Topic: To get the SD 702, or wait for something newer?

[Xonic]

For a while now, I've been giving serious thought to the SD 702. I'm being held back for a number of reasons:
Firstly, obviously, it's very expensive. That in itself isn't a problem, but for the other reasons.
It has no USB 2 or 3, only firewire. This might seem like nit picking, but I transfer via USB all the time, I'd miss it. Worse, I've heard that the FW connection is quite unstable and that if you pull it out wrong, it can blow the board on the SD. This direct from the SD support centre, which isn't that encouraging.
Because I have no eye sight, I need a way to gang both gains, so that I'm recording in stereo with the same levels on either side. That's not an issue in itself I understand this can be done, but then the second gain knob becomes the balance knob. Again not an issue, but from what SD tech support tell me, there's no way of knowing when that knob is in the middle, no knotch or groove or indent so you can line it up. I'd be forever worried that I didn't have it set right, although I have thought of getting a sighted person to set it for me and then simply taping over it once it's resessed.

The battery options on the 702 confuse me. I've heard with a decent battery in there you can get about 10 hours with moderately hungry phantom powered mics, then again some people say 3 hours, so it's difficult to tell. HOpefuly with a flash card it would be a lot longer than 3 hours.

Finally, I know it is perhaps a silly thing to say, but the unit came out almost 11 years ago from what I understand. Surely SD has something up their sleaves which is newer? I know they recently released another field mixer, but I was thinking of a small updated 702 type recorder. Is it perhaps worth waiting a few months to see what else they come up with? are there any alternatives that sound just as good and are very very small??

[carlbeck]

I had the 702 & the quality can't be beat. I'd have no problem running one again, the ADC is top notch, the feature set is perfect for what I do & the levels are the best in the business. Personally I don't think you can do better in a portable unit. I did all my transfers by pulling the CF card so the lack of USB was never a concern. Battery life was excellent with one of the Sony batteries but there are other solutions now that will give you even better battery life with hungry phantom powered mics. I can't say whether Sound Devices has anything else up their sleeves but I'm sure they've made enhancements as necessary with the current product.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

One of the things I like about the company, in addition to their great support and their products, is that SD isn't following the typical practice of obsoleting their products every couple of years for some "new" product just for the sake of pushing customers to upgrade.  Some companies will hold back features in a product because they want to introduce them in the next version.  SD hasn't done that.  Their product has been fairly timeless.

Now that usb3 is here, there is something to be said for upgrading that area of the unit.  Maybe there will be an upgrade.  I never had any issues with the firewire, and you can buy a firewire card for a PC for $20-$60.

I don't think you'll have issues with the balance control.  But since you will be feeling across the controls, I suppose it could get turned whiled recessed. Though that would be very difficult.  I have tried to adjust the gain before without popping the knob out, and it would very difficult to do.  The key thing would be to remove any possibility of that happening, to eliminate potential anxiety (I think we can all relate to that to that while recording!). Certainly a tuft of gaffer tape would do that.

I'd try and find a used 702 or 722.

[H₂O]

I think their is a difference with "built in obsolescence" and product obsolescence.

Although the feature set of the older 7xx series is still good and the AD is good, in my opinion the 702, 722, 702t, and 744t are reaching the point of product obsolescence.  They are almost ten years old now and lack a lot of the features other recorders have in the same market position.

I hope SD starts phasing these out and release more in yet 6xx line

[stancourtney]

What newer or better features would anyone want to see in an updated 722?

[H₂O]

- USB for connecting to PC/Mac
- USB input for extra control (I.e. Keyboard, wireless, control surface, etc)
- license based (I.e. All hardware is same but functionality depends on the licenses installed, such as Aeta 4mnx, zaxcom, etc). - I can buy 4 channels now but add 4 more later through a license upgrade
- mixing capabilities
- large color display
- easy to navigate menus
- touch display (nice to have but not a deal breaker)
- AES42 w/ optional real time sample rate conversion and digital gain
- remote control and feedback via wifi or Bluetooth through iPad/android app (similar to 788 cl-wifi)
- better pre-amps
- DSD record capability - longshot but I really like dsd

[page]

I don't really disagree with the wishlist, but having used a 7 series box and currently (occasionally using my usbpre2), they are close to what I see as perfection. I do wish battery failover was programable (fail from A>B or B>A), currently it's just external>internal and I understand why, but it would be nice. Everything else on my list they seem to have resolved with the 788 (programmable LEDs being one).

More on topic, working without sight would be difficult, I'm not sure how you would be able to set levels (unless you wouldn't and would go off of estimated SPL), or do anything with the screen. As for the powering, you can use the external connector with a battery to extend the life; I used to use a tekkeon lithium poly battery which got me close to 9 or 10 hours with P48 and hdd/cf writing on my 722. The camera batteries which fit in the bottom don't last as long, but they switch on automatically when the external power fails. The biggest one I had was around 9000mah and lasted me about 5 hours when it was brand new.

[Xonic]

5 hours brand new? wow that's not very long. I could get my ls100 which has surprisingly good preamps for the money, stick a 12000 small battery pack on there and have it run for about 10 hours or probably a lot more. That's the thing about this recorder, if I could get one for say £1000 I wouldn't be asking these questions, but even used they're about 1500. #granted my mixpre was used and it was utterly and completely rock solid.
Re the tech support, I've never liked this at all. The guys I speak to seem to be very arrogant and very unwilling to help. When I mentioned the issue about the balance, they told me I'd be best off looking for something else. NOt really a great advert for their product
BTW, death to all touch displays on recorders! I realise I'm bias here, but honestly they should all have a, a cover over them if they're going to be used and most importantly b, a way of controlling the thing without a touch display. I do agree re the remote control option for the 702 though, in fact this would be very useful to attach to a rycot pistol grip and uwe that way rather than reaching around and fiddling with the record buttons.

[Amir]

For a while now, I've been giving serious thought to the SD 702. I'm being held back for a number of reasons:
Firstly, obviously, it's very expensive. That in itself isn't a problem, but for the other reasons.
It has no USB 2 or 3, only firewire. This might seem like nit picking, but I transfer via USB all the time, I'd miss it. Worse, I've heard that the FW connection is quite unstable and that if you pull it out wrong, it can blow the board on the SD. This direct from the SD support centre, which isn't that encouraging.
Because I have no eye sight, I need a way to gang both gains, so that I'm recording in stereo with the same levels on either side. That's not an issue in itself I understand this can be done, but then the second gain knob becomes the balance knob. Again not an issue, but from what SD tech support tell me, there's no way of knowing when that knob is in the middle, no knotch or groove or indent so you can line it up. I'd be forever worried that I didn't have it set right, although I have thought of getting a sighted person to set it for me and then simply taping over it once it's resessed.

The battery options on the 702 confuse me. I've heard with a decent battery in there you can get about 10 hours with moderately hungry phantom powered mics, then again some people say 3 hours, so it's difficult to tell. HOpefuly with a flash card it would be a lot longer than 3 hours.

Finally, I know it is perhaps a silly thing to say, but the unit came out almost 11 years ago from what I understand. Surely SD has something up their sleaves which is newer? I know they recently released another field mixer, but I was thinking of a small updated 702 type recorder. Is it perhaps worth waiting a few months to see what else they come up with? are there any alternatives that sound just as good and are very very small??

It seems that we are, or were,  in the same boat. Also, I'm visually impaired and have the same concerns about the gains. the 702 is a great recorder -- no doubt about it, but the lack of USB connection along with the high price killed it for me. I now combine the D50 with my USBPre2 when I need high-quality recordings. I'm planning to get the D100 to replace the D50. IMO the USBPre2 can do the job quite efficiently if your recorder has digital-in. Granted, the LS-100 (which I also use) doesn't, but with the D100 (or even something like Tascam DR-100MKII) that's doable. Besides, personally I don't think we'll see the 702 successor in a few months or so as it wasn't displayed in CES 2014 or NAM 2014 either.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

My preferences..  I hate touch displays.  They get greasy, scratched, etc.  They have no tactile feedback.  They can't be used with gloves. In contrast, I can reach into my bag without looking and potentially use tactile controls, push a button a certain number of times, etc.

