Topic: Comparison: Stock vs. Busman T-Mod Fostex FR2LE

[Will_S]

Thanks to Tim (notsofast) I was able to pull off a semi-scientific comparison between a stock and Busman T-modded Fostex FR2-LE.  It's not perfect, but it's the best I could do.

Right off the bat, I should note that I did this during the soundcheck to a show, so I could swap recorders mid-song without worrying about any cuts.  So to the extent that the recording sounds like it was made in a big empty room, it was, and that should not be considered a fault of either recorder.

The setup was Audix M1290 hypercardioids in a DINa configuration, 7' up, 30' back, DFC, directly into one deck or the other (running at 24/44.1).  I tried to get the levels roughly equal in the field, peaking at about -12 dB.  But to correct for this, I peak normalized both sources in post (using Sound Studio), normalizing each channel independently to hopefully correct for any mismatch in the channel gain settings on the masters.  This was the only post-processing done.

The results are here.  A-D come from one song, and E-H from another.  Each recorder was used at least once for each song.  Edit: Each recorder was used twice on both songs.  Everyone so far seems to have assumed that anyway, and a statistical analysis of the results is actually easier if we assume everyone knows this.

I'll post a key and my own thoughts in a few days, hopefully after some others have given their blind thoughts.  Let me know if anything is obviously wrong with any of the files, I deliberately didn't listen too closely to any in hopes I would be able to forget which files were which.

All files are 24/44.1 FLACs, 10-15 seconds and 2-3 MB each.

http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComparison/CompA.flac
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComparison/CompB.flac
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComparison/CompC.flac
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComparison/CompD.flac

http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComparison/CompE.flac
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComparison/CompF.flac
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComparison/CompG.flac
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComparison/CompH.flac

[page]

Thanks for doing something in the field (and motivating me). I'll post my results (non-field) about the tmod in a bit, I've been slacking.

[rowjimmytour]

+t's to wills and notsofast for this lab test and for further developing the taping section

[Will_S]

All the FLAC files in one zip file for easier downloading (16.6 MB):

http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/FR2LEComp.zip

[willndmb]

thanks
i don't hear any real difference between any of them myself
i think i will keep my fr2le stock now

[digifish_music]

thanks
i don't hear any real difference between any of them myself

+T for the comparison.

I also can't hear any difference on that material. I'd love to hear a ticking clock comparison in a very quiet location.

digifish

[page]

Does anyone have any space for some FLAC files? I've got some 24/96 stuff I recorded before and after the mod that I need some space to host. (clips of some non-live stuff, silence with TRS jacks, etc). Most clips are about 30-45 seconds.

[Will_S]

thanks
i don't hear any real difference between any of them myself

+T for the comparison.

I also can't hear any difference on that material. I'd love to hear a ticking clock comparison in a very quiet location.

That would have been nice.  Although it's worth noting that for many of us, this was about as quiet an environment as we ever record in - empty theater with no fans or AC running.  I also wish I'd thought to run stage lip for a bit, as more of a test of the ability to image music coming from actual instruments.  Or spent some time running hotter, maybe the upgraded chips can only do their magic when driven near (into?) clipping.

I need to do some more listening before I offer an opinion on whether I can pick out any differences but if they are there, they are subtle at least given my mics, my playback, and my ears.  YMMV.
I need to do some more careful listening before I offer an opinion on whether I can hear any differences.

Keep the comments coming.  PM me if you want a spoiler.

[Will_S]

Does anyone have any space for some FLAC files? I've got some 24/96 stuff I recorded before and after the mod that I need some space to host. (clips of some non-live stuff, silence with TRS jacks, etc). Most clips are about 30-45 seconds.

I've got some space, PM me for details.

[Brian Skalinder]

Tough for me to compare with such short samples and different portions of songs for each, but a fun exercise nonetheless.  I'm not at all familiar with the mics and / or recorder, or the music (which I definitely like it), which makes it even more challenging.  Here's my stab:

1st Set:  A / D one source, B / C the other.  I had the toughest time placing B, in part due to the lack of vocals which the other clips all included.

2nd Set:  E / G one source, F / H the other.

B/C/E/G sounds like it has a deeper sense of space, more detailed, warmer / fuzzier bass, and levels a bit stronger on the R side.  A/D/F/H sounds like it has less depth / sense of space than the other, less detail, but punchier and a little more up front, with levels better balanced.

Then again, if I have my sample selection all screwed up, then they all sound different and / or the same. 

Thanks for the comp!

[Will_S]

Spoiler sent via PM.  Thanks and +T to everyone who's responded so far.

A couple points that can be discussed without spoiling anything:

The band is the Waybacks.  The drum kit was slightly right (audience perspective) of center stage, the guitar amp slightly left (although I think most of the guitar was coming through the PA) and the bass amp far to the right (although again much was coming through the PA). 

[rastasean]

I'm interested in what digifish is wondering. I have a stock FR2LE and when I recording just recording people talking, I have to raise the gain A LOT and this is with an AT822. How much of a difference could/would the mod make for that kind of situation. Everything I've read about this recorder (other than here) indicates it would be great for a 'field reporting' and recording. I would completely disagree unless my recorder has some major problems.

[Will_S]

Oh yeah, my apologies about only B from the ABCD grouping lacking vocals, unfortunately due to the limited amount of material I had for one of the recorders that was a necessity.

OK, here are my semi-blind thoughts.  You can tell I wasn't cheating (at least, not entirely so) because I want to pick 3 groups:

First song:
It sounds to me like B and D group together.  A and C each seem to be distinct from the others.  I felt like I could localize the bass amp best in A.  C sounded like it was calling attention to itself - not blatantly so by any means but it just seemed to grab me more than the others somehow, a little more upfront.
I liked B and D the best overall.

Second song:
I had a tough time picking out differences, but F seemed to stand out as less dark than the rest, maybe grouping with H.

[notsofast]

Interesting test and fun to listen and figure out which samples are which deck. Here is my not so golden ear thoughts. Given all the shows over the many years, my ears are not what they used to be.

I prefer the openness , seperation and tonal accuracy of B-D-F-H. I can hear the Mandolin more clearly in the background on D for example. All of the samples are close but from a personal taste and old ears place I like B-D-F-H.  If I have to pick 2, I agree with you Will, I like B and D.

I think I know which samples are which deck but I do have a bias and own one of the decks. This was really fun to do and hope it provides folks out there a good comparison for those shopping for a FR2LE or curious about modding their FR2LE.

Thanks to you Will_S for doing this. Look forward to meeting up with you at other shows.

Tim

[Will_S]

Keep the replies coming folks.

No one's gotten everything exactly right yet.