Topic: Which Portable Recording machine ?

[furkin]

Hi all,
I’m a complete newbie to digital / portable recording and want to do some outdoor / wildlife recording - in stereo.

I'm well behind the times now, & know now't about current technology or brands etc, so am hoping someone can point me in the right direction as far as recorders/equipment go.

I’m a disabled pensioner and I'm not 100% certain what I want from a machine, so don't want to spend a fortune - yet. I do know that the machine will need to have mic in sockets, as I want to use separate mic's.  I have no idea what features to look for or what the latest techno-speak means.

Eventually I want to put the recordings onto disc &/or save to PC and have been advised that the quality needs to be better than basic Dictaphones & Voice recorders.

Any ideas please ?

Feel free to put any other information that you think might help for my quest.

thanks for reading.

[John Willett]

Hi all,
I’m a complete newbie to digital / portable recording and want to do some outdoor / wildlife recording - in stereo.

I'm well behind the times now, & know now't about current technology or brands etc, so am hoping someone can point me in the right direction as far as recorders/equipment go.

I’m a disabled pensioner and I'm not 100% certain what I want from a machine, so don't want to spend a fortune - yet. I do know that the machine will need to have mic in sockets, as I want to use separate mic's.  I have no idea what features to look for or what the latest techno-speak means.

Eventually I want to put the recordings onto disc &/or save to PC and have been advised that the quality needs to be better than basic Dictaphones & Voice recorders.

Any ideas please ?

Feel free to put any other information that you think might help for my quest.

thanks for reading.

Hi furkin, welcome to the forum.

What sort of budget do you have?

Portable recorders can go from a little over £100 to £10,000 plus - Mine is around the middle at £5,000.

Do you want a stereo machine or multi-channel?

At the good quality but inexpensive end, I would look at the Fostex FR-2 and Fostex FR-2LE for stereo, or the Tascam DR-680 for multi-channel.

At the professional end, for stereo I would look at the Sound Devices 702 and 722 and the Nagra LB.

For professional multi-tracks I would look at the SD 744T, 788T, AETA 4MinX and the Nagra VI (I have the Nagra VI).

I hope this helps.

[aaronji]

Do you already have mics (or know which ones you want to run)?  The Sony PCM-M10 is inexpensive and has a pretty quiet pre, but only an 1/8" input (meaning that for many mics you would need an extra box to supply phantom power)...

Maybe worth looking at the Marantz PMD661 (which does do phantom) or the Sony PCM-D50 (which does not) at the lower end of the price spectrum too. 

[rastasean]

I think a great all in one unit for you would be the Fostex FR-2LE and we have one in the yard sale right here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145008.0
This unit is known to nature recordists to have very quiet pre-amps, long battery life, and pretty easy to use. The one I own works great for me. One of the nice things about it is that it can run on RC 7.2 volt batteries so you don't need to fill it up with AA batteries.

The m10 is a great recorder but you will then need a pre-amp to power most microphones.

[furkin]

Thanks folks for some great advice.
I hadn't come across the brands suggested, so i'll have a search for details.

BUDGET: 
Low.  As I don't know exactly what I want to do, or what to expect, I had no idea what to expect.
I saw a Stage-Line item at £65, but this was soon dismissed.
Also looked at (on the internet anyway) Teac VR-20 and Sanyo Xacti (ICR-XPS01M).
Since starting I was looking to spend around £100 as a beginners kit - but it looks like i'll need to spend a bit more to get a (half) decent quality.  As I want to record outdoor/wildlife/nature, I suppose my main concern is the quietness of the machine in the background, in case the required input is low.

MIC's:
I don't have any at the moment, but have read up on making my own using the Panasonic MW 61A units.  It now looks like I need to match them with whatever recorder I get.

CHANNELS:
I was expecting to use 2 channel.  I'm hoping to mix other sounds onto it, so although I don't think I need 4 track, I will need to look for a PC prog to do this (more advice please).

If I want to end up with Surround-Sound - would I still start with a stereo kit - and use a PC prog to make it SS or would I need a 4 track ?  sorry if this is sounding too basic, but I expected to learn these things as I go.

cheers all
   

[F.O.Bean]

4 channel if wanting to go SS

[John Willett]

4 channel if wanting to go SS

Yes - in which case I think the Tascam DR-680 is the most affordable option.

[RichT]

If you're looking to make a homebrew solution with WM61A capsules, it's easier to power them with one of the smaller handheld recorders which has a microphone input with 'plug in power'.  The Sony PCM-M10 and PCM-D50 have a reliable 3v output which will power these microphones, although cheaper Tascam, Zoom, Edirol etc handheld recorders will also do the job (or the new Nagra handheld for much more).  Alternatively you can use a 9V battery to power them with larger recorders with XLR inputs or make a regulator circuit to step down from 48V.

All of these recorders will work in stereo and cannot be synced together with other recorders so recording using surround techniques isn't possible, although the Tascam DR-2D will record 4 separate external inputs at a push.

If you're constructing surround mixes in post based on stereo recordings something like Soundfield's upmix software (or hardware) can help: http://www.soundfield.com/products/upm1-plugin.php
 

[furkin]

Thanks again folks,
Just looked at some of the machines recommended here,,,, and,,, wow, some of 'em look great.
Unfortunately, my circumstances won't allow most of 'em.  Of course, that's not to say, once I get into it, that I won’t want to up-grade (hobbies tend to take over once in operation ?!).

Before seeking help, I’d seen a few machines at around £100, so thought I’d push the boat out & look for something at about £140.  I think I need to be strict with myself, & look at an absolute maximum of £200 for everything I’ll need.
I see:
Zoom H2 -         £150
Tascam DR-05   £100
Tascam DR-07   £140
Roland R-05      £170.

Pro’s & con’s of these (or others in the range) appreciated.

4 Channel:
Not at the moment. Stereo will have to suffice.

MIC’s:
I was looking at the Panny WM 61a/b (Linkwitz) method as it seemed very reasonable.  Reading the features, it looks a very cheap way of obtaining decent mic’s.  As usual, any advice on this is welcome.

cheers

[furkin]

Recorders:
Just been looking at:
Sony       M-10
Olympus LS-11.

Initially out of my range, but if either is far far better than the previous list, I expect I could manage it (will have to go without meals for a couple of weeks, but I can stand that )

MIC's:
As to external mic inputs; is it better - generally - to use Line-In or Mic-In ?

[jbell]

If your getting a handheld go with the M10!

[earmonger]

If you know anyone who lives in or travels to the US, you can get the PCM-M10 for $229 (US) in New York City from

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/638090-REG/Sony_PCM_M10_BLACK_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html

That would be your best budget recorder, and I'm not the only one on this board who loves it.

I know they are ridiculously more expensive in Europe. People here have suggested that the Roland R-05 is the best unit for the money in Europe. Search for the threads on it.

[12milluz]

If you know anyone who lives in or travels to the US, you can get the PCM-M10 for $229 (US) in New York City from

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/638090-REG/Sony_PCM_M10_BLACK_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html

That would be your best budget recorder, and I'm not the only one on this board who loves it.

I know they are ridiculously more expensive in Europe. People here have suggested that the Roland R-05 is the best unit for the money in Europe. Search for the threads on it.

Yes and in fact the M10 can usually be found much cheaper than that here in the states.

[furkin]

Thanks guys,

I'm in the U.K. 
The PCM M10 is £280 here - that's a whopping 445 US $ !

I reckon if I could get one for $229 - or £140 - I'd grab it.

We also have a problem importing stuff.  Importing anything over £18 ($29.30) we have to pay our lousy government VAT of 20% of price, for doing bugger all, plus our postal service more money for being kind enough to collect the VAT from us !
This isn't just for Business or New stuff, but also personal & private things.

Before any Brits chime in with "why it's a good idea" please don't - heard it all before & still don't agree - leave me with my opinion.

cheers

[stevetoney]

Thanks guys,

I'm in the U.K. 
The PCM M10 is £280 here - that's a whopping 445 US $ !

I reckon if I could get one for $229 - or £140 - I'd grab it.

We also have a problem importing stuff.  Importing anything over £18 ($29.30) we have to pay our lousy government VAT of 20% of price, for doing bugger all, plus our postal service more money for being kind enough to collect the VAT from us !
This isn't just for Business or New stuff, but also personal & private things.

Before any Brits chime in with "why it's a good idea" please don't - heard it all before & still don't agree - leave me with my opinion.

cheers

Do you know anybody traveling to or from the US?  If so, have them hand carry it back to you.

[furkin]

Do you know anybody traveling to or from the US?  If so, have them hand carry it back to you.

No mate - I wish I did .

Havn't got a lot of time to wait either. I really want to get out before Autumn (Fall) kicks in.

[RichT]

I had my PCM-M10 shipped from the states to the UK. Even with vat, shippping and duty it's much cheaper. It would need to be sent back to the US if it went wrong under warranty though

[rastasean]

Occasionally there are Europeans who sell their equipment in the yard sale, so you may want to post an ISO or review the yard sale posts to see if anything is available for you. The LS-11 model I have read is pretty good but I've never used it. Is is available at your country?

[furkin]

RichT:
That's another thing with importing a single item - warranty returns. Not sure if the initial saving would be worth it.

Rastasean:
I'm not a fan of buying used electronic gear, especially when I'm not sure what it is etc.
Yep – the LS-11 is available here in the UK.  The write-ups that I’ve read seem to make it a great item.  I was rather hoping that you guys had picked it against the M10 as it’s cheaper, & seems – to my very limited mind – to be slightly better.
It looks better too, but I won’t be buying on ‘looks’ ! 

Whatever I buy will be a learning curve. I’ll be learning as much from it as anything else.

ALTERNATIVES:
Do any of these machines come close to the LS-11 & M-10 ?
Zoom H2 -         £150
Tascam DR-05   £100
Tascam DR-07   £140
Roland R-05      £170.

MIC’s: 
I’ll leave the external mic debate until I decide on which machine.

B

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS:
Anything sound wrong with this unknown kit ? Am embarrassed to tell you the price yet !

Handheld SD recorder with stereo and four-capsule omni pickup patterns
Record 44.1/48kHz, 64�320kbps MP3 and 16/24-bit WAV
Four on-board mics with high, low, and auto gain for overload-free recordings
Bass compensation, Chorus, Pitch Shift, Delay, Reverb, MP3 Voice enhance, Vocal cut and Tuning
Inputs for connecting 1/8-inch (3.5mm) mic and line-level audio
Stereo 1/8-inch (3.5mm) headphone output and built-in monitoring speaker
Includes SD card; works with virtually all SD cards up to 16GB
USB jack for mass storage connection to Mac and PC
AC/DC operation on 2 AA batteries (included)
Threaded mounting point for table-top and stand-mounted applications
Record more than 10 hours using fresh alkaline batteries

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[John Willett]

Thanks guys,

I'm in the U.K. 
The PCM M10 is £280 here - that's a whopping 445 US $ !

I reckon if I could get one for $229 - or £140 - I'd grab it.

We also have a problem importing stuff.  Importing anything over £18 ($29.30) we have to pay our lousy government VAT of 20% of price, for doing bugger all, plus our postal service more money for being kind enough to collect the VAT from us !
This isn't just for Business or New stuff, but also personal & private things.

Before any Brits chime in with "why it's a good idea" please don't - heard it all before & still don't agree - leave me with my opinion.

cheers

Do you know anybody travelling to or from the US?  If so, have them hand carry it back to you.

But don't forget that if you need it fixed under guarantee you will have to ship it back to the USA.

[swordfish]

Thanks guys,

I'm in the U.K. 
The PCM M10 is £280 here - that's a whopping 445 US $ !

I reckon if I could get one for $229 - or £140 - I'd grab it.

We also have a problem importing stuff.  Importing anything over £18 ($29.30) we have to pay our lousy government VAT of 20% of price, for doing bugger all, plus our postal service more money for being kind enough to collect the VAT from us !
This isn't just for Business or New stuff, but also personal & private things.

Before any Brits chime in with "why it's a good idea" please don't - heard it all before & still don't agree - leave me with my opinion.

cheers

Do you know anybody travelling to or from the US?  If so, have them hand carry it back to you.

But don't forget that if you need it fixed under guarantee you will have to ship it back to the USA.

That's what happened to my M10 ....its with B&H or Sony or with the extended warrenty company for 3 month now....the warrenty will be expired when it returns to Germany...

[rastasean]

Honestly you should have NO fears buying used equipment from just about anyone on this board. Often times the gear is better taken care of than ourselves. I have bought a good majority of my taping stuff used from people on this board and its in great condition. I can understand the desire to buy new but don't think we beat our equipment up and abuse it.

I doubt you will find too many people who own/use both the ls11 and m10 since they appear to be very comparable machines. Often times people wouldn't have a need to buy hardware that's almost identical, so if it looks good to you, I would suggest getting it and start using it before autumn starts.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

You should seek out the Nature Recordists mailing list on yahoo.

There are ways to do what you want on a budget.

A Sony M10 with some inexpensive high gain mics based on the primo 172 or 173 capsules would be one option.  The primo's are very affordable and are decent.  That model is an omni and it has a lot of built-in gain.

