Topic: Difference between the M1 and D100.

[Depechemode1993]

so people have been telling me there is not difference in performance with the M1 and D100. They are basically the same units am I correct? the only difference I have seen is the weight. I think the M1 is like 10 oz. and the D100 is 12 oz. maybe someone can help a brotha out. I am going to get one from pro dig. soon.

[BobW]

SCMS and color 
PCM-M1 wins, black and SCMS-free
Not much else from what I've been told.
More experienced users here may have more for you.

[ShawnF]

Don't forget the D100 has the little remote.  AFAIK no difference in the sound/quality/reliability except the SCMS, which is probably not an issue for what most of us do.  And they're both black if you use the pleather case   Go for the cheaper of the two, I'd say.

[WiFiJeff]

so people have been telling me there is not difference in performance with the M1 and D100. They are basically the same units am I correct? the only difference I have seen is the weight. I think the M1 is like 10 oz. and the D100 is 12 oz. maybe someone can help a brotha out. I am going to get one from pro dig. soon.

Exact same machines except, as noted by others, for SCMS and color, and the remote that comes with the D100 (but works with the M1 too).  I used them interchangeably for five years until I got my R1.  Same settings on the D100 and M1 for mics gives same results, same battery life, menus, audio out.  I think the manuals are pretty much the same as well (except for SCMS defeating in the M1).

Jeff

[nickgregory]

the remote is key for stealthing...if you are going to be doing any stealthing go with the D100

[Depechemode1993]

what is SCMS? can I buy the remote anywhere else?

[nickgregory]

the remotes used to be able to be bought new for $75...dont believe they sell new anymore....

[BobW]

what is SCMS? can I buy the remote anywhere else?

Question 1)
Once upon a time, in a galaxy, far, far away ........
the powers that be (Sony?) wanted copyright management.
Basically so CDs couldn't be copied (HAH!!!!)
SCMS was a way of bit-robbing for protection allowing only one copy to be made before an error would be declared.
Modern soundcards ignore, defeat, or pass SCMS, effectively defeating it.

The only concern, if there be one, is that the robbed bits might affect sound quality.
In short, they do not in any practical sense. 

Question 2)
Ebay or the Yardsale on TS.com, or Oade Board, and such places where depraved recordists hang.

Good luck !

[nickgregory]

good luck finding the remote there...the only reason I got any $$ for my D100 as dat decks are getting towards the bottom of the chain in terms of dollars they can get on the used market is because of that remote

[Depechemode1993]

so SCMS won't do anything to my tapes? all it is is piracy blocking?

[Depechemode1993]

i always preferred the m1, black is sexy

black is also stealthy! 

+T to all. thanks for the help.

pro dig. is about to love me with all the $$ I am going to spend.

[goose]

The biggest difference to me, besides the remote control being included with the D100, is the fact that the D100 is considered a consumer machine (follows SCMS) by Sony, and is therefore eligible for the flat rate service fee, which is less than $200 for any problem whatsoever.  The M1 is considered a professional machine (SCMS switchable) and can NOT be serviced under the flat rate agreement; you may pay $400 for new heads for example.   Caveat: This is what I have been told, I have not used the Sony service for either machine.

[WiFiJeff]

The biggest difference to me, besides the remote control being included with the D100, is the fact that the D100 is considered a consumer machine (follows SCMS) by Sony, and is therefore eligible for the flat rate service fee, which is less than $200 for any problem whatsoever.  The M1 is considered a professional machine (SCMS switchable) and can NOT be serviced under the flat rate agreement; you may pay $400 for new heads for example.   Caveat: This is what I have been told, I have not used the Sony service for either machine.

Prodigital has serviced my M1 and D100, same prices and same parts.  Does Sony service these machines anymore at all?  Though I haven't had to replace heads, there is a plastic gear on the transport that cracks after a while and needs to be replaced, never runs $200 even with cleaning and alignment.

Jeff

[udovdh]

Never runs $200!?
Tell that to Sony Netherlands.
They don't recognsie their own M1 as a 'pro' item.
They are unable to bring teh item to the 'pro' repair department themselves (next door!!).
They want to charge more than 300 euro's (!) for that very repair.

(sent it to american digital..)

[Ray76]

so people have been telling me there is not difference in performance with the M1 and D100. They are basically the same units am I correct? the only difference I have seen is the weight. I think the M1 is like 10 oz. and the D100 is 12 oz. maybe someone can help a brotha out. I am going to get one from pro dig. soon.

I dont know what you are using it for, but since DAT is a dying animal, why dont you get something like the jb3 or r1 etc??HD and solid state/dsd recorders are the way to go now.

