Topic: Taping w/ CA-11's for first time tonight - Suggestions?

[jj69]

Thanks Chris.  That explains a lot.  The volume at this show was much lower than I expected.  It was a very large room too, and I was seated about halfway back. 

The PA volume is much louder at most of the rock shows I attend, so it will be interesting to see what kind of results I get next time. 

[jj69]

Just updating this thread because I had a chance to tape again over the weekend.  This time I taped a rock band in a small local bar/club.  The SPL in the room were very loud, and I was about 15 feet from the left stack (which also happened to be a newly upgraded PA).  The result this time was excellent.  I guess the motion effects I got on the last recording were, as Chris noted, due to the low volume in the room and the fact that I was pretty far back. 

FWIW, I had the mics mounted in the same positions on the front pockets of my shirt.  I tried mounting them on my shirt collar, but they're too heavy and they ended up pointing downward toward the floor.  Despite the same mounting position, I did not notice the treble rolloff I experienced last time. 

In fact, the only problem I had was not with the mics, but with the Sony PCM-M10.  Unfortunately, the automatic input level control was accidentally switched on for a few minutes during the first song.  I keep the unit in my pocket and it must have slid over while I was checking the input levels.  Luckily, I caught it right away.  I guess it's time to tape over those damn slider buttons on the M10. 

[acidjack]

^^ Yes, you should tape over pretty much every button on the thing that you won't be actually using to record.

And I would again STRONGLY recommend figuring out how to mount the mics on glasses or otherwise on your head (baseball caps are a popular choice). 

[jj69]

I hear what you're all saying regarding mounting the mics as high as possible, and I'm sure you're right that doing so might result in a slightly better recording.  However, the fact is that I have to draw the line somewhere.  For me, having to wear a baseball cap or having mics on my head would be so annoying that I'd rather not tape at all. 

There's a point where taping becomes more trouble than it's worth, and it can seriously interfere with one's enjoyment of the show.  I've already gone from insisting that the mic/Sony be left on a cocktail table, to wearing a single-point mic, to wearing separate stereo mics.  Frankly, that's as far as I'm willing to go.  I'm still frustrated by the fact that I have carry both a recorder and a batt box, both of which I feel are too big and cumbersome.  I especially hate the rat's nest of wires that ends up in my pocket with all the gear. 

[fmaderjr]

I'm still frustrated by the fact that I have carry both a recorder and a batt box, both of which I feel are too big and cumbersome.  I especially hate the rat's nest of wires that ends up in my pocket with all the gear. 

Chris Church disagrees, but illconditioned and many others have reported that CA-11's are powered fine by the M10's plug in power. You should be fine without the battery box even if the show is very loud.

If you feel the M10 is big & cumbersome be glad you never had to tape with a DAT....

[jj69]

I'm very skeptical about not using external battery power.  These are hard rock/metal bands I'm taping in clubs with rowdy crowds.  The volume was enough to overload several other mics, including the Sony's internals.  I believe the Sony provides only about 3V of plugin power, so I'd be surprised if I got an acceptable result.  If you think it's worth a try, I'll try taking the batt box out of the loop during an opening act to see how it goes. 

I sure wish Sony (or someone) would make a smaller M10 without all the useless features and with a separate battery power supply/preamp built right into the same housing.  That would be a dream come true! 

[adrianf74]

If you feel the M10 is big & cumbersome be glad you never had to tape with a DAT....

 

Or an analog D3 or D6 for that matter.

[fmaderjr]

I'm very skeptical about not using external battery power.  These are hard rock/metal bands I'm taping in clubs with rowdy crowds.  The volume was enough to overload several other mics, including the Sony's internals.  I believe the Sony provides only about 3V of plugin power, so I'd be surprised if I got an acceptable result.  If you think it's worth a try, I'll try taking the batt box out of the loop during an opening act to see how it goes. 

You may be right if the bands are that loud, but if there's a loud opening act you don't care about it can't hurt to try....

If you are willing to invest in another Church mic, you definitely could dump the battery box. Chris will make a set of C-11's with a 2.2 ohm resistor instead of his usual 4.7. This is designed to record loud concerts without a battery box. Costs the same as regular C A-11's. He may be able to make a CA-14 set this way as well, but you'd have to ask him. The modded CA mics can only be used with PIP and should not be used with a 9 volt battery box or your results would be uncertain.

[pontiacb]

I've used my CA11 cards straight into an iRiver on a few occasions when I've forgotten my battery box and have got good results at loud shows (The Fall were one band I can remember), certainly no distortion although admittedly I didnt stand really close to the stack, but it was pretty close and it was loud.

Re mounting on glasses/hat.  I agree that this is what we should do in an ideal world, but I can't be bothered with the extra hassle of doing this so I find the key is trying to get a clear direct line of sight between the mics and the stack, in which case having the mics a bit lower down isn't really an issue.

[aaronji]

I hear what you're all saying regarding mounting the mics as high as possible, and I'm sure you're right that doing so might result in a slightly better recording.  However, the fact is that I have to draw the line somewhere.  For me, having to wear a baseball cap or having mics on my head would be so annoying that I'd rather not tape at all. 

Not to mention that, for some shows, you'd look like an idiot wearing a hat (especially the ever popular Ventair)...

Additional height is good, if feasible, but I find that pontiacb's clear line of "sight" between the mics and the source works well for me.  There are also some venue characteristics (like stadium seating or elevated stacks) that can make the difference between head and shirt height more or less negligible...

[acidjack]

I hear what you're all saying regarding mounting the mics as high as possible, and I'm sure you're right that doing so might result in a slightly better recording.  However, the fact is that I have to draw the line somewhere.  For me, having to wear a baseball cap or having mics on my head would be so annoying that I'd rather not tape at all. 
There's a point where taping becomes more trouble than it's worth, and it can seriously interfere with one's enjoyment of the show.  I've already gone from insisting that the mic/Sony be left on a cocktail table, to wearing a single-point mic, to wearing separate stereo mics.  Frankly, that's as far as I'm willing to go.  I'm still frustrated by the fact that I have carry both a recorder and a batt box, both of which I feel are too big and cumbersome.  I especially hate the rat's nest of wires that ends up in my pocket with all the gear. 

Well, that might be the ticket. If you don't like your recordings, and you don't like the advice you're getting on how to improve them (i.e., you don't want to follow it), then I'm not sure what you are hoping to hear. ::SHRUGS::

[jj69]

I hear what you're all saying regarding mounting the mics as high as possible, and I'm sure you're right that doing so might result in a slightly better recording.  However, the fact is that I have to draw the line somewhere.  For me, having to wear a baseball cap or having mics on my head would be so annoying that I'd rather not tape at all. 
There's a point where taping becomes more trouble than it's worth, and it can seriously interfere with one's enjoyment of the show.  I've already gone from insisting that the mic/Sony be left on a cocktail table, to wearing a single-point mic, to wearing separate stereo mics.  Frankly, that's as far as I'm willing to go.  I'm still frustrated by the fact that I have carry both a recorder and a batt box, both of which I feel are too big and cumbersome.  I especially hate the rat's nest of wires that ends up in my pocket with all the gear. 

Well, that might be the ticket. If you don't like your recordings, and you don't like the advice you're getting on how to improve them (i.e., you don't want to follow it), then I'm not sure what you are hoping to hear. ::SHRUGS::

I don't think that's a fair statement.  I never said I don't like the recordings (I love the one I made this weekend), and I never said I don't like the advice I'm getting (I appreciate everyone efforts and suggestions a great deal, even if I choose not to accept every single piece of advice proffered). 

The point I was making is that we all have different priorities.  I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of quality, if necessary, in order to be more comfortable and enjoy the show itself.  For me, mounting mics and wires on my head is not worth the perceived improvement in recording quality (if any).  YMMV.