You could go with a less expensive recorder, but they are typically more noisy and would require an external preamp.

[F.O.Bean]

For doing 2 channel work, I would ALWAYS go w/ a Sony M10

[Fried Chicken Boy]

ALTERNATIVES:
Do any of these machines come close to the LS-11 & M-10 ?
Zoom H2 -         £150
Tascam DR-05   £100
Tascam DR-07   £140
Roland R-05      £170.

Out of the alternatives you have listed, I would definitely consider the Roland R-05.  One of the newer contenders in the portable recorder market, it's made by the same company that makes the Edirol R-09HR and R-09 which have both been successfully and extensively field-tested by TS members and others.

pnoman, a member here, did some testing on the R-05 and favorably compared its specs to the Sony M-10 and Edirol R-09HR.  The thread about it is HERE.  Do a forum search and you'll find a bunch of other threads regarding the R-05.

It's also been mentioned by a few European members of this forum that the R-05 is the way to go in light of the M-10's pricetag.

[furkin]

O.K folks,
I've narrowed it down to either:
Roland R-05    - £160
Tascam DR-05 - £100.
for the time being.
I was about to go for Roland, but wondering if it's worth 50% more than the Tascam.

As you know, I don't know anything about the features & terminology, but need to know what makes Roland worth the extra,,,, if indeed anything ?


thanks again

[dogmusic]

O.K folks,
I've narrowed it down to either:
Roland R-05    - £160
Tascam DR-05 - £100.
for the time being.
I was about to go for Roland, but wondering if it's worth 50% more than the Tascam.

As you know, I don't know anything about the features & terminology, but need to know what makes Roland worth the extra,,,, if indeed anything ?


thanks again

I've used the DR05 and I think it's a pretty good unit. I think you'd be happy with it. Put the extra money into external mics and a battery box. You'll be surprised how good things will sound.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

If you were recording rock concerts or music, I'd say the Tascam DR-05 would be fine for you.  However, since you said you will mostly be recording outdoor and nature sources (ie: not as loud as concerts) you might want to take the preamps of the two recorders into consideration.  It's my understanding the preamp on the Roland is much quieter than that of the Tascam.  Quieter preamps will introduce less self-noise (hiss) to your recording, especially noticeable on quieter sources.  Specs for both are on Avisoft HERE.

[furkin]

Thanks guys,
My initial use for this item, is ambient outdoor / wildlife / nature recording, in stereo.
As I want a pretty good separation, I want to use external mic's - set apart.

For the moment, that needs to be my main objective.

I am imagining that lots of time will be quite quiet,,,, maybe the odd owl call, possibly bat sonar, insects etc, so I don't want to record loads of background machine noise/hiss etc.

I also need to take the interface into account – have read that some recorders have bad connections. Snow good buying anything that will only pick up arc’ing, clicking,,,, or nothing at all.

Of course,,,,, the recorder is only the beginning,,,,,,

[dlh]

I've read this thread. Just thought I'd add my .02.
File this away for future reference.
In the Naturerecordists group in Yahoo, the Rode Nt1 is very popular because of its low self-noise (5dB I think).
So two of those paired with an fr2LE would be a great setup.  I know that's out of your price range right now, but just something to keep in mind.
I have an fr2LE that I use with an AT BP4025 for nature stuff and it's pretty impressive, with a self-noise of 14dB. I bet the sound with the Rodes is amazing.

Here's some stuff on the 4025:
http://www.soundsurvey.org.uk/index.php/survey/blog_comments/1081/

Dave

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Yeah but the rode uses electronic EQ to lower the self-noise.  I believe it shifts the noise to a different frequency, but I forget the particulars.  Just don't think you're going to get a freelunch from a cheap mass produced mic.

[dlh]

Yeah but the rode uses electronic EQ to lower the self-noise.  I believe it shifts the noise to a different frequency, but I forget the particulars.  Just don't think you're going to get a freelunch from a cheap mass produced mic.

Thanks, didn't know that.
Dave

[dogmusic]

Thanks guys,
My initial use for this item, is ambient outdoor / wildlife / nature recording, in stereo.
As I want a pretty good separation, I want to use external mic's - set apart.

For the moment, that needs to be my main objective.

I am imagining that lots of time will be quite quiet,,,, maybe the odd owl call, possibly bat sonar, insects etc, so I don't want to record loads of background machine noise/hiss etc.

I also need to take the interface into account – have read that some recorders have bad connections. Snow good buying anything that will only pick up arc’ing, clicking,,,, or nothing at all.

