline for going to a Sony A10.

I might need to research this a bit more - I had assumed I'd just need a single xlr. How would the wiring for a y cable work? Grd-grd, then... ?

I'll look up available xlr connectors and post back later, just to be sure I'm on the right page. Edit: something like this? Or should it be mini-xlr?

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Audio/AC3F-AU?qs=Lbk6Md3wKLuE7GFTJvXnsw%3D%3D

This sounds simple enough; I'd probably shoot for the 12db attenuation to be on the safe side. With the BT connection I could scale up the sensitivity pretty quickly if necessary.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 08:02:12 PM by Nick_Riviera »

Offline Sebastian

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1595
  • Gender: Male
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2024, 03:55:44 AM »
I'll look up available xlr connectors and post back later, just to be sure I'm on the right page. Edit: something like this? Or should it be mini-xlr?

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Audio/AC3F-AU?qs=Lbk6Md3wKLuE7GFTJvXnsw%3D%3D

Yeah, that'll work. But I personally would always go for connectors by Neutrik. They are really sturdy and easy to assemble. The one by Amphenol feels a little cheap.

This one, the NC3FX, is a de-facto industry standard:
https://mou.sr/3TLHbmn

The NC3FX-BAG is the black version of that. Or get the NC3FXX line if you want a little more modern looking connectors.

Here are some assembly instructions:
https://www.neutrik.com/media/8050/download/xlr-xx-series.pdf?v=1

Offline Nick_Riviera

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2024, 09:22:18 AM »
I'll look up available xlr connectors and post back later, just to be sure I'm on the right page. Edit: something like this? Or should it be mini-xlr?

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Audio/AC3F-AU?qs=Lbk6Md3wKLuE7GFTJvXnsw%3D%3D

Yeah, that'll work. But I personally would always go for connectors by Neutrik. They are really sturdy and easy to assemble. The one by Amphenol feels a little cheap.

This one, the NC3FX, is a de-facto industry standard:
https://mou.sr/3TLHbmn

The NC3FX-BAG is the black version of that. Or get the NC3FXX line if you want a little more modern looking connectors.

Here are some assembly instructions:
https://www.neutrik.com/media/8050/download/xlr-xx-series.pdf?v=1

Fantastic, so maybe simpler than I thought.

Just one connector I'd need, correct? It would carry both channels?

Thank you for digging all of this up, most of the searching I did led me to overly technical, old web pages without any helpful links to parts like you've provided.

Offline Sebastian

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1595
  • Gender: Male
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2024, 11:31:03 AM »

Fantastic, so maybe simpler than I thought.

Just one connector I'd need, correct? It would carry both channels?

Thank you for digging all of this up, most of the searching I did led me to overly technical, old web pages without any helpful links to parts like you've provided.

No, one connector per channel.

Offline checht

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 782
  • Let's meet at alternate foods at the break
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2024, 12:29:22 PM »

Fantastic, so maybe simpler than I thought.

Just one connector I'd need, correct? It would carry both channels?

Thank you for digging all of this up, most of the searching I did led me to overly technical, old web pages without any helpful links to parts like you've provided.

No, one connector per channel.

Thus the Y cable...
MK41s, MK22s; Vanguard V1s matched pair; Niaint x8
Schoeps kcy5, nbob actives
Naiant PFA 60v, PFA 48v, IPA
Sound Devices MP-6II; Sony PCM-A10

Recordings at LMA

Offline Nick_Riviera

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2024, 01:14:48 PM »
No, one connector per channel.

Thus the Y cable...

Ah - I think I see now, from Sebastian's initial post.  I was using tapatalk and the images weren't showing up, but now that I'm on my PC I see it.  P1+P1 = Grd (sleeve); P2a = R (Ring); P2b = L (Tip).  P3a and P3b both dead end.  Super simple!  Thank you both so much! I'll gather parts and then do a quick build post in a week or two :)

Offline checht

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 782
  • Let's meet at alternate foods at the break
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2024, 02:32:44 PM »
Here's my latest version:
MK41s, MK22s; Vanguard V1s matched pair; Niaint x8
Schoeps kcy5, nbob actives
Naiant PFA 60v, PFA 48v, IPA
Sound Devices MP-6II; Sony PCM-A10

Recordings at LMA

Offline Nick_Riviera

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2024, 03:03:02 PM »
Here's my latest version:

Nice.  I was thinking I'd have about 6" from the XLRs leading to about 4" on the TRS for my cabling

What db reduction are you using, or which have you found to be best? 

Offline checht

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 782
  • Let's meet at alternate foods at the break
Re: Soundboard attenuator DIY?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2024, 03:34:27 PM »
I went with 12db attenuation, as the recorders used have low noise floors.
MK41s, MK22s; Vanguard V1s matched pair; Niaint x8
Schoeps kcy5, nbob actives
Naiant PFA 60v, PFA 48v, IPA
Sound Devices MP-6II; Sony PCM-A10

Recordings at LMA

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 39 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF