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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: badsneakers on October 23, 2005, 09:01:04 PM
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I have been reading this board for weeks now. Even have a few post sunder my belt. But there is so much information and I'm getting a headache : )
I originally was thinking about getting the MAudio MT but now I'm not sure. The bugs might be a bit much for this newbie to deal with.
What I want for a recording device is an all in one box. Seems everyone dreams of this.
What ever I get would be used for pretty much just my band and some friends bands. I need something easy to set up before I have to hop on stage. I would also prefer to not deal with a pre-amp just some nice mics and a box with good battery life, recording space, phantom power and a decent built in pre amp. Does something like this exist, even a mod that makes the stock pre sound good?? Something I would be happy with, without a separate pre but have the option to add on later
I am currently the high bidder on a pair of SP C4's but if I should have better mics in lu of a pre I can always sell them. I planed on spending around $1000 to get started -$250 for the C4's I have another $750-800 to go.
Sorry the post is so long.
I play loud heavy rock in small venues if that makes any difference.
any and all help is greatly appreciated.
thanks
-aarne
???
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edirol ua5 and a nomad jb3 w/ some money left over OR
you can get a modded ua5>jb3 and that would run about the 750-800
if ya dont wanna deal a a pre and are set on that, I'd roll w/ PS-2(phatom power)>AD/20>Nomad JB3, thats an even cheaper option, maybe 600 max there
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I am currently the high bidder on a pair of SP C4's but if I should have better mics in lu of a pre I can always sell them. I planed on spending around $1000 to get started -$250 for the C4's I have another $750-800 to go.
Perhaps look into the Marantz PMD-660 with mods offered through Oade. I have a PMD-671 (slightly larger and 24 bit), the 660 it only does 16 bit, but it does supply phantom, the A/D is decent. You'd have to factor in the cost of a CF card as well, you can usually score a 4GB card for just under $200 or a 2GB for around $100 if you keep your eyes open to the Retail Section.
http://oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/images/PMD-660.jpg
For $750-800 you could probably score a decent pre and separate recorder, not as simple for setup.
Definitely keep re-sale value in mind if you plan on upgrading.
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thanks a lot for the help.
what about th MAudio MT with out a pre, would it sound pretty good?
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I would second an ACM 660.
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Once again, I'll recommend an Edirol UA-5. Either an Oade digi-mod or self-digi-mod. Option for future preamp upgrades, either Oade or Busman. Provides the ability to run AUD+SBD mixes on the fly. Also keeps the door open for 24-bit recording in the future by simply changing recorders, say from a 16-bit JB3 to an M-Audio MicroTrack 2496. I still think this is the finest value (features/price/performance) of any preamp/ADC combo available.
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Once again, I'll recommend an Edirol UA-5. Either an Oade digi-mod or self-digi-mod. Option for future preamp upgrades, either Oade or Busman. Provides the ability to run AUD+SBD mixes on the fly. Also keeps the door open for 24-bit recording in the future by simply changing recorders, say from a 16-bit JB3 to an M-Audio MicroTrack 2496. I still think this is the finest value (features/price/performance) of any preamp/ADC combo available.
If you don't mind giving a little bit in the way of convenience, very simple setup, it'd be a great way to go. I'm sure once you've ran the setup a couple times you can probably have it ready to go fairly quickly. For the $, you can't go wrong, plus the equipment is pretty good in the resale dept., but I'm guessing it'd keep you happy enough that you wouldn't want to upgrade all that soon. The PMD-660 I suggested is simple, all-in-one, but if I were buying, separate components, you can't go wrong here.
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I would second an ACM 660.
Is this machine as easy to use as the R1 seems to be from what I have read anyway?
with the acm 660 you don't have the option to add a pre down the road right? but the point is you don't realy need one because of the mods? With the R1 to sound decent I would have to run a pre right? I think I'm begining to understand all of this.
Once again, I'll recommend an Edirol UA-5. Either an Oade digi-mod or self-digi-mod. Option for future preamp upgrades, either Oade or Busman. Provides the ability to run AUD+SBD mixes on the fly. Also keeps the door open for 24-bit recording in the future by simply changing recorders, say from a 16-bit JB3 to an M-Audio MicroTrack 2496. I still think this is the finest value (features/price/performance) of any preamp/ADC combo available.
I like that you think ahead. But if the ACM660 sounds really good with nice mics, SPC4's perhaps, I would be set for a long while provided everything was still working good. I'm use to taping shows with a mini disc and a horrible Sony stereo condenser mic so anything is going to sound like gold now.
That's what I'm thinking.