Of course,,,,, the recorder is only the beginning,,,,,,

Not sure how far out in the country you'll be situated, but my experience has been lately that there is so much ambient white noise in the environment, that you'd be hard put to tell what was mic-recorder noise and what is just in the air.

Any chance you are close to a store where you can try out the recorders?

[furkin]

Thanks all for your help & advice.  It's well appreciated.

As I'm not 100% certain of what I'm doing,,,, or even if it will just be a flash in the pan,,,, I have to start somewhere, that won't break the bank.

It looks like I'll be going for the Tascam 05. I'll probably order one over the weekend, gives a bit more time for input.    What should come in the box (size/type of SD etc) ?   Where do you guys in the UK buy this sort of stuff ?

I'll be treating this as a learning curve, and if I get into it, or want to take it further, then i'll have a bit of experience to call on.

For the time being, I'll try it with its internal mic's & see how I get on.

Cheers

F

[dogmusic]

Thanks all for your help & advice.  It's well appreciated.

As I'm not 100% certain of what I'm doing,,,, or even if it will just be a flash in the pan,,,, I have to start somewhere, that won't break the bank.

It looks like I'll be going for the Tascam 05. I'll probably order one over the weekend, gives a bit more time for input.    What should come in the box (size/type of SD etc) ?   Where do you guys in the UK buy this sort of stuff ?

I'll be treating this as a learning curve, and if I get into it, or want to take it further, then i'll have a bit of experience to call on.

For the time being, I'll try it with its internal mic's & see how I get on.

Cheers

F

Sounds like a good choice. I think you'll really enjoy it and be quite happy with your recordings.

Perhaps Amazon UK might be a good way to purchase online (£73.32):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tascam-DR-05-Solid-State-Recorder/dp/B004OA6JW0

The unit comes with a 2 GB micro SD memory card, and you can get larger ones very cheaply on eBay.

Here's a link to the owner's manual:

http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/558/e_dr-05_om_va.pdf

Good luck!

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Cool.  Keep us posted on how it goes for you, furkin. 

[furkin]

oh well,,, done it.

Ordered the Tascam DR-05 from Amazon.

Also ordered a 16gb Micro-SD from Play @ £14.99.  May not be the cheapest, but s'posed to be Class 10.

Am hoping to record the sea shore - hence stereo.   I want to try catching:
1/  each end of a small wave/ripple
2/  'follow' one along the beach,,,,,, from mic to mic (speaker to speaker) type of thing. (Taboo by Arthur Lyman was great for this - way back in the 50's !?)

Can't add more until I see how separate the mics record.

thanks again

F

[dogmusic]

Am hoping to record the sea shore - hence stereo.   I want to try catching:
1/  each end of a small wave/ripple
2/  'follow' one along the beach,,,,,, from mic to mic (speaker to speaker) type of thing. (Taboo by Arthur Lyman was great for this - way back in the 50's !?)

Record at FORMAT: WAV 24 bit and SAMPLE: 96k [page 43 & 44 of the manual]  and leave the record input level at zero [page 48].

Besides getting the best possible quality, by recording at 24/96, you can raise the track levels later (in a computer program if you wish) without raising the noise level.

The DR05's record input level only changes the input digitally, which you'd be better off doing later (if necessary).

Change the input level of your waves recording by changing your distance from the source. (Careful not to get it wet!)

[furkin]

Thanks for the figures DM.  Have copied them for future use.

Am quite looking forward to it now.

F

[furkin]

The machine arrived a couple of days ago, so am - slowly - getting used to it around the home.   
There's a lot to take in as a complete newbie to Digital Recording.

The new Micro SD arrived today.  I was about to format it, but note that the DR-05's 2gb one is formatted to FAT.   Will the 05 only run as FAT ?  The rest of my gear runs on the better NTFS, as do my other SD cards & USB sticks. 

cheers

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Put the SD card in the DR-05 and have the recorder format it.  You should always format the card by way of the recorder, not in your computer.  If the recorder wants to format to FAT (as opposed to FAT32 or NTFS), allow it to and don't mess with it.  You are less likely to have issues with it (reading, writing, etc), which could result in it not working properly when you need it to.

Regarding the bit depth and sample rate you choose to record to, the aforementioned 24-bit is good as it will allow you to raise levels in post without raising noise too much.  However, the 96kHz is overkill, personally speaking and IMHO.  48kHz (DVD-quality) or 44.1 (CD-quality) should be plenty good enough for your purposes.  Unless you're planning to sync the audio you capture to hi-def video or critically listen to it on the most revealing of playback systems, stick with the lower resolutions and you'll get more recording time on your SD card.  Your ears probably can't tell the difference either. 