And color.. No need.  Color displays typically wear out more quickly.  Designers also often forget that 20% of males are color blind.

It's been years since I sold my 722, so I'm foggy on battery life.  But my recollection is that it should be much longer than 5 hours with a 9000mah battery.  I ran mid size batteries and I think I would get 5+ hours with phantom on.

[H₂O]

I have a large color touch screen on my hs-p82 and it would be hard for me to give that up - nowadays modern color LCD displays last plenty long - my iPhone 4 is on constantly and still looks as good as it did day one which was almost 3 years ago

[dogmusic]

I now combine the D50 with my USBPre2 when I need high-quality recordings...or even something like Tascam DR-100MKII.

I think this is the best deal out there -- the USBPre2 & the Tascam DR-100MKII, digital in -- if you don't mind two boxes.

Basically a 702 for about $1000, but with so many options.

[stevetoney]

As far as the center detente for the balance control, I think you have a couple of potential options.. 

The most logical option I'd say is to use the headphone amp and a good set of sound isolating in-ear-monitors and set your balance and levels by sound.  The headphone amp is better than most recorders in terms of the volume it provides for monitoring during the show and there are numerous options for monitoring as your rotate the headphone control knob, which is separate from the volume knob, through its settings.  Those options include monitoring input channels in stereo, monitoring each channel in mono (through both sides of your headphones simultaneously), or monitoring outputs in stereo and mono. 

The second option would be to go by feel based on the knob travel limits from clockwise to counter-clockwise.  There's a small notch on the top face of each of the knobs to indicate it's relative position.  That notch, as I recall, isn't overly pronounced so you probably wouldn't be able to feel it on its own, but it seems to me that you could easily install a dab of something like finger polish or perhaps epoxy onto the top of the knob that gives you a feel for the relative position of the knob with respect to its rotational location.   

As far as battery life goes, I never really thought that was much of an issue.  I've built myself a dummy cell that plugs into the back of my SD recorder.  The dummy cell is the shell only of an M or L sized Sony battery.  I bought a cheap low capacity 7.2V infolithium battery for $15 shipped off of ebay.  After cutting the shell open and removing the guts of the battery, I soldered the connectors from the inside of the shell to the respective leads on a normal electrical cable and epoxied it up so that the cable/shell combo is nice and robust to tugs and pulls.  After the cable exits the battery shell, I pigtailed a pair of Tamiya connectors onto which I can hot-swap 7.2V remote control car batteries.  RC batteries are the same voltage as the M or L sized Sony batteries that the SD recorder uses.  The RC car batteries are infinitely available on ebay (or even at your local Radio Shack) and they're quite a bit cheaper than buying a whole fleet of L or M batteries.  The capacity of RC batteries goes up to something like 5000mah each.  With the hot swapping capability, I can run my 744 all day without turning it off, except perhaps to change out a  CF card.   Since the RC batteries are both cheap and hot swappable with this setup, I really don't consider myself to be limited at all by how how long an individual battery lasts.  The RC batteries can even be recharged from your SD recorder, so you wouldn't even need to buy an RC battery charger.

[page]

I now combine the D50 with my USBPre2 when I need high-quality recordings...or even something like Tascam DR-100MKII.

I think this is the best deal out there -- the USBPre2 & the Tascam DR-100MKII, digital in -- if you don't mind two boxes.

The one big difference in terms of usability is the meters are better on the pre2, but the gain knobs are not ganged like they can be on the 7 series.

I have a large color touch screen on my hs-p82 and it would be hard for me to give that up

different strokes for different folks; I'd totally give up that screen in a heartbeat and I have nimble fingers. Something about when I use it stuff doesn't want to register or I have trouble getting the backspace button to work.

The bummer with the SD menus were that there were 70+ sub menus and they only displayed like 3 at a time so as you're scrolling you basically need to know what the number you're looking for is.

[H₂O]

I think you need key functions on buttons or knobs - i.e. record, play, stop, marker, FF, RW, trim/gain

The touch screen really shines when setting up the recorder and when performing non-critical functions when recording:
 - setting up the routing
 - naming takes
 - setting input options
 - selecting a track to solo

I would not be a fan of only touchscreen input but it is a very nice to have feature