Topic: $1,500+ to Burn... Need EXPERIENCED Recommendations... (COMPLETE!!!)

[BayTaynt3d]

I'm a long-time digital video enthusiast whose been paying more and more attention to audio lately. 

Now, I think I'm ready to start taking the plunge into getting some decent audio gear. I'd like to be able to record musical performances with high quality under both "out in the open" and stealth conditions. Right now, all I've got is a Rode VideoMic and a Squid mono omni lav that I use with my GS400 MiniDV cam for run-n-gun guerilla action. However, now I want to upgrade and get some new gear I can use for stand alone audio projects, but maybe also use in combination with my video cam at times too. The idea would be to own some hardware I can use to tape high quality audio on its own, but sometimes jack it right into my cam too. Instead of half-assing my first purchases, I'm willing to try to get it (mostly) right on the first go around (it'll just end up being a waste of money if I don't). My budget is somewhere around $1,500, maybe I'd be willing to go a few hundred more if I have to. I know this may not be enough to "getting it right" with everything I'd like to own, but let's see how close I can get...

Right now, I'm thinking about getting the new M-Audio MicroTrack when it comes out and if the first reviews are positive. That unit seems to have the  potential to be a very flexible and powerful piece of equipment (but still vaporware until the reviews come in). I'm also probably going to have to purchase some sort of XLR adapter/mixer/phantom/preamp (Beachtek, Sign, etc.) for my MiniDV cam because it only has one mini stereo input. The specific adapter will be somewhat dependant on what other gear I buy. Either way, these two purchases will let me record 16-bit 48k WAV (that'll most likely be my normal format of choice) on flash or to MiniDV (or both simulataneously).

So, you figure I'm already down $400 on the M-Audio and $200+ on an XLR adapter for my camcorder. That leaves only $900 bucks left. My next need would be to buy a couple of decent mics with a mic stand I can rig for stereo recording into either device. How much can I get a couple of good mics for? Not necessarily pro, but I'd like some decent mics. Might I still need a preamp/phantom/mixer piece of hardware too even with the M-Audio? On the stealthing front, stealthing is NOT my main focus, so I'm willing to chince a little on that front, maybe I'd just buy another mono squid (to pair with the one I've already got) or something like that to keep the stealthing costs down? Or maybe I'd upgrade to a SP stealth mic with Bat box because that's the minimum standard that'll sound good?

So considering my needs, and my budget, if you guys (and gals) were to start over, start from scratch buying your taping gear, and you wanted to be able to have a solid "out in open" setup, be able to jack into my MiniDV cam at times, and be able to go stealthing for fun from time to time, what type of setup might you recommend? Am I on track with the M-Audio MicroTrack? What two mics would be good but still be afforadable (specific recommendations please)? Cardiods I assume are best? What specific 7' stand might you recommend (brand/models please)? Do you think I'll still need a seperate pre-amp with the m-audio? What lower-budget stealth mics should I get for use with the m-audio?

I'm thinking my final setup might look something like this:
2 solid mono cardiod mics (XLR, phantom?)
A good mic stand that can be rigged for stereo (2 mics)
M-Audio MicroTrack digital recorder
Beachtek DXA-4/6/8 or SignVideo XLR Adapter
Low-end stealth mic (PS or Squid?)
Maybe another preamp/mixer/phantom box? Maybe not needed?
Bunch of cabling

I probably can't do all of that for under $1,500, but I'm really looking for some feedback on the direction I've laid out by people who have real hands-on experience, and this forum seemed like a great place to start. Am I on the right track here? I've read a bunch of threads here already, but I thought this exercise might be fun even for the folks who already own gear because I'm asking if you had to do it all over again, what SPECIFIC equipment by brand and model might you buy or put on your wish list?

I promise to keep everyone informed on my progress and to respond to this thread if you are kind enough to post. Thanks tons in advance...

[BC]

considering the $900 price limit for mics, I would consider:

Shure KSM 137/141
AT 4051
AKG C391/C451/460
MBHO 603 (a little above the $900 range but might be able to find a good deal used)
DPA 4060 (mini omni mics)

Just the tip of the iceberg here, tons of nice mics out there at this price range...

Take care,
Ben

[Ray76]

I HIGHLY reccomend the audio technica 4050. You can grab a pair of them on ebay for 800 in mint condition.

Large Diagram Multiple Pattern Mic. I know you mentioned just cardiod, but these are very versatile, and have produced amazing results for me. Very transparent, solid microphones. I can provide you with samples if youd like. Read that a lot of engineers use them. 
or you could get Studio Projects C4s(sd mic..worth more than the 300 dollar price tag IMHO come with card and omni caps)
and a set of DPA 4060s or 4061s.


Teddy

[bgalizio]

Don't forget to factor in the price of large Compact Flash media for the MicroTrack (assuming you don't have any).

[mmmatt]

an xlr daptor is the same as a preamp.  For whatever reason they use a different name in the video world.  I don't know any who have tested the beachtek pre's yet.  I've looked over the specs and they seemed like they weren't much of a pre.  They screw to the bottom of your cam, but that is no big deal if you are carrying everything else anyways.  I would go with a better pre.  Just make sure whatever pre you buy has an analog out for your camera.  Most do, so no worries.  The micro-tracker is rather unproven as you know but most are assuming that the adc will be pretty poor, so you will want a pre that has BOTH digital out and analog out if at all possible.  To most people here this smells like a UA-5!  That is probably the most widely used pre around here.  They are durable, easy to use, easy to power, and they sound pretty good.  There is lots of info around here on thoes, but just be aware that they need to be modified to work as a stand alone pre.  Many here have done it, and plenty of info here on that as well.  There are also many modified units in circulation.
     If you use the microtracker you will need memory... lots if you are doing 24/96.  1hr @ 24/96 stereo is about 2GB, so 2@ 4GB makes sence if you are recording a single show.  In 16/44.1 you can do about 2hrs per GB (I think).  A 4GB CF card is around $2-250 I think.
     As for mics, I currently run mbho's, Studio Projects c-4's (sd mics with both omni and card caps), and Studio Projects c-1's (card LD mics).  They are all great mics to my ears.  The c-4's are a great place to start and can be had as low as $250 new. The newer c-4s also come with shock mounts and a stereo bar.

new microtracker             400
new CF cards                   500
new c-4's                        300
used digimod ua-5            200
batts                              60
xlr cables                         50
patch cables                    30
stand                             50
bag                               20


that is just over $1600 and is a nice rig for open recording.  Stealth mics are something I know nothing about so you can do a little more research there.  If you don't care too much about 24 bit, you can use a jb3 instead of the microtracker and have 20GB of built-in storage for about $150, but probably not as good for stealth recording.  with that scenario you will save $750 from what I have above and can go with a better pre or mics.

Matt

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Used pairs of KM184s for $900 occasionally come available.

[jhirte]

Find some 460's for cheap, and pick up that Aerco in the yard sale

[Ray76]

there is a Wmod ua5 AND c4s and stand AND stereo bar for 750 bucks in the yard sale..

[Ray76]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=48570.new#new

[OFOTD]

there is a Wmod ua5 AND c4s and stand AND stereo bar for 750 bucks in the yard sale..