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Once again, I'll recommend an Edirol UA-5. Either an Oade digi-mod or self-digi-mod. Option for future preamp upgrades, either Oade or Busman. Provides the ability to run AUD+SBD mixes on the fly. Also keeps the door open for 24-bit recording in the future by simply changing recorders, say from a 16-bit JB3 to an M-Audio MicroTrack 2496. I still think this is the finest value (features/price/performance) of any preamp/ADC combo available.
If you don't mind giving a little bit in the way of convenience, very simple setup, it'd be a great way to go. I'm sure once you've ran the setup a couple times you can probably have it ready to go fairly quickly. For the $, you can't go wrong, plus the equipment is pretty good in the resale dept., but I'm guessing it'd keep you happy enough that you wouldn't want to upgrade all that soon. The PMD-660 I suggested is simple, all-in-one, but if I were buying, separate components, you can't go wrong here.
I think we were both replying at the same time a few minutes ago. ;D
do you think the PMD-660 with the Oade ACM mod would sound about as good as the components suggested above? I don't know that I would be looking to upgrade anytime soon. I do know that when I have a gig that between socializing and setting up my bass gear I want to deal with the least amount of recording gear as possible. But still have a good recording and do some other shows if the mood should strike.
thanks a lot for everyone's help!!
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I like that you think ahead. But if the ACM660 sounds really good with nice mics, SPC4's perhaps, I would be set for a long while provided everything was still working good.
The impact on sound quality from gear typically goes from biggest impact to least:
<1> mics
<2> preamp
<3> ADC
At ~$300 for a UA5, + $150, or even a high $200 for a JB3, you're looking at a total of about $500 for pre/ADC/recorder. That would allow you to take the difference between the 660 and the UA5/JB3 and apply it to better mics. Not that the C4s aren't good mics, but since mics have the biggest impact on sound quality, it makes sense to spend as much as you can budget on mics.
As for simplicity, with the 660 you'll plug your mic cables directly into the 660. For the UA5/JB3 combo, you'll plug your mic cables directly into the UA5, and then have one additional cable - an optical cable - running between the UA5 and JB3.
Edit to add: At any rate, you'll likely be very pleased with either setup! They're both quality pre/ADC/recorder options.
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well I just got out bid on the C4's and I was at $240 I think. I figure I shouldn't go higher if I can buy new for $300.
As luck would have it I just hit $500 on a scratch ticket. ;D :o ;D
So better mics could be in my future
I just don't know what. The Schoeps MSTC 64U seem like an interesting set up from the oade site. Have no idea what they cost though.
lol...just found them listed on another site for $2,879.00
next!
ehhh...
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I like that you think ahead. But if the ACM660 sounds really good with nice mics, SPC4's perhaps, I would be set for a long while provided everything was still working good.
The impact on sound quality from gear typically goes from biggest impact to least:
<1> mics
<2> preamp
<3> ADC
At ~$300 for a UA5, + $150, or even a high $200 for a JB3, you're looking at a total of about $500 for pre/ADC/recorder. That would allow you to take the difference between the 660 and the UA5/JB3 and apply it to better mics. Not that the C4s aren't good mics, but since mics have the biggest impact on sound quality, it makes sense to spend as much as you can budget on mics.
As for simplicity, with the 660 you'll plug your mic cables directly into the 660. For the UA5/JB3 combo, you'll plug your mic cables directly into the UA5, and then have one additional cable - an optical cable - running between the UA5 and JB3.
Edit to add: At any rate, you'll likely be very pleased with either setup! They're both quality pre/ADC/recorder options.
660 setup = cake setup, but also factor in CF flash memory, it might end up costing 2X as much as the UA-5>JB3.
UA5/JB3 combo you have the optical cable to run (as well as a battery for the UA-5 correct me if I'm wrong)
With the JB3 you'll have longer record times (at least 5X the 660 that uses compact flash = extra $)
What would a UA-5>MT2496 combo w/ CF memory run? In comparison to the modded 660?
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UA5/JB3 combo you have the optical cable to run (as well as a battery for the UA-5 correct me if I'm wrong)
No, you're correct - I forgot about the battery cable.
What would a UA-5>MT2496 combo w/ CF memory run? In comparison to the modded 660?
Digi-mod UA5, let's assume a high price of $300. Add the MT2496 at $300. And a 4GB CF for another $200. Total of around $800.
IMO, don't go with a 24-bit solution today, if your playback system won't accommodate it. But...that doesn't mean one shouldn't prepare for the future.
Sneakers - what's your overall budget for mics + preamp + ADC + recorder? Is it still the $1,000 initially stated, or is it now up to $1,500 or somewhere in between based on your winnings?
If still $1,000, UA5/JB3 at $500 still leaves $500 for mics. The Peluso's fall about in that range, I think, with a single set of caps. Or AKG 39x. If your budget's up to $1,500, that leaves ~$1,000 after the UA5/JB3 for mics, getting you into something like MG M300s, Neumann KM184s, AKG 480s, MBHO 603s, etc. All very good mics.
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If still $1,000, UA5/JB3 at $500 still leaves $500 for mics. The Peluso's fall about in that range, I think, with a single set of caps. Or AKG 39x. If your budget's up to $1,500, that leaves ~$1,000 after the UA5/JB3 for mics, getting you into something like MG M300s, Neumann KM184s, AKG 480s, MBHO 603s, etc. All very good mics.
AKG 391's w/active asking $600 right now in the Yard Sale section, I'm guessing they won't last long.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52718.0
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AKG 391's w/active asking $600 right now in the Yard Sale section, I'm guessing they won't last long. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52718.0
Don't the actives alone go for > $300?!? Wow, helluva deal, unless I'm mistaken.
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a UA5 will be be around $300 without mods I beleive. a MT2496 is around $400 2gig CF to start $100
$800
ACM 660 as lsited on website $749 2gig CF $100
$850
UA5/JB3 combo around $500 with no special mods done to UA5 I guess I need a power supply for the UA5 but that should be cheap enough.
I would rule out the MT option because the 660 has a proven track record.
I don't know
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AKG 391's w/active asking $600 right now in the Yard Sale section, I'm guessing they won't last long. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52718.0
Don't the actives alone go for > $300?!? Wow, helluva deal, unless I'm mistaken.
Great deal IMO.
AND... drum roll... :drummer: just posted
JB3
- two batts
- usb cable
- toslink cable w/toslink mini end
- ac adapter
- softare
i'd like what I pad, which is $207 shipped to your door.
PapPal preffered..but will take a check.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52737.0
that leaves about $400 in your pocket for a UA-5 and battery solution (pretty inexpensive).
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AKG 391's w/active asking $600 right now in the Yard Sale section, I'm guessing they won't last long. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52718.0
Don't the actives alone go for > $300?!? Wow, helluva deal, unless I'm mistaken.
what do these sell for new?
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UA5/JB3 combo you have the optical cable to run (as well as a battery for the UA-5 correct me if I'm wrong)
No, you're correct - I forgot about the battery cable.
What would a UA-5>MT2496 combo w/ CF memory run? In comparison to the modded 660?
Digi-mod UA5, let's assume a high price of $300. Add the MT2496 at $300. And a 4GB CF for another $200. Total of around $800.
IMO, don't go with a 24-bit solution today, if your playback system won't accommodate it. But...that doesn't mean one shouldn't prepare for the future.
Sneakers - what's your overall budget for mics + preamp + ADC + recorder? Is it still the $1,000 initially stated, or is it now up to $1,500 or somewhere in between based on your winnings?
If still $1,000, UA5/JB3 at $500 still leaves $500 for mics. The Peluso's fall about in that range, I think, with a single set of caps. Or AKG 39x. If your budget's up to $1,500, that leaves ~$1,000 after the UA5/JB3 for mics, getting you into something like MG M300s, Neumann KM184s, AKG 480s, MBHO 603s, etc. All very good mics.
I could do around $1500
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AKG 391's w/active asking $600 right now in the Yard Sale section, I'm guessing they won't last long. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52718.0
Don't the actives alone go for > $300?!? Wow, helluva deal, unless I'm mistaken.
what do these sell for new?
I'm guessing you could find a retailer and get the AKG's for around $625-700 new, but that's w/out active cables.
If you can swing a little more cash, I'd prefer the MBHO's. MBHO's are pretty bright, AKG's are what I'd call "Dark", a little too simplistic. If you might want to pick up additional caps later on, I'd probably go with the AKG's.
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so there is no real benefit to the ACM 660 sound wise over the UA5>JB3 just a little more portability
The purchase of the 660 would still leave me with 500-600 for mics.
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AKG 391's w/active asking $600 right now in the Yard Sale section, I'm guessing they won't last long. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=52718.0
Don't the actives alone go for > $300?!? Wow, helluva deal, unless I'm mistaken.
what do these sell for new?
I'm guessing you could find a retailer and get the AKG's for around $625-700 new, but that's w/out active cables.
If you can swing a little more cash, I'd prefer the MBHO's. MBHO's are pretty bright, AKG's are what I'd call "Dark", a little too simplistic. If you might want to pick up additional caps later on, I'd probably go with the AKG's.
Thats the thing I'm not sure if I wouldwant to pick up additional caps later on. My potential new rig whatever it may be would be used mostly for loud and heavy type music. In small to medium sized venues.
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so there is no real benefit to the ACM 660 sound wise over the UA5>JB3 just a little ore portability
The purchase of the 600 would still leave me with 500-600 for mics.
Just to clarify, do you mean the PDM-660? If so, make sure the price is for a Mod'd PMD-660 (Oade.com), stock the unit isn't all that useful for louder PA recording.
I'd give the edge to the UA-5 for the better sounding A/D, so the decision would be down to $ and portability.
The more $ for mics the better, that's your front line!
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Yeah I the price was for the top Oade mod. I do realy like not having to deal with anything but one machine and mics. But I don't want to sacrifice to much in sound quality.
I really appreciate all the help.
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Yeah I the price was for the top Oade mod. I do realy like not having to deal with anything but one machine and mics. But I don't want to sacrifice to much in sound quality.
I really appreciate all the help.
I have an Oade mod'ed 671 and love it, I can't imagine the UA-5>? would sound THAT much better than the PMD-660, you'll gain much more with your microphone choice.
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Don't the actives alone go for > $300?!? Wow, helluva deal, unless I'm mistaken.
Ahhh...this explains the low price - actives will only be of interest to those using them exclusively for stealthing, given their short length:
2 AKG mk90/3-h98 - active cables (note: cable length is only 4ft - perfect for stealthing!)
a UA5 will be be around $300 without mods I beleive. a MT2496 is around $400 2gig CF to start $100
UA5s are available pretty regularly in the Yard Sale. Keep an eye out. And the MT2496 is $300 at Guitar Center, not $400.
UA5/JB3 combo around $500 with no special mods done to UA5 I guess I need a power supply for the UA5 but that should be cheap enough.
Max $50 for power supply.
I do realy like not having to deal with anything but one machine and mics. But I don't want to sacrifice to much in sound quality.
An extra 2 cables - one for UA5 > JB3, another for battery > UA5 - really isn't that big a deal. Takes all of about an extra 18 seconds to hook up, if that.
My final recommendation:
Mics - pick up a used pair in the ~$1k or slightly less range. As stated earlier, this gets you into some really fantastic mics like AKG 480s, Neumann KM184s, Microtech Gefell M300s, MBHO 603/KA200s, etc. or the slightly less expensive Peluso's. If you don't know which to get, listen to some recordings using these mics and the UA5. And if you still can't decide, pick up whatever's available used - any of them, just pick one. Why? <1> It's tough to know whether you like the gear until you actually run it yourself, <2> you can always sell it for what you paid (or damn close) and incur no financial downside if you decide you don't like the mics and want to change to something else.
Pre/ADC - digi-mod UA5, used (no longer available new).
Recorder - JB3 (used, no longer - or only rarely - available new). They're popping up regularly on the used market as people switch over to the MT2496. 16-bit isn't going away any time soon, and sounds mighty fine, so don't sweat the latest and greatest MT2496, and the other 24-bit recorders now hitting the market. Plenty of time to upgrade to 24-bit later, especially after upgrading your playback system to gain the most benefit from the increased resolution at 24-bit.
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Yeah I the price was for the top Oade mod. I do realy like not having to deal with anything but one machine and mics. But I don't want to sacrifice to much in sound quality.
I really appreciate all the help.
I have an Oade mod'ed 671 and love it, I can't imagine the UA-5>? would sound THAT much better than the PMD-660, you'll gain much more with your microphone choice.
really? what type of mod? i recall hearing that doug wasnt gonna have the parts for the ACM mod 671 for quite some time so im just wondering
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If you can swing a little more cash, I'd prefer the MBHO's. MBHO's are pretty bright, AKG's are what I'd call "Dark", a little too simplistic. If you might want to pick up additional caps later on, I'd probably go with the AKG's.
I'm guessing mics that are a little more "bright" would be good for bass heavy music.
Maybe?
ehh.
;D
Mics - pick up a used pair in the ~$1k or slightly less range. As stated earlier, this gets you into some really fantastic mics like AKG 480s, Neumann KM184s, Microtech Gefell M300s, MBHO 603/KA200s, etc. or the slightly less expensive Peluso's. If you don't know which to get, listen to some recordings using these mics and the UA5. And if you still can't decide, pick up whatever's available used - any of them, just pick one. Why? <1> It's tough to know whether you like the gear until you actually run it yourself, <2> you can always sell it for what you paid (or damn close) and incur no financial downside if you decide you don't like the mics and want to change to something else.
thanks for the mic recomendations
so many to lchoices
I priced out new 391's on my lunch but forgot what I was quoted.
I wrote it down though