Topic: Hi-MD vs. Microtrack

[Arni99]

It is getting to sound like a meeting of Hi-MD zealots.  Oh, it is!!!  LOL     

yesterday I recorded "ten years after" and "canned heat" with my RH1+9V bbox+church cards at line-in level 27.
it was an open-air show.
result is great - no normalization needed as it´s as loud as a commercial CD when played on my stereo .
it needs some high frequency boost in post.

for running MIC-IN on HI-MD recorders there some kind of rule:
when u need to reduce recording level to 10 or below => go for line-in(and set levels to 25-28)+ bbox or your mic-preamp will distort!
you DON´t get the hiss at these high recording levels on HI-MD recorders known from microtrack or even edirol r-09,  as the preamp is top-notch.
also when your peakmeter levels don´t move anymore and remain at -2db to 0dB your micpreamp will distort.

the good thing on the sensitive mic-in is you NEVER need a preamp as you do with the edirol or microtrack when recording silent stuff.


my conclusion using the 4.7k modded church cards compared to high-sensitive standard mics as the unmodded SP-CMC-8 or sennheiser HLSC:
church cards + line-in level 27=> no normalisation needed in post.
high sensitive mics + line-in level 12-15 => recording is not as loud and NEEDS normalization.

[gewwang]

I've been using the Edirol R1 (2005-06) and R-09 (2006-present) though primarily with mics>ext pre>recorder with great results for 2 years now as have many stealthers I know and many of us tried both the R1 and the MT and stuck with the R1/R-09 when using the ADC of the recorder. However, a friend and I recently ran AT831>R-09 using the R-09 to power the mics with great results last month for a Damien Rice show from the 3rd row roughly 10 ft. from the PA stack (which got fairly loud). I will try to post a sample later this weekend.

[libfab]

I used to tape with Hi-Md and now am using an R-09 instead most of the time for orchestral recordings. I've had ample time to make comps for myself and what I found is coherent with most of the posts here : the Hi-Md has less hiss, yet clips with loud input and its machinery, even made by Sony, is way more fragile than modern flash card recorders--just for this simple reason nothing rotates in them. Actually I broke the standard Md I had before just taking a disk out of the box without caution.
There's one point that wasn't mentioned in this thread: in stealth conditions, your mic may happen to be not too far from the Hi-Md box. Then you'll hear an unpleasant rumble in post, it's just the rotating motor (the users' book mentions that). This ruined a couple of recordings of mine, so I now use the Hi-Md in rare non-stealth, low-input cases.
Also, keep in mind 24 bits IS a step forward in your audio experience, no matter what they say. (Check this site http://24bit/turtleside.com among others). It's just you need to spend more cash on your stereo and start a war with your neighbours: 24-bit DVD disks are best when listened to LOUD. If you don't have a DVD-A player, just use DVD-V like many tapers on this site--you'll make the most of your MT this way.

[Arni99]

HI-MD will NEVER distort IF you use correct mics and record on line input with battery box.
Mics might distort but this will happen on any recorder and has nothing to do with HI-MD.
Also the issue with picking up noise from the rotating MD will only happen when using a T-Mic...no experienced taper uses T-mics anyway .

[yousef]

My old (non-Hi) MD used to pick up the whizzing of the machinery at very quiet shows and I've never used one of those T-mics...

Not sure it this was a standard arrangement, but my machine seemed to write first to a buffer and then commit to disc once every couple of minutes. So sure enough, once every couple of minutes at quiet gigs: "wheeeeee" as the mechanics swing into gear... Not sure if I would have noticed it if I wasn't aware of it already but it's definitely there.

In my experience, the fewer moving parts the better - in terms of both noise and longevity of equipment.

[libfab]

Well Arnie99, I didn't use a T-mic more than yousef--it was an ECM907 at the time then an AT. I was saying that in stealth conditions you may happen to have your box not far enough from your mic to avoid the rumble or "wheeeee" as yousef said, which I also got a couple of times. This said, you'll be able to avoid the issue if you have a mic cable that is long enough...then you'd better have a good cable to avoid extra hiss too. The bottom line is that the whole cost of a really good Hi-Md rig (batt box + good mics + good long cables) may very well tip the balance towards another type of gear.

[Arni99]

Well Arnie99, I didn't use a T-mic more than yousef--it was an ECM907 at the time then an AT. I was saying that in stealth conditions you may happen to have your box not far enough from your mic to avoid the rumble or "wheeeee" as yousef said, which I also got a couple of times. This said, you'll be able to avoid the issue if you have a mic cable that is long enough...then you'd better have a good cable to avoid extra hiss too. The bottom line is that the whole cost of a really good Hi-Md rig (batt box + good mics + good long cables) may very well tip the balance towards another type of gear.

yes, of course a good mic+bbox+ RH1 may top the price of other gear BUT i think its better to pay a little more and get good results than buying cheaper stuff with noisy results .
i never used a t-mic or similar near to the recorder mics since 1987 when i started taping.
i also used the sony 907 in the past but had no problem with this one because i held it in my hand and my recorder was far away .

[boojum]

I had the whirr problem with my N1 when I first started.  It happened a couple of times and then I moved the mic further from the N1 and the problem stopped.  With the RH1 there is always a good distance as I use a mic stand.  My take on the Hi-MD is that it works.  No need to change it.  If I ever get good enough to warrant, in my own mind, better equipment I will buy it.  But until that time I will keep on with what I have.  I am still learning the art of recording: getting the mics where they will pick up the best sound.  That is tricky and no amount of fancy and/or expensive equipment is going to solve that for me.  I am required to learn how it works.

[yousef]

I am still learning the art of recording: getting the mics where they will pick up the best sound.  That is tricky and no amount of fancy and/or expensive equipment is going to solve that for me.  I am required to learn how it works.

This is common sense, of course, but I think MD brings too many drawbacks/complicating factors into the equation: noise, mechanical parts, media costs, "tape flips"... Not to mention the question of the lifespan of the format - if they don't sell in sufficient numbers to people choosing between them and 20GB+ MP3 players, they'll die the same death that DAT did.

If I was to recommend a recorder for new taper who wanted to learn their trade, I'd point them towards a flash-based system so that they can concentrate on the important things like mic placement and not getting caught.

Hi-MD can certainly work and there are tons of great recordings to bear that out but I think there are far more viable options on the market.

[Arni99]

for me as 100%-stealth-taper-only, low noise recording HI-MD is perfect..no preamp is needed.
i taped 3 shows with my edirol r-09 and sold it.
ok, i don´t need to learn stealthing as i´m doing stealth recordings since the late 80ies, i can concentrate on finding the right mics and i can tell you, it´s a long long (neverending) search HAHA!
 
never had mechanical noise on my md recordings. the ONLY disadvantage for ME is the 1GB PCM-limit.
but with 2 RH1s i solved this problem .
in europe 1 year old RH1s are sold for more than 300€ on ebay....!!!! i got a new one for 286 €.......

so i can record in PCM, do a hotswap after 70-80 minutes...plug the bbox cable to the other recorders line-in....and the result is a great sounding recording.
each of us has it´s own opinion on this topic and this is good .
each of us should get the recorder he thinks is best for his specific situations.
maybe trying out is the best way to learn which gear fits best to someone´s type of shows and recording habits.