Teddy you are the man!  I never read the Yard Sale anymore I just follow your posts.  Need to refer to you as Mr. Yard Sale from now on.  +T


Tainted, 

If I can make a suggestion.  Try looking for a pair of AKG 390's with some actives.  These would satisfy your need for great mics with the ability to run on a stand or to stealth with.  In addition there have been several UA5's in the "BigRay" Yard Sale at really good prices.   Stands always come up for sale used and I know alot of folks have found great deals for stands on ebay as well.    As far as the MicroTracker is concerned, always wait until you have to, to buy CF media.  Prices are always dropping and capacity is always increasing.  Seems like most folks either like MicroDrives or they dislike them.  I have never had a problem with one and I have a couple of them.  They are quite a bit cheaper than CF cards and will work with the MicroTracker.

Good luck to ya +T

[dgodwin]

Sanjay may be still selling his akg 391/393 and active cable setup.  look here  I don't know what he's sold so far, so you'll probably want to pm him. 

[Ray76]

there is a Wmod ua5 AND c4s and stand AND stereo bar for 750 bucks in the yard sale..

Teddy you are the man!  I never read the Yard Sale anymore I just follow your posts.  Need to refer to you as Mr. Yard Sale from now on.  +T


Tainted, 

If I can make a suggestion.  Try looking for a pair of AKG 390's with some actives.  These would satisfy your need for great mics with the ability to run on a stand or to stealth with.  In addition there have been several UA5's in the "BigRay" Yard Sale at really good prices.   Stands always come up for sale used and I know alot of folks have found great deals for stands on ebay as well.    As far as the MicroTracker is concerned, always wait until you have to, to buy CF media.  Prices are always dropping and capacity is always increasing.  Seems like most folks either like MicroDrives or they dislike them.  I have never had a problem with one and I have a couple of them.  They are quite a bit cheaper than CF cards and will work with the MicroTracker.

Good luck to ya +T

its taper eat taper. gotta be quick on the draw round here. 

[Nick's Picks]

i'm going to buck the system a little..

drop your plans for the Maudio recorder...for now.
pick up a Creative Labs nomad jukebox III.  lots of them around ...
maybe $200? 
lots of 16bit recording time available on one of those w/its 20gb disc.  no dicking around with flash for now..and you probably dont care about 24bit audio...so the Maudio is more than you need, imo.

some sort of UA5.  make that a definate on your list.  digimod at the least...w or t mod would rock. (there are various flavors of modified UA5s avaialbe...a warm and a transparent).
somewhere between 2 and 5 hundred depending on what you find.

then the best mics you can afford.  Shit, even an AT stereo mic will make nice recordings.  a big fat Studio Projects LSD2 stereo mic wouldnt suck either.  In fact, it would kick ass...and they run about $800 new.

[Unitmonster]

drop your plans for the Maudio recorder...for now.
pick up a Creative Labs nomad jukebox III.  lots of them around ...
maybe $200? 
lots of 16bit recording time available on one of those w/its 20gb disc.  no dicking around with flash for now..and you probably dont care about 24bit audio...so the Maudio is more than you need, imo.

Agreed. The 400-600 bucks you save by going with a jb3 would yield much better results when invested in mic/pair of mics.

spend 200 on a jb3, 200 on a digimod UA-5, 50 on a decent battery system for the rig and then dump the rest on the best used mics you can find with remaining funds.

[OFOTD]

drop your plans for the Maudio recorder...for now.
pick up a Creative Labs nomad jukebox III.  lots of them around ...
maybe $200? 
lots of 16bit recording time available on one of those w/its 20gb disc.  no dicking around with flash for now..and you probably dont care about 24bit audio...so the Maudio is more than you need, imo.

Agreed. The 400-600 bucks you save by going with a jb3 would yield much better results when invested in mic/pair of mics.

spend 200 on a jb3, 200 on a digimod UA-5, 50 on a decent battery system for the rig and then dump the rest on the best used mics you can find with remaining funds.

Let's take a step back for a second and look at what his needs are.  First I think that if the MAudio pans out like we are all hoping or at least pans out fairly decent then Tainted may be just the perfect fit for the MicroTracker.  It will adapt to damn near any situation or application that Tainted has already stated in his first post.  It will give him the ability to first and foremost audio tape in addition to his camera.  Secondly it fits his quote of "... high quality under both "out in the open" and stealth conditions" and third it leaves room for expansion. 

While I know that the JB3 is very important and used by many a taper here, is it really the best fit in this case?  Alot of us on ts.com look at the MicroTracker and focus only on the 24bit aspect of its features and forget about the other features that are perfect for a new or budget-minded taper.

What is the current price on some 4061"s?  His statement "The idea would be to own some hardware I can use to tape high quality audio on its own, but sometimes jack it right into my cam too" leads me to believe that some 4061's may fit the bill depending on price.  What about an active system of some manufacturer?   

Remember that he is currently using a camera mounted mic and a Squid lavalier mic.

[Nick's Picks]

well...
lets consider his needs, like you say.
does he need to drop $400 + the cost of media?  after all..he's likely not doing 24bit.  so if hes just doing 16bit, whats wrong w/the jb3?

I dont believe the flashtracker will be a good "all in one" HQ box.  I think of it performing like a jb3..only with phantom and funky jacks.  I think putting the dough into mics will serve best.

or maybe even one of the concert mod Marantz boxes...with media and a good pair of mics.  it think that can be had for well under $2k and be a very HQ 16bit solution.
i'm tempted to go that route myself.

[Ray76]

you know what...i bet the guy who asked the questions doesnt even show back up..here we are racking our brains for nothing.!

[OFOTD]

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with the JB3 at all.

Sometimes I think on this site that we get stuck with tunnel vision when we are talking gear (myself certainly included).   While the JB3 is a good piece of gear is it really the best answer for this particular case?  I don't think it is IMHO.  If I were a first-time taper a unit like the Marantz would scare the shit out of me.   The MicroTracker could be "the bomb" or "a bomb" and we won't know until many folks have them in the field.  But on paper it seems to be extremely versitile in terms of size, weight, inputs and outputs.  To compare it to something else would be difficult.  I really believe that (fingers crossed) the MicroTracker will be a taper-in-a-box solution with a set of mics.  Now will it replace my V3? Never.  Will I ever use it for anything other than recording? No   but I do think that alot of others will.  Its amazing how many people I have met in Texas alone who tape inconspicuously/stealth where the promise of this unit affects the way they will tape.   

Regarding the 24bit > 16bit part.  How many tapers will use the 24 bit capabilities?  I think while there is a good amount that will, I think a larger percentage will not and will stick with 16 bit.   Remember we on this site are the hardcore taper geeks.  We only represent a small portion of the taping community at large.   

Alot of times when I see a post by someone who is new it always seems that the first few responses are JB3 and UA5 related.  And those pieces of gear are great, but  aren't there other alternatives and ways of thinking ?

 

[Ray76]

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with the JB3 at all.

