Topic: NJB3 Opt.in wav misreading KHZ, H120 gets it???

[strokinthrees]

Newbie here trying to record optical line in (wav) with NJB3. The NJB3 isn't picking up on the fact
that the signal is a 16bit 48khz wav.  So.... the recorded music is a tad slow sounding.  Using the
same cable (A Sony toslink/mini optical) my iRiver H120 recognizes the signal as 48khz and the
recording sounds normal.  I tried another NJB3 and got the same poor results.
If I can't fix this, at least it works via the iRver H120.  Any ideas on how to fix?
Can anyone with knowledge of these two units give me their opinion on quality loss (if any)
by not being able to use the NJB3 successfully in this situation.   Thanks

[Brian Skalinder]

Huh, that's odd.  What firmware?  I doubt it's a cable issue.  Same ADC source feeding both the JB3 and iRiver?  What ADC?

Try transferring the recorded file to your PC and then change the WAV header to the proper sample rate.  Note:  you *don't* want to actually resample, just change the header.  If it takes more than a very brief time to change the WAV header sample rate, then you're actually resampling - which is not what you want to do.

[strokinthrees]

Using the latest firmware on the NJB3. The source is from a hard drive dvr fed through a
Harman/Kardon avr520 using its optical out.
I have already transfered some songs to the computer but am unsure how to do
what you suggested to change the KHZ.

[Roving Sign]

Strange indeed...the JB3 should - and all mine do - recognize the sampling rate and display such...

perhaps something odd happening in the HK piece? That signal chain is a bit unsual - compared to how most of us are using it...

I dont think there is any loss - but as brian said you need to change the header - which basically tells the computer "hey play these samples at XXkhz" -

In SoundForge 7 (with a file open) - File > Properties > "Format" tab

[TODDOW]

Perhaps you don't have "optical line in" selected? 
record audio > optical in; then, monitor recording > select WAV. 
Could it be that simple?
 

[dklein]

You need to have the optical signal active before putting the JB3 into record mode.  If you start up the JB3 without a live optical signal, it defaults to 44.1 and won't change.  Not to worry though - all of your bits are still being recorded.  The resulting wave file simply has the wrong sample rate in the header and it will playback at the wrong speed.  Change the header and you have a pristine 48k file.

[Brian Skalinder]

In SoundForge 7 (with a file open) - File > Properties > "Format" tab

And if you're not using SoundForge, check your app's help file.  And if that doesn't do it, let us know which s/w you're using and I bet it's likely someone here will know how to do it.

[strokinthrees]

Thanks to all for your assistance and suggestions...........I thought maybe the trick of playing the
source music first, before initiating the record function would solve the problem, but no, it does not.
The iRiver H120 forces you to do this (I think) or it will not start the recording. Note that sampling
rate is non-selectable on the iRiver as it must decide for itself, and, again the H120 gets it right, but
the NJB3 just can't get there and continues to record at 44.1 optical wav.

Many of you will shudder at this but I do not have software that edits sound.  The software
suggested looks terrific but a tad expensive for my budget right now.
Does anyone know if total recorder (pro ed.) will allow the edit of the header file?
Is there a volunteer with both cable internet, and adequate software willing to allow me to
email you a wav file recorded with my NJB3 with the incorrect (44.1) KHz so you can change
it to the correct 48KHZ and send it back to me so I'll know this solution will definately work
before I purchase such software?

Other thoughts on why the NJB3 won't work as it should?  In my readings, before I posted,
there was dialogue about the signal having to have the proper information (about the sampling
rate, etc.) before the NJB3 would recognize it.  Perhaps the iRiver is a tad more sophisticated
in this regard. 
Again, thanks to all for your help. I have an early work schedule so I will be getting some zzzzzz'sss  soon.