Ray

[WiFiJeff]

Never runs $200!?
Tell that to Sony Netherlands.
They don't recognsie their own M1 as a 'pro' item.
They are unable to bring teh item to the 'pro' repair department themselves (next door!!).
They want to charge more than 300 euro's (!) for that very repair.

(sent it to american digital..)

Never ran me over $200 at Pro-Digital, and once was even covered by the "five-year service contract" that was sold with one of the machines I had, that cost me nothing!  (I think the contract was about $100 at time of purchase, the only time I know that one of those things paid off).

Jeff

[scb]

the m1/d100 is still smaller than a jb3 and r1...

[Ray76]

the m1/d100 is still smaller than a jb3 and r1...

I see.

I had no idee.

+T for the heads up man.

Ray

[Stumptown Matt]

D100 has a metal body the M1 is plastic I think.  SCMS or some other copyright protection is legally required for all consumer grade digital audio recording devices.  If it is computer based then the law does not apply (for now).

[Brian Skalinder]

skalinder ran and may still run one with his stealth rig and we all know he loves the jb3 like bean loves akgs.

Yup, still do run a D100 (love the remote), though I don't stealth as much as I should.  And I do love the JB3, it's true - digi-in.  Not a huge fan analog-in, but if it works for others...more power to 'em.  Can't wait to see some of the HD / CF recorders coming out in the next year...woohoo!

[Depechemode1993]

holy crap are you serious the M1 is smaller than the R1? can I have some comparison shots?

[Brian Skalinder]

holy crap are you serious the M1 is smaller than the R1? can I have some comparison shots?

If it helps:  R1 / SBM-1 / D8 comparison shots.

[Depechemode1993]

holy crap are you serious the M1 is smaller than the R1? can I have some comparison shots?

i don't have an r1, but you had a d8, the m1/d100 is a bit smaller than that, and lighter.  the m1 is basically the same size as a standard cassette walkman(if you're old enough to remember those!). 

I don't remember the walkmans. But the comparison shots really showed me! its so hard to get into a show crotching the D8 all the time. Thank god I am getting an M1. it will be ALOT easier!

+T's 

[gewwang]

I don't remember the walkmans. But the comparison shots really showed me! its so hard to get into a show crotching the D8 all the time. Thank god I am getting an M1. it will be ALOT easier!

+T's 

For stealthing, the m1/d100 only has two big advantages over the r1, remote and backlight. The size difference is not that much and actually the r1 is much lighter (~ 8 oz) plus no metal - gotten thru wands 3 times with it. I'm dependent on the d100 remote for many but not all of the shows I do. But for many occasions where security isn't a problem I will be using the r1 for the 24/44 capability and no need to use tapes.

[Depechemode1993]

I just recieved in the mail today my refurbed M1 and some DPA 4061's. the M1 and DPA's are crazy small! I am so ready to go and tape!

[Ray76]

I just recieved in the mail today my refurbed M1 and some DPA 4061's. the M1 and DPA's are crazy small! I am so ready to go and tape!

damn lucky feller!

when I was 16 I didnt have shit.

+T for having such pricey things at such an age.

Ray

[Depechemode1993]

I just recieved in the mail today my refurbed M1 and some DPA 4061's. the M1 and DPA's are crazy small! I am so ready to go and tape!

damn lucky feller!

when I was 16 I didnt have shit.

+T for having such pricey things at such an age.

Ray

Ray,
 
  thanks dood. +T Backatcha 
Having a job makes things like this sooo worth it! 

[Josephine]

Congratulations, Ryan.
Go get 'em !!

[Steelcorner27]

is it not true that the d100 has a magnesium body while the m1 is alum. aloy

[KingReptile]

I just recieved in the mail today my refurbed M1 and some DPA 4061's. the M1 and DPA's are crazy small! I am so ready to go and tape!

Enjoy the goodies man I wish i woulda had your equipment when i was 16 ..The shows i could have right now ...What are powering the mics with ?? That MMA 6000 is a smokin pre 450 bucks but well worth it..You can clip those mics with that pre all night long...Good luck!!!! +t to ya , for having the balls at your age..Those 4061's are sick 

[Depechemode1993]

I just recieved in the mail today my refurbed M1 and some DPA 4061's. the M1 and DPA's are crazy small! I am so ready to go and tape!

Enjoy the goodies man I wish i woulda had your equipment when i was 16 ..The shows i could have right now ...What are powering the mics with ?? That MMA 6000 is a smokin pre 450 bucks but well worth it..You can clip those mics with that pre all night long...Good luck!!!! +t to ya , for having the balls at your age..Those 4061's are sick 

I am so excited to have some nice mics. I have been running the ECM-717 for about 3 years now. as much as I love the 717 the 4061's are so small and stealthy. I am powering it with the batt. box that came with it. I still haven't tried it out yet. as I was supposed to see Head Automatica last night in Detroit but we got there way late (my sister is very slow getting ready) and it sold out. so I have to wait a few weeks until the next concert. +T backatcha. 