Sometimes I think on this site that we get stuck with tunnel vision when we are talking gear (myself certainly included).   While the JB3 is a good piece of gear is it really the best answer for this particular case?  I don't think it is IMHO.  If I were a first-time taper a unit like the Marantz would scare the shit out of me.   The MicroTracker could be "the bomb" or "a bomb" and we won't know until many folks have them in the field.  But on paper it seems to be extremely versitile in terms of size, weight, inputs and outputs.  To compare it to something else would be difficult.  I really believe that (fingers crossed) the MicroTracker will be a taper-in-a-box solution with a set of mics.  Now will it replace my V3? Never.  Will I ever use it for anything other than recording? No   but I do think that alot of others will.  Its amazing how many people I have met in Texas alone who tape inconspicuously/stealth where the promise of this unit affects the way they will tape.   

Regarding the 24bit > 16bit part.  How many tapers will use the 24 bit capabilities?  I think while there is a good amount that will, I think a larger percentage will not and will stick with 16 bit.   Remember we on this site are the hardcore taper geeks.  We only represent a small portion of the taping community at large.   

Alot of times when I see a post by someone who is new it always seems that the first few responses are JB3 and UA5 related.  And those pieces of gear are great, but  aren't there other alternatives and ways of thinking ?

 

no other ways of thinking.
dont buck the system.

youll get negatived if you do , by God.

conform to the mold. Embrace it. 

[Nick's Picks]

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with the JB3 at all.

Sometimes I think on this site that we get stuck with tunnel vision when we are talking gear (myself certainly included). While the JB3 is a good piece of gear is it really the best answer for this particular case? I don't think it is IMHO. If I were a first-time taper a unit like the Marantz would scare the shit out of me. The MicroTracker could be "the bomb" or "a bomb" and we won't know until many folks have them in the field. But on paper it seems to be extremely versitile in terms of size, weight, inputs and outputs. To compare it to something else would be difficult. I really believe that (fingers crossed) the MicroTracker will be a taper-in-a-box solution with a set of mics. Now will it replace my V3? Never. Will I ever use it for anything other than recording? No but I do think that alot of others will. Its amazing how many people I have met in Texas alone who tape inconspicuously/stealth where the promise of this unit affects the way they will tape.

Regarding the 24bit > 16bit part. How many tapers will use the 24 bit capabilities? I think while there is a good amount that will, I think a larger percentage will not and will stick with 16 bit. Remember we on this site are the hardcore taper geeks. We only represent a small portion of the taping community at large.

Alot of times when I see a post by someone who is new it always seems that the first few responses are JB3 and UA5 related. And those pieces of gear are great, but aren't there other alternatives and ways of thinking ?

 

over 10k on this board...a little more than a handful.
and we talk up the ua5>jb3 for a reason.

[OFOTD]

no other ways of thinking.
dont buck the system.

youll get negatived if you do , by God.

conform to the mold. Embrace it. 

you know thats funny.  Before I hit send I looked at my karma points and thought "there they go"    Last time I tried to buck the system I got nailed on karma points.  Maybe this time i'll get some +'s for thinking outside the box a little   

[thegreatgumbino]

over 10k on this board...a little more than a handful.
and we talk up the ua5>jb3 for a reason.

Out of that 10k, how many really take it to the extremes though?  Lots of patchers and supporters around.  I'd be curious to know what percentage of that 10k actually post on a regular basis or are even logged on regularly.

[Ray76]

no other ways of thinking.
dont buck the system.

youll get negatived if you do , by God.

conform to the mold. Embrace it. 

you know thats funny.  Before I hit send I looked at my karma points and thought "there they go"    Last time I tried to buck the system I got nailed on karma points.  Maybe this time i'll get some +'s for thinking outside the box a little   

Buck the system.  to hell with the karma points. Its refreshing to see new perspectives.

[Nick's Picks]

well...posting vs. owning and knowing your rig..and good from bad...useful from not very useful..etc..is another ball game.

any way..
the guy asked the best ways to spend the dough.  i think he was shown that..and given tons of options.
we all know the chain of importance..
and it starts with mics.  then pre/ad..lastly what its writing to.
so why again is the Oade mod marantz not an awesome place to start? 
after all...since when has Doug made or mod'd anything that sucked?
I think that thing is just around $600 new, unmoded.  I bet its under $800 all decked out.  add a 2gb flash card or microdrive..and you can still have a bunch of money for great mics.
C4s..and there'd be change.  buy some concert tickets perhaps?

+T for all the great suggestions and trains of thought.

[Ray76]

well...posting vs. owning and knowing your rig..and good from bad...useful from not very useful..etc..is another ball game.

any way..
the guy asked the best ways to spend the dough.  i think he was shown that..and given tons of options.
we all know the chain of importance..
and it starts with mics.  then pre/ad..lastly what its writing to.
so why again is the Oade mod marantz not an awesome place to start? 
after all...since when has Doug made or mod'd anything that sucked?
I think that thing is just around $600 new, unmoded.  I bet its under $800 all decked out.  add a 2gb flash card or microdrive..and you can still have a bunch of money for great mics.
C4s..and there'd be change.  buy some concert tickets perhaps?

+T for all the great suggestions and trains of thought.

I hope the feller comes back!

[thegreatgumbino]

well...posting vs. owning and knowing your rig..and good from bad...useful from not very useful..etc..is another ball game.

I hear you on that one!  Very true words.  +T to you for all the reviews.

[Nick's Picks]

I hope the feller comes back!

no shit..
i'm sure we scared im away on page 2

[Nick's Picks]

well...posting vs. owning and knowing your rig..and good from bad...useful from not very useful..etc..is another ball game.

I hear you on that one! Very true words. +T to you for all the reviews.

and by all means...I wasnt insinuating that *I* know what i'm talking about.
i've gotten where I am on 90% bullshit.

[OFOTD]

so why again is the Oade mod marantz not an awesome place to start? 
after all...since when has Doug made or mod'd anything that sucked?

Now is the time where I think this thread has gotten out of hand a little bit.  I am not in any way, shape or form trying to disparage any piece of equipment or way of thinking.  I'm just trying to look at this particular situation from a beginner point of view and not an established taper pov.   Like the saying goes "there is more than one way to skin a cat"

The reason I did not suggest or push the Marantz is that I am a believer in the walk before you run theory. As far as 10k users I would as well be interested in seeing some site stats about usage.  What percentage of users here are active posters?  What percentage have <1000k rigs, <2000k+  ??  How many posters with less than 20 posts?

 
+t's for some healthy discussion though.     

[Nick's Picks]

different way of thinking I guess.
I see a single box as a nice turn key place to start for someone starting out.
plug the mics in..hit record and turn the dials until the lights are pretty.
what could be simpler?

you just menitoned that it would scare you...
but i dont understand why.

[OFOTD]

Well I am basing that statement more on the relative size of the units than anything else.  The PMD-660 looks somewhat comparable to the FlashTracker.  The 670 and 671 are just bigger units and do not seem to be as easy to stealth with.  Not that they can't be used to stealth but just not as easy in most situations.

[BayTaynt3d]

Oh, yes... I am back, and I will reply, just like I promised I would in my opening post.  I may be a newbie in THIS forum, but I'm no newbie to forums, and with all of that great feedback, there's not a chance in h3ll that I wouldn't come back and participate.