[Brian Skalinder]

Is there a volunteer with both cable internet, and adequate software willing to allow me to
email you a wav file recorded with my NJB3 with the incorrect (44.1) KHz so you can change
it to the correct 48KHZ and send it back to me so I'll know this solution will definately work
before I purchase such software?

Soundforge is just one example of s/w that will perform the function required.  Freeware Audacity should also do the trick, as well as a range of other free or inexpensive audio editing s/w.

[TODDOW]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought it was a bad thing to try to use software too increase the kHz such as 32 > 44.1, or 44.1 > 48kHz.  Although to use software going from 48 > 44.1, or 96 > 48kHz would be ok, since you are not bridging any gaps in kHz.  Is this line of thinking incorrect?  Isn't this as important as keeping your recording "bit perfect?"

Cornfused,
M.P.

[Roving Sign]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought it was a bad thing to try to use software too increase the kHz such as 32 > 44.1, or 44.1 > 48kHz.  Although to use software going from 48 > 44.1, or 96 > 48kHz would be ok, since you are not bridging any gaps in kHz.  Is this line of thinking incorrect?  Isn't this as important as keeping your recording "bit perfect?"

Cornfused,
M.P.

...just the file header is changing...the samples are the same. There is nothing being done to the samples. They header just tells what clock speed to use...

This isnt about resampling...

[Roving Sign]

Thanks to all for your assistance and suggestions...........I thought maybe the trick of playing the
source music first, before initiating the record function would solve the problem, but no, it does not.
The iRiver H120 forces you to do this (I think) or it will not start the recording. Note that sampling
rate is non-selectable on the iRiver as it must decide for itself, and, again the H120 gets it right, but
the NJB3 just can't get there and continues to record at 44.1 optical wav.

Many of you will shudder at this but I do not have software that edits sound.  The software
suggested looks terrific but a tad expensive for my budget right now.
Does anyone know if total recorder (pro ed.) will allow the edit of the header file?
Is there a volunteer with both cable internet, and adequate software willing to allow me to
email you a wav file recorded with my NJB3 with the incorrect (44.1) KHz so you can change
it to the correct 48KHZ and send it back to me so I'll know this solution will definately work
before I purchase such software?

Other thoughts on why the NJB3 won't work as it should?  In my readings, before I posted,
there was dialogue about the signal having to have the proper information (about the sampling
rate, etc.) before the NJB3 would recognize it.  Perhaps the iRiver is a tad more sophisticated
in this regard. 
Again, thanks to all for your help. I have an early work schedule so I will be getting some zzzzzz'sss  soon.

Dude...You CAN do it!!!!

Get the Audacity program Brian mentioned and get back to us here...it's FREE - dont be fooled by the price.

I still wonder if there is something odd happening in that HK AV unit...is the source (dvr) material recorded at 48khz? Is the AV receiver resampling on the fly?  Maybe try it with all the surround stuff disabled?

[Roving Sign]

Here's a screen shot of what you want to do in Audacity...

[strokinthrees]

TAAADAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Many thanks to deklein, Brian, Rovin Sign (esp. for the screen shot) et.al
Yep, pristine 48KHZ sound as promised.

At least I have a cure.  The sounds are stored on my dvr.  Perhaps my H/K is doing a poor job
of presenting the sounds to the recorders, but the iRiver sniffs it out as 48KHZ.  When I get
some time, I'll try some direct feed into the NJB3, skipping the dvr and the H/K and see if
the jukebox will recognize the proper signal. I guess if it does, then I'll try the dvr direct to
the jukebox, or do this first. If good this way, then the finger will point to the H/K (I believe
all the surround stuff is already off).  So I will get back and let ya know.
Is it my imagination or does the Njb3 file (after fixing it) sound better than the iRiver recorded
file, or is it just in the playback, or is it just because the NJB3 is still my fav? So hard to be
objective.
Also, I guess there is no reason to purchase total recorder now.
Thanks for the savings. Amazing technology, makes me wanna be 37 years younger and know
some of what I know now.