[tdg455]

I remember reading something on datheads once about some internal mechanical differences between the d100 and M1. Sorry I dont remember exactly what it was, but had to do with different style fastener holding a capstan or something in the tape path in place. Really a minor difference.

Tom

[nickgregory]

So,... that little remote thing is pretty cool, ehh? (now that I finally have my hands on one).

absolute beauty when it comes to stealthing moke

[nickgregory]

+T to you...what I did when I had it, I put the deck in my pouch, went to the bathroom a few minutes before show time, put it in record/pause mode, then you can get it out of pause by hitting play I think it was on the remote.  The other thing, play with it and get used to where the meters need to be on it for quality levels...once you do, you will never want to stealth any way again...

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

+T to you...what I did when I had it, I put the deck in my pouch, went to the bathroom a few minutes before show time, put it in record/pause mode, then you can get it out of pause by hitting play I think it was on the remote.  The other thing, play with it and get used to where the meters need to be on it for quality levels...once you do, you will never want to stealth any way again...

Or just learn where play and record  are on your deck... I don't get how/why the remote would make that any easier, it's just more to get in.

[nickgregory]

the remote makes it so you dont have to pull your deck out to look at levels...huge benefit for true stealthing situations

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

the remote makes it so you dont have to pull your deck out to look at levels...huge benefit for true stealthing situations

I wasn't aware they had a remote with levels, I have a 7-pin remote, but it doesn't have any levels meters.  The one pictured with the D100 is totally different AND smaller.  It's in a box 170 miles away, or I'd bust out the part #.

[nickgregory]

yeah, thats the one...has levels on the lcd...and the lcd is about the size of a quarter

[gewwang]

any tips on using it?
i.e.,... are you running the deck in a pouch, and just have the remote exposed, etc.?

I run with the d100 in my front pocket and the remote clipped to the bottom of a button down shirt with the face on the inside part. When I'm ready to start the deck, just reach into my pocket, disengage hold and put into rec mode. Then flip the shirt up and shine my keychain flashlight on the remote when the music's peaking. And of course, keep the back switches of the d100 taped down and a piece of tape on the input level so it doesn't accidently get bumped in my pocket.

In venues I'm comfortable with, I'll run the deck with the sbm in a fanny pack.

[gewwang]

The M1 will still get used until all this hysteria with recording devices finally settles, and the deck of choice floats to the top.

The sonosax claims to have a remote with it. It will most likely be the one to replace my d100 for uncomfortable stealth situations.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

yeah, thats the one...has levels on the lcd...and the lcd is about the size of a quarter

The one I have has no display and is a little wider than a DAT tape case and slightly thinner.

[Depechemode1993]

does anyone have a remote they are willing to part with?

[macdaddy]

problem with the hold trick and the remote is that if you wait too long, the deck shuts off, and now the hold is on the machine, and you're hosed...

i like to start the thing by braille(sp) and then hit hold. i use the remote to check levels only - and i have the other hand working the knob on the sbm1, which is how i set levels...

actually, since i am paranoid about misloads...

i hit play by braille > check levels/load + pause with the remote > record + play + hold  by braille > check levels at peaks by remote + set levels accordingly at the sbm1...

[shaggy]

The other problem with the remote besides it not holdng the rec/pause for more than 2-3 minutes is it is not backlit.  As convienent as they are to check levels without fiddling around with the fanny pack and dropping your head, you still need to light that thing up.  I have been using a Photon Freedom where you can lock in the light at a very very dim setting....it is a bit tricky to hold it in between your fingers and have the remote in your hand but once you have the dexterity thing going and dial it all in, it is awesome.  I think you can still get these things at Yodobashi Camera in Shinjuku...I will look when I go shopping this weekend.

[udovdh]

the remote makes it so you dont have to pull your deck out to look at levels...huge benefit for true stealthing situations

I wasn't aware they had a remote with levels, I have a 7-pin remote, but it doesn't have any levels meters.  The one pictured with the D100 is totally different AND smaller.  It's in a box 170 miles away, or I'd bust out the part #.

You have an RMT-D7 I guess?

[nickgregory]

you still need to light that thing up.

not necessarily....with big arena shows, you can get used to seeing the levels when the lights off the stage are brighter....dont necessarily need a straight on flashlight to see the unit if you are used to it and know where the levels should be popping...

[John R]

serial copy management system

to add to bob's describtion on page 1