Now, first of all, I must thank all of you for your suggestions (and enthusiasm!). My plan is to do a ton of homework on this topic (I've already clocked 10+ hours reading/lurking threads in this forum since last week BEFORE I even posted this) and to execute on a plan sometime in the next month or so. I'm NOT in a rush, I want to find the best solution for my needs and within my budget, and I'm perfectly willing to do a ton of research. So, that said, it's going to take me a while to digest what's already been written in this thread, and I'm sure even more will probably get posted considering how hardcore you guys are (SMILE). So, don't think for a minute I'm one of those post-and-dash to never return types. I tracked this forum down because it obviously had people who were knowledgeable and passionate about the subject, so don't worry, I haven't abadoned the thread -- I JUST STARTED IT!!!

Anyway, like I said, I'm going to need time to digest this stuff, but in the meantime, maybe it would help if I expand on my deal. So, yes I am somewhat of a newbie, but I'm not some total idiot. Remember, I'm way into video, and with that comes some audio -- hell my GS400 tapes at 16-bit 48kz. My wife works at a well known conservatory of music here in the Bay Area, which is one of my motivations because I see a ton of great live music by incredibly talented but unknown musicians all of the time (I'm actually thinking about making a doco on something related to this). Just for laughs, I was that guy in middle school and high school who taped the school plays and shit. I'm 36 now, and a total tech and home entertainment junkie. I write financial software for a living (among other things), so I'm basically a huge geek, so tech doesn't scare me (sounds like I'll fit right in around here). I'm a fast learner on this type of thing, and I've spent the past two weeks getting up to speed on the basics -- balanced/non-balanced, polarity, a/d, pre's, formats (16- vs. 24bit, PCM, MP3, blah, blah), stereo, mono, plugs/cables, etc. Now some of this I was already familiar with (XLR, 1/4 TRS, mini, balanced, unbal, etc.), but needed some refreshment, still other areas I obviously need more work (what makes a good mic, when should I use cardioid vs. omni, etc.). Anyway, I'm getting there, and I'm taking it slow and steady but also seriously because I don't want to drop this kind of cash and end up with shit that doesn't fit my needs. That was a long-winded way of saying that I'm probably not your typical newbie, and I'm not going to be scared of some complicated pre/mixer/ad box or whatever. I'm realistic that it might take a while to get up to speed, but I want a good and flexible system that's just shy of pro standards (that sweet spot on price vs. value if you know what I mean), and I want to know how to best use it when doing stand-alone taping, taping that will be mixed/synced with video, and/or stealthing.

So, these suggestions are EXACTLY what I'm looking for (THANK YOU), and I can't believe the thread is already 3 pages long (athough there was some fluff in there  too). I'm a little hesitant to go for the used gear from people I don't know, but it does seem that there is a tight knit core crew here that might vouch for whomever is selling gear, which makes me more likely to go that route. Also, I'm just starting to understand what some of the modded hardware is and why it needs to have a mod, but the whole modding thing makes me cringe a bit (spoken like a true former xbox modder). Although, I understand that might also be a great way to go.

And on one final note, I'm very interested in the MicroTrack for a whole bunch of reasons which have been hammered to death in the part I-III threads, not the least of which is that it can be paired with other high-end gear to go HQ to the max (using it basically as a storage facility only), but it also can be used stand-alone in situations that don't need to be quite as pro, or when paired with some stealth mics for a really small concealable setup. That said, I wouldn't trust that thing at all until I let all of you freaks get a crack at it first in the field... LMAO!!! So, I think I'll be timing my purchases for sometime a few weeks after the first reviews start coming in. If it looks good, I'll probably go that way (with my luck, it'll be instantly backordered), if it doesn't I'll go another route. This timing should work well for me because I'll get to hear the reviews, plus I'll get about a month to keep researching and getting up to speed on the whole package I need.

THANKS A BUNCH FOR RESPONDING!!! BE BACK SOON...

-- Taint

[Ray76]

glad to see you come back!

+T 

[OFOTD]

Welcome back as well!  We all may whine, bitch, groan and tear at each other but we all have the same love of the craft!

Sounds like you are already on your way!

+T

[mmmatt]

This thread is a hoot!  Welcome tainted!  +T

Matt

[Nick's Picks]

we get all excited spending other peoples money.

[John R]

And on one final note, I'm very interested in the MicroTrack for a whole bunch of reasons which have been hammered to death in the part I-III threads...

-- Taint

talk about some threads with fluff   welcome taint, you'll fit right in around here.

[Ray76]

And on one final note, I'm very interested in the MicroTrack for a whole bunch of reasons which have been hammered to death in the part I-III threads...

-- Taint

talk about some threads with fluff   welcome taint, you'll fit right in around here.

[Swanny]

If I were you, I'd get ADK TL > Tmod+ UA-5 > JB3, or the AKG 480's. The + mod will give you better analog outs to run to your camera. If you decide you want to spend more, you can upgrade to a flashtracker or nicer preamp/AD. Spend all you can on the mics they will make the biggest difference in your recordings.

[BayTaynt3d]

I found these four links to be very helpful on the mic/positioning front for a newb like me:

http://www.tape.com/Bartlett_Articles/stereo_microphone_techniques.html

http://www.tape.com/Bartlett_Articles/stereo_recording_procedures.html

http://emusician.com/ar/emusic_sum/

http://www.josephson.com/mic-faq.html

[pfife]

there is a Wmod ua5 AND c4s and stand AND stereo bar for 750 bucks in the yard sale..

Teddy you are the man!  I never read the Yard Sale anymore I just follow your posts.  Need to refer to you as Mr. Yard Sale from now on.  +T


Tainted, 

If I can make a suggestion.  Try looking for a pair of AKG 390's with some actives.  These would satisfy your need for great mics with the ability to run on a stand or to stealth with.  In addition there have been several UA5's in the "BigRay" Yard Sale at really good prices.   Stands always come up for sale used and I know alot of folks have found great deals for stands on ebay as well.    As far as the MicroTracker is concerned, always wait until you have to, to buy CF media.  Prices are always dropping and capacity is always increasing.  Seems like most folks either like MicroDrives or they dislike them.  I have never had a problem with one and I have a couple of them.  They are quite a bit cheaper than CF cards and will work with the MicroTracker.

Good luck to ya +T

its taper eat taper.

Maybe at your kind of party.....

 


Now, for the question:  DPA4061s.

[Ray76]

there is a Wmod ua5 AND c4s and stand AND stereo bar for 750 bucks in the yard sale..

Teddy you are the man!  I never read the Yard Sale anymore I just follow your posts.  Need to refer to you as Mr. Yard Sale from now on.  +T


Tainted, 

If I can make a suggestion.  Try looking for a pair of AKG 390's with some actives.  These would satisfy your need for great mics with the ability to run on a stand or to stealth with.  In addition there have been several UA5's in the "BigRay" Yard Sale at really good prices.   Stands always come up for sale used and I know alot of folks have found great deals for stands on ebay as well.    As far as the MicroTracker is concerned, always wait until you have to, to buy CF media.  Prices are always dropping and capacity is always increasing.  Seems like most folks either like MicroDrives or they dislike them.  I have never had a problem with one and I have a couple of them.  They are quite a bit cheaper than CF cards and will work with the MicroTracker.

Good luck to ya +T

its taper eat taper.

Maybe at your kind of party.....

 


Now, for the question:  DPA4061s.

 

youre the one that listens to bright eyes.

[pfife]

Contrare.... never heard that emo beeotch in my life.... except on the ACL after wilco, that I promptly turned off.   I'm the one who likes DEATH FUCKIN' METAL.

[Ray76]

Contrare.... never heard that emo beeotch in my life.... except on the ACL after wilco, that I promptly turned off.   I'm the one who likes DEATH FUCKIN' METAL.

hehe! I hear you.

[Nick's Picks]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

[pfife]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

I love the Dead too... though I'm not the hugest fan on the planet, but I love their music.   Both records you mention are excellent.

[BayTaynt3d]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

Ha! That is funny... I went from old school punk to hardcore punk (I've actually seen bands like DRI, Black Flag, Husker Du, 7 seconds back in the day) to speed metal (saw Slayer in Rochester; fav album = Decade of Aggression) to alternative to classic rock (got into this after moving to Boulder, CO of couse!) to hip hop (the more poetic stuff, not the mysogynistic crap) to now pretty much everything including classical over the course of my life. I grew up in Ithaca, NY, which is where Pyramid Sound is. They are the low-bug studio that brought us the likes of S.O.D., Anthrax, and a bunch of other heavy/hardcore bands way back in the day. LOL! Anyway, funny to see the death metal comments from a guy who loves the dead now because I fall in some of those camps myself. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Metallica OPENING for Ozzy on the Master of Puppets Tour (when Cliff was still the bassist). They simply blew Ozzy away so bad that the fans almost rioted before Ozzy came out, and it was the only time I've seen a true "opening act" (as opposed to co-headliners) come back out for an encore. Gotta love the metal, but these days I'm a little more mellow when it comes to listening to good music...

[Nick's Picks]

I saw the worcester stop of that tour as well.
S.O.D..what ever happened to Billy Milano?

[Ray76]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

Ha! That is funny... I went from old school punk to hardcore punk (I've actually seen bands like DRI, Black Flag, Husker Du, 7 seconds back in the day) to speed metal (saw Slayer in Rochester; fav album = Decade of Aggression) to alternative to classic rock (got into this after moving to Boulder, CO of couse!) to hip hop (the more poetic stuff, not the mysogynistic crap) to now pretty much everything including classical over the course of my life. I grew up in Ithaca, NY, which is where Pyramid Sound is. They are the low-bug studio that brought us the likes of S.O.D., Anthrax, and a bunch of other heavy/hardcore bands way back in the day. LOL! Anyway, funny to see the death metal comments from a guy who loves the dead now because I fall in some of those camps myself. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Metallica OPENING for Ozzy on the Master of Puppets Tour (when Cliff was still the bassist). They simply blew Ozzy away so bad that the fans almost rioted before Ozzy came out, and it was the only time I've seen a true "opening act" (as opposed to co-headliners) come back out for an encore. Gotta love the metal, but these days I'm a little more mellow when it comes to listening to good music...

some good taste there, Tainted! pretty much echoes what I was into (and still am a bit) before I got heavy into Old/Alt Country

[pfife]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

Ha! That is funny... I went from old school punk to hardcore punk (I've actually seen bands like DRI, Black Flag, Husker Du, 7 seconds back in the day) to speed metal (saw Slayer in Rochester; fav album = Decade of Aggression) to alternative to classic rock (got into this after moving to Boulder, CO of couse!) to hip hop (the more poetic stuff, not the mysogynistic crap) to now pretty much everything including classical over the course of my life. I grew up in Ithaca, NY, which is where Pyramid Sound is. They are the low-bug studio that brought us the likes of S.O.D., Anthrax, and a bunch of other heavy/hardcore bands way back in the day. LOL! Anyway, funny to see the death metal comments from a guy who loves the dead now because I fall in some of those camps myself. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Metallica OPENING for Ozzy on the Master of Puppets Tour (when Cliff was still the bassist). They simply blew Ozzy away so bad that the fans almost rioted before Ozzy came out, and it was the only time I've seen a true "opening act" (as opposed to co-headliners) come back out for an encore. Gotta love the metal, but these days I'm a little more mellow when it comes to listening to good music...

some good taste there, Tainted! pretty much echoes what I was into (and still am a bit) before I got heavy into Old/Alt Country

And before you purchased the whole Kenny G catalog....

[Ray76]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

Ha! That is funny... I went from old school punk to hardcore punk (I've actually seen bands like DRI, Black Flag, Husker Du, 7 seconds back in the day) to speed metal (saw Slayer in Rochester; fav album = Decade of Aggression) to alternative to classic rock (got into this after moving to Boulder, CO of couse!) to hip hop (the more poetic stuff, not the mysogynistic crap) to now pretty much everything including classical over the course of my life. I grew up in Ithaca, NY, which is where Pyramid Sound is. They are the low-bug studio that brought us the likes of S.O.D., Anthrax, and a bunch of other heavy/hardcore bands way back in the day. LOL! Anyway, funny to see the death metal comments from a guy who loves the dead now because I fall in some of those camps myself. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Metallica OPENING for Ozzy on the Master of Puppets Tour (when Cliff was still the bassist). They simply blew Ozzy away so bad that the fans almost rioted before Ozzy came out, and it was the only time I've seen a true "opening act" (as opposed to co-headliners) come back out for an encore. Gotta love the metal, but these days I'm a little more mellow when it comes to listening to good music...

some good taste there, Tainted! pretty much echoes what I was into (and still am a bit) before I got heavy into Old/Alt Country

And before you purchased the whole Kenny G catalog....

You funny fella you.!

on a related note, I do like hall and oats.

Kenny G...reminds me of the norm macdonald nightly news...."On related notes, Kenny G released his Christmas album Today. Happy Birthday Jesus!, Hope you like Crap!!"

[pfife]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

Ha! That is funny... I went from old school punk to hardcore punk (I've actually seen bands like DRI, Black Flag, Husker Du, 7 seconds back in the day) to speed metal (saw Slayer in Rochester; fav album = Decade of Aggression) to alternative to classic rock (got into this after moving to Boulder, CO of couse!) to hip hop (the more poetic stuff, not the mysogynistic crap) to now pretty much everything including classical over the course of my life. I grew up in Ithaca, NY, which is where Pyramid Sound is. They are the low-bug studio that brought us the likes of S.O.D., Anthrax, and a bunch of other heavy/hardcore bands way back in the day. LOL! Anyway, funny to see the death metal comments from a guy who loves the dead now because I fall in some of those camps myself. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Metallica OPENING for Ozzy on the Master of Puppets Tour (when Cliff was still the bassist). They simply blew Ozzy away so bad that the fans almost rioted before Ozzy came out, and it was the only time I've seen a true "opening act" (as opposed to co-headliners) come back out for an encore. Gotta love the metal, but these days I'm a little more mellow when it comes to listening to good music...

some good taste there, Tainted! pretty much echoes what I was into (and still am a bit) before I got heavy into Old/Alt Country

And before you purchased the whole Kenny G catalog....

You funny fella you.!

on a related note, I do like hall and oats.

Kenny G...reminds me of the norm macdonald nightly news...."On related notes, Kenny G released his Christmas album Today. Happy Birthday Jesus!, Hope you like Crap!!"

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

A friend of mine in a local band was supposed to open up for Hall and Oates here in Detroit - Oates ended up getting ill though... so he opened for f'n Avril Lavigne!    She's punk as fuck.

[Ray76]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

Ha! That is funny... I went from old school punk to hardcore punk (I've actually seen bands like DRI, Black Flag, Husker Du, 7 seconds back in the day) to speed metal (saw Slayer in Rochester; fav album = Decade of Aggression) to alternative to classic rock (got into this after moving to Boulder, CO of couse!) to hip hop (the more poetic stuff, not the mysogynistic crap) to now pretty much everything including classical over the course of my life. I grew up in Ithaca, NY, which is where Pyramid Sound is. They are the low-bug studio that brought us the likes of S.O.D., Anthrax, and a bunch of other heavy/hardcore bands way back in the day. LOL! Anyway, funny to see the death metal comments from a guy who loves the dead now because I fall in some of those camps myself. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Metallica OPENING for Ozzy on the Master of Puppets Tour (when Cliff was still the bassist). They simply blew Ozzy away so bad that the fans almost rioted before Ozzy came out, and it was the only time I've seen a true "opening act" (as opposed to co-headliners) come back out for an encore. Gotta love the metal, but these days I'm a little more mellow when it comes to listening to good music...

some good taste there, Tainted! pretty much echoes what I was into (and still am a bit) before I got heavy into Old/Alt Country

And before you purchased the whole Kenny G catalog....

You funny fella you.!

on a related note, I do like hall and oats.

Kenny G...reminds me of the norm macdonald nightly news...."On related notes, Kenny G released his Christmas album Today. Happy Birthday Jesus!, Hope you like Crap!!"

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

A friend of mine in a local band was supposed to open up for Hall and Oates here in Detroit - Oates ended up getting ill though... so he opened for f'n Avril Lavigne!    She's punk as fuck.

She sure is. Wendy O Williams has nothing on her.

[pfife]

She's punker than the Sex Pistols.   OI!

[Ray76]

She's punker than the Sex Pistols.   OI!

fuggin a she is.

on a side note, id love to bang her.if i werent married

[BayTaynt3d]

Any of you guys live in the Bay Area? I'm in SF, just wondering if anyone else lives near me?

Also, what do you guys think about the AT822 or AT825 stereo mics? I know they aren't the "best" mic out there, and I know they are single point with the angle of the internal mics locked down, but it seems like there are a ton of used ones around, they aren't too expensive, they'll convenient, and they've been field-tested for YEARS by loads of different people in different applications and they produce pretty good results. Would I be dumb to go with one as a "starter" mic? Seems like it wouldn't be a bad choice as a starter mic... I mean it's better than a lot of "starter" mics people buy, and it might serve me well for a while before I feel compelled to upgrade... Thought?

[Ray76]

Any of you guys live in the Bay Area? I'm in SF, just wondering if anyone else lives near me?

im across the ocean in germany.

[BC]

Any of you guys live in the Bay Area? I'm in SF, just wondering if anyone else lives near me?

Also, what do you guys think about the AT822 or AT825 stereo mics? I know they aren't the "best" mic out there, and I know they are single point with the angle of the internal mics locked down, but it seems like there are a ton of used ones around, they aren't too expensive, they'll convenient, and they've been field-tested for YEARS by loads of different people in different applications and they produce pretty good results. Would I be dumb to go with one as a "starter" mic? Seems like it wouldn't be a bad choice as a starter mic... I mean it's better than a lot of "starter" mics people buy, and it might serve me well for a while before I feel compelled to upgrade... Thought?

Great idea for a starter mic. I think these sound pretty decent given their low price.

[Chad817]

S.O.D..what ever happened to Billy Milano?

oh man, that brings back some memories.  I remember being about 9 or 10 and listening to speak english or die with my brother.  We felt like such little badasses.

[Ray76]

Any of you guys live in the Bay Area? I'm in SF, just wondering if anyone else lives near me?

Also, what do you guys think about the AT822 or AT825 stereo mics? I know they aren't the "best" mic out there, and I know they are single point with the angle of the internal mics locked down, but it seems like there are a ton of used ones around, they aren't too expensive, they'll convenient, and they've been field-tested for YEARS by loads of different people in different applications and they produce pretty good results. Would I be dumb to go with one as a "starter" mic? Seems like it wouldn't be a bad choice as a starter mic... I mean it's better than a lot of "starter" mics people buy, and it might serve me well for a while before I feel compelled to upgrade... Thought?

Great idea for a starter mic. I think these sound pretty decent given their low price.

the rode nt4 is a great sounding deal too. have a show taped with it that i will put up tommorow..sounds great. MAssive Bass

[BayTaynt3d]

We felt like such little badasses.

No doubt, but for me it was more like 13-14...

[Nick's Picks]

the AT stereo mics are decent...but nothing fancy.
imo, i'd go for one of the better Sony stereo mics first.  more versitile...
most of them are Mid-Side mics (and not XY) that you can "dial in" on the mic itself.
eBay is a great source.
do a search for 'stereo microphone" and you'll find tons. 

[BayTaynt3d]

Any specific sony models you are referring to? I've seen a couple of those where the angle is effectively adjustable between two settings, but a specific model that you know about or have experience with would be really helpful. Thanks!

[Nick's Picks]

I personaly have no experience w/them..but a friend of mine used to fluff the hell out of one model.  just get the most expensive one.

[Unitmonster]

actually, the stuff I've heard from the AT825 has been pretty impressive for a lower-end mic.

[Nick's Picks]

they can clip ...is what i've heard from a few folks. 

[BayTaynt3d]

Honestly, I'm having a hard time thinking the Sony is better, unless I'm thinking of the wrong Sony mic? I've read a ton of posts discussing the AT822/825, and hardly anything on any Sony models. The Sony's look like they have a narrower freq. response, smaller dynamic range, and a lower max SPL rating than the AT or Rode. Am I missing something here? You must be talking about a different model Sony mic? The ability to change the effective stereo angle is cool, but seems like that's not enough to make up for the other things?

Plus, aren't there a ton of recordings on the Net made from the ATs? Not sure if I've seen to many masters mentioning Sony as their mics? I understand that the NT4 is also a pretty decent mic, but is a bit more money and a little heavier. But there certainly a lot of chit chat about the Rode too. If I want to stay somewhere under the $500 range, are there any other mics I should be considering (stereo mics, or mono combos) besides the AT822/825, Rode NT4, and the Sony?

[Ray76]

Honestly, I'm having a hard time thinking the Sony is better, unless I'm thinking of the wrong Sony mic? I've read a ton of posts discussing the AT822/825, and hardly anything on any Sony models. The Sony's look like they have a narrower freq. response, smaller dynamic range, and a lower max SPL rating than the AT or Rode. Am I missing something here? You must be talking about a different model Sony mic? The ability to change the effective stereo angle is cool, but seems like that's not enough to make up for the other things?

Plus, aren't there a ton of recordings on the Net made from the ATs? Not sure if I've seen to many masters mentioning Sony as their mics? I understand that the NT4 is also a pretty decent mic, but is a bit more money and a little heavier. But there certainly a lot of chit chat about the Rode too. If I want to stay somewhere under the $500 range, are there any other mics I should be considering (stereo mics, or mono combos) besides the AT822/825, Rode NT4, and the Sony?

tainted...check out the tape i just mixed with nt4s....its in the kickdowns....its a very good sounding microphone...

[Nick's Picks]

if it were between these you mention, i'd go w/the NT4.
if it were between the sony and AT...id go w/the Sony ...just for difference sake.
i'm hip like that.
;-)

http://www.minidisco.com/ecm-ms957.html
the 907 aint bad either...but not much for bass respoce.

[Chad817]

[hijack]

speaking of s.o.d. earlier in the thread, if any of you guys have comcast, there's a 35 or so minute feature on s.o.d. in the music>concert section on demand.  Some crazy footage from a live show.  I just stumbled upon it today.

[/hijack]

[BayTaynt3d]

I'll have to try to find that SOD VOD footage, interesting that would be on Comcast?

But, back to the project on hand...

So, the NT4 and AT822/825 are two possible single point stereo solutions, but what about getting two mics for more flexibility... Not necessarily talking stealth right now, more quality for reasonable price...

What do you guys think about the C4 mics? How about the NT5 mics?

Also, considering I'm a newb learning at a fast rate, I still feel a little clueless on what "actives" are? I was intrigued by the post about the new NT6 mics that are actives (I think)?

Re: the JB3 vs. MicroTrack debate. It is a tough call b/c I could save a lot of $ by going the JB3 route. But aren't those discontinued and unsupported. But they do do digital at 16-bit with 20 gigs which is nice. However, the MT seems like the route for the future. Flash just keeps getting cheaper, and it looks very stealthable (maybe only the MT and mics needed?). Also, are there outs on the JB3 for monitoring, or can you listen via headphone during recording on the JB3? On the other hand, there are no real-time levels on the JB3 are there? But it looks like the MT will have level-changing during the recording? Plus, do we know what that H/M/L switch does yet do we? Maybe it's padding swtiches?

Next, does anyone have any specific mic stand recommendations?

Thanks, Taint

[Ray76]

I'll have to try to find that SOD VOD footage, interesting that would be on Comcast?

But, back to the project on hand...

So, the NT4 and AT822/825 are two possible single point stereo solutions, but what about getting two mics for more flexibility... Not necessarily talking stealth right now, more quality for reasonable price...

What do you guys think about the C4 mics? How about the NT5 mics?

Also, considering I'm a newb learning at a fast rate, I still feel a little clueless on what "actives" are? I was intrigued by the post about the new NT6 mics that are actives (I think)?

Re: the JB3 vs. MicroTrack debate. It is a tough call b/c I could save a lot of $ by going the JB3 route. But aren't those discontinued and unsupported. But they do do digital at 16-bit with 20 gigs which is nice. However, the MT seems like the route for the future. Flash just keeps getting cheaper, and it looks very stealthable (maybe only the MT and mics needed?). Also, are there outs on the JB3 for monitoring, or can you listen via headphone during recording on the JB3? On the other hand, there are no real-time levels on the JB3 are there? But it looks like the MT will have level-changing during the recording? Plus, do we know what that H/M/L switch does yet do we? Maybe it's padding swtiches?

Next, does anyone have any specific mic stand recommendations?

Thanks, Taint

studio projects c4s---BEST bang for the buck. some vets here still run them, thats how good they are. I still wish I still had mine. I got them the cheapest at bbproaudio.com but yeah, the price is no reflection as to how good these mics are. Actives---active cables allow you to run the microphone capsule without the mic bodies. , lower profile..There are indeed real time levels on the jb3 with the newest firmware(1.40.06) howver, the levels arent accurate at all. to get a good recording, you have to run the levels hot...so many folks here use the SVU-1 or SVU-2(portable level meter) in conjunction with the jb3. the svu2 has a headphone amp, the svu1 doesnt. both work great. jb3 vs microtrack...noone knows how the mt will do in the field...possible bugs, it could be a great thing, or a POS. the jb3 has proven reliable..thats why you see so many folks with them. if i were you , id get a jb3, get a feel for taping, and wait for the folks here to be guinea pigs with the microtrack.  RODE nt5....have no idea...i have heard the rode nt4s a couple times...and they sound pretty good. microtrack does look stealthy, but noone knows if the a>d onboard it will be up to par. so you will see a lot of folks hanging on to their preamps and a>d devices. for 399 bucks or whatever, i dont think many think it will be a miracle as far as being an all-in one box, but instead will prove a good 24 bit capture device. stand....the bogen/manfrottos are proven here...I have the 3336, the basic 12 foot stand, and it has served me well. I also have one of their 13 feet stands..dont know the model number..but they make quality stands, for sure...

teddy

[Ray76]

I'll have to try to find that SOD VOD footage, interesting that would be on Comcast?

But, back to the project on hand...

So, the NT4 and AT822/825 are two possible single point stereo solutions, but what about getting two mics for more flexibility... Not necessarily talking stealth right now, more quality for reasonable price...

What do you guys think about the C4 mics? How about the NT5 mics?

Also, considering I'm a newb learning at a fast rate, I still feel a little clueless on what "actives" are? I was intrigued by the post about the new NT6 mics that are actives (I think)?

Re: the JB3 vs. MicroTrack debate. It is a tough call b/c I could save a lot of $ by going the JB3 route. But aren't those discontinued and unsupported. But they do do digital at 16-bit with 20 gigs which is nice. However, the MT seems like the route for the future. Flash just keeps getting cheaper, and it looks very stealthable (maybe only the MT and mics needed?). Also, are there outs on the JB3 for monitoring, or can you listen via headphone during recording on the JB3? On the other hand, there are no real-time levels on the JB3 are there? But it looks like the MT will have level-changing during the recording? Plus, do we know what that H/M/L switch does yet do we? Maybe it's padding swtiches?

Next, does anyone have any specific mic stand recommendations?

Thanks, Taint

and this guy is selling a pair of c4s, pmod ua5, AND svu2...http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5869

[Ray76]

another ua5(wmod) for sale  + svu-1

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=49459.new#new

if I were you id jump on one man...excellent gear.

[KingReptile]

if it were between these you mention, i'd go w/the NT4.
if it were between the sony and AT...id go w/the Sony ...just for difference sake.
i'm hip like that.
;-)

http://www.minidisco.com/ecm-ms957.html
the 907 aint bad either...but not much for bass respoce.

Nick knows the deal he tests all kinds of equipment..There are plenty of AT fluffers around..I finally figured out why you and Doug Oade are buddies..You both think AT mics suck!!!!

[Nick's Picks]

who, me?
I like AT mics.  I think they are the underdog condenser.  what little i've heard from the 405x's sound great.
I think they are very neutral, and sound nice w/a colored preamp behind them

[Ray76]

who, me?
I like AT mics.  I think they are the underdog condenser.  what little i've heard from the 405x's sound great.
I think they are very neutral, and sound nice w/a colored preamp behind them

4050s do sound great. ill fluff em all day long.

[BayTaynt3d]

Alright, quick update from Tainted's forey into taping gear...

I still haven't actually bought anything yet, but I'm getting close to knowing what I want now. I think my wife is going to kill me because of the amount of time I have been surfing TS and other sites lately.