[hi and lo]

Put the SD card in the DR-05 and have the recorder format it.  You should always format the card by way of the recorder, not in your computer.

Great advice! Just to add to this, not only should you format only the card in the device with which it will be used, but you should do this everytime you plan to record (assuming you can transfer the old files). It is not a good idea to delete files to free up space; you must format completely for the card to perform as expected.

[moooose]

The machine arrived a couple of days ago, so am - slowly - getting used to it around the home.   

A couple of posts ago you were talking about next step, i. e. building mics based on inexpensive caps.
When you are ready to do that, I suggest you to consider Primo caps instead of Panasonic WM 61, especially if your goal is recording nature sounds. Primo caps are quieter (ca. 14 dB self noise) and better but still inexpensive.

[furkin]

A couple of posts ago you were talking about next step, i. e. building mics based on inexpensive caps.
When you are ready to do that, I suggest you to consider Primo caps instead of Panasonic WM 61, especially if your goal is recording nature sounds. Primo caps are quieter (ca. 14 dB self noise) and better but still inexpensive.

Thanks for the info,
any particular model please ?

[moooose]

The model is EM-172. You can get the caps in UK from FEL (http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/felconnectorsand.html) for £ 10 each.
If you like to listen to a sample, the "mistral" recording on my soundcloud page (http://soundcloud.com/moooose) has been taken with a pair of DIY mics based on those caps. Imho for the price they perform really well.

[furkin]

The model is EM-172.

Many thanks Moooose,

When researching the Panny WM61's, I came across a feature about re-wiring the capsules.

Are there similar tips for the 172's ?

I also read that the 172's are susceptible to overheating from large or prolonged use of soldering irons.  Do you reckon my 25w iron will be suitable ?  I currently use leaded solder (LEDs etc) – is this o.k for this job, or leadless ?

Also, my Tascam has 1 mic input.  I was thinking of getting a 2 x 1 adapter plug (each mic having its own plug & plugging into a ‘Y’ piece) but then started thinking about added interference at each joint here & there.   Would it be better to wire both mics to one plug, or use a 2 to 1 adapter ?

Cheers

Baz

[moooose]

I use a 25 W soldering iron, too - never had any problem by paying usual  attention.

Regarding connectors, personally I would follow the "two mics, one plug" way, because of its reliability. The previous version of my EM 172 was terminated this way - putting some heat shrinking tube over connector and the final part of the cables completed the work and made everything nice and resistant.

Personally I didn't find anything about rewiring or modding....

[furkin]

Personally I didn't find anything about rewiring or modding....

Thanks again Moooose,

Just for your information:

1/
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/sys_test.htm#Mic

“When the cartridge is connected as described by Panasonic it produces fairly high distortion at moderate SPL's and is marginally suitable for serious recording and measurement purposes. The microphone itself is extremely linear, but the built in FET amplifier stage is not configured optimally. 
Fortunately, is it possible to modify the external connection to the FET. This involves some delicate work of cutting a trace on the tiny pcb in back of the cartridge and soldering thin, flexible wires to the standard two hookup points, and making a different connection to the capsule housing. The pcb has a circular ring of copper on its outside, which can be exposed by shaving off a small section of the aluminum roll surround with a sharp blade. Then solder a wire from the copper ring to the hookup point that was originally the positive capsule terminal and make it the new ground wire. The terminal with the cut trace becomes the new active output. You might sacrifice some cartridges while learning the process. It is important not to overheat the cartridge when soldering the wires to it, because it destroys the electret. Also, after wires have been connected, the whole backside should be covered with Silicone II Glue to avoid low frequency roll-off due to a broken air seal which might have been caused by the modification. Heat shrink tubing can be used to attach the capsule to a wooden dowel, or the capsules can be glued into the end of a 1/4 inch ID thin metal pipe. Look at the microph1.gif  page from my notebook for further details.”   

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http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/microph1.gif

I look forward to comments from anyone on this - and whether a similar 'tip' would help the 172's.

[Hypnocracy]

Would it be any easier by using a EM173 instead?

http://www.frogloggers.com/Documents/EM173.pdf?cat=13&en=1

[furkin]

Would it be any easier by using a EM173 instead?

What's the difference please ?

[furkin]

^