Anyway, it's starting to look more and more like some variation on this:

AT853 or C4 > UA5 or AD20 > JB3

A few thoughts on my logic here. For starters, I'm a newb, so I should probably stick to the tried and true field-proven gear. Second, I'm on a budget, albeit a decent size budget, but not an unlimited on (i.e., no V3 for me). Lastly, considering the price tag of the MT (probably $600+ after media, taxes, shipping, etc.), the initial feedback on the MT (some bugs to work out, nothing too bad yet, but some issues nonetheless), and the fact that I've come to terms with recording in 16-bit (after all I'm a newb, and 16-bit is the CD standard and is the most I'd probably use when syncing to video).

Given those thoughts (and all of yours above of course, thanks!), it seemed like the JB3 was a better route to go than the MT for now. Then, considering price, ability to run on batteries, and their ability to connect easily to the JB3 optically without conversion (I think), the UA5 or AD20 seemed like the best options as far as all-in-one pre/ad's are concerned. BUT, I'm really struggling with the choice of mics because I want to be able to BOTH stealth and do HQ open taping -- and on the open taping front, a lot will be classical small quartet style of music, so not sure how the At's might hold up to that vs. the C4's. I might just buy both the C4's and the AT853's but not sure if I can afford that yet. So, if I had to go with one, it seems like the AT853's might be the most flexible. Not sure.

So, here's a few more questions for the pro's to help me work out:

(1) Are the UA5 and AD20 stealthable? I know that is subjective, but I mean practially speaking?

(2) If not, will I be able to get a halfway decent recording if I go straight analog line-in to the JB3 when stealthing (no pre/ad)? I assume the JB3 can take line-in on the analog mini jack right? (as opposed to mic in).

(3) Do you guys have any thoughts on the AD20 vs. UA5 front?

(4) If I only go with the AT853's, will they still produce good results even if I'm in an open taping environment where I could have had much better (and bigger) mics setup? Can I still use some sort of mount/stand with these tiny mics so as to arrange them in an XY pattern when open taping?

(5) I'm struggling with if I decide to go the AT853 route, do I go phantom only (RX) or get the battery-option ones? Also, they come with ridiculously long cables (for hanging I guess). Also, not sure, but does Core Sounds sell AT853-based mics like the CMC4 or something like that? Should I just buy the mics from them?

As always thanks a lot for helping out through this. I'm getting close now for sure...

-- Taynt3d

[Brian]

(1) Are the UA5 and AD20 stealthable? I know that is subjective, but I mean practially speaking?

(2) If not, will I be able to get a halfway decent recording if I go straight analog line-in to the JB3 when stealthing (no pre/ad)? I assume the JB3 can take line-in on the analog mini jack right? (as opposed to mic in).

(3) Do you guys have any thoughts on the AD20 vs. UA5 front?

(4) If I only go with the AT853's, will they still produce good results even if I'm in an open taping environment where I could have had much better (and bigger) mics setup? Can I still use some sort of mount/stand with these tiny mics so as to arrange them in an XY pattern when open taping?

(5) I'm struggling with if I decide to go the AT853 route, do I go phantom only (RX) or get the battery-option ones? Also, they come with ridiculously long cables (for hanging I guess). Also, not sure, but does Core Sounds sell AT853-based mics like the CMC4 or something like that? Should I just buy the mics from them?

no need for help from the pros.....a search will answer all of these questions.  there have been lots of threads here on all that gear you have mentioned.

not trying to be an ass....rather, just offering you a quicker way of finding the answers you seek

[Nick's Picks]

ahh Brian..
but that takes all the fun out of talking about it over ...and over...and over...(think energize bunny)



personaly, as much as I like the 853, i'd get something else.
whats the mic budget at now?

a pair of peluso cards is $550.
even a pair of good oktavas, i'd put those up against the 853.
c4 is a good bet for the money.  i'd take that over the ATs as well.
dont get me wrong, I love the at853.  My first modular mic, and ive got plenty of FAT recordings I did w/them and various other gear.  lots of 853>inbox>MD if you want to hear any of it.  card and omni caps are what I ran.

[terrapinj]

pretty sure the ad-20 does NOT provide phantom power, so you would need something else (PS-2) to power mics that require phantom power. the ad-20/ps-2 combo is more stealthable than the ua-5

[grider]

for about that exact price of $1500.00, there is no doubt in my mind that you should assemble the following rig:

ADK a51TL mics with multiple patters built in $700.00 used
Edirol UA5 digi mod $300.00 used
Creaitve Nomad JB3 $200 used
stand, cords, bars, bag, batteries $300

Total for this excellent widely-used rig:  $1500.00, just do it

[Kindguy]

I'd buy an ounce of blow. 3 korean hookers, 2 handles of Jonny walker black. 

[bhadella]

for about that exact price of $1500.00, there is no doubt in my mind that you should assemble the following rig:

ADK a51TL mics with multiple patters built in $700.00 used
Edirol UA5 digi mod $300.00 used
Creaitve Nomad JB3 $200 used
stand, cords, bars, bag, batteries $300

Total for this excellent widely-used rig:  $1500.00, just do it

This is the exact rig  I started with.  Once your able to save a bit more cash upgrade to UA5 via Doug.  My T + moded UA5 is f***ing fantastic.  Love it!  I've got a bunch of tapes (50 or so) under "Brian Hadella" on the archive that you can try to get a taste of the rig.

[KingReptile]

I'd buy an ounce of blow. 3 korean hookers, 2 handles of Jonny walker black. 

Now were talkin   

[BC]

BUT, I'm really struggling with the choice of mics because I want to be able to BOTH stealth and do HQ open taping -- and on the open taping front, a lot will be classical small quartet style of music,

given this, I think you might want to give strong consideration to a pair of DPA 4060's.

[Thom Joad]

snip

(1) Are the UA5 and AD20 stealthable? I know that is subjective, but I mean practially speaking?

(2) If not, will I be able to get a halfway decent recording if I go straight analog line-in to the JB3 when stealthing (no pre/ad)? I assume the JB3 can take line-in on the analog mini jack right? (as opposed to mic in).

(3) Do you guys have any thoughts on the AD20 vs. UA5 front?

(4) If I only go with the AT853's, will they still produce good results even if I'm in an open taping environment where I could have had much better (and bigger) mics setup? Can I still use some sort of mount/stand with these tiny mics so as to arrange them in an XY pattern when open taping?

(5) I'm struggling with if I decide to go the AT853 route, do I go phantom only (RX) or get the battery-option ones? Also, they come with ridiculously long cables (for hanging I guess). Also, not sure, but does Core Sounds sell AT853-based mics like the CMC4 or something like that? Should I just buy the mics from them?

As always thanks a lot for helping out through this. I'm getting close now for sure...

-- Taynt3d

1- The AD20 is smaller and has no lights.  The UA5 is larger and has lights.  It all really depends on what type of stealthing you plan on doing.  If you're going to a hardcore show, with 6 big dudes checking everyone that goes in, and the roadie out in the crowd looking for people recording, the AD20 would be a better choice.  If you're going to classical shows, that have little, old ladies checking tickets, and no one in the entire place would know what a V3 was, I'd go with a UA5 and keep it closed up in the bag when the lights go down.

2. Don't own a JB3, never played with one, so I can't answer your question specifically, but I think you have your terms mixed up (or so that's how I read it). You use "Line In" when you are using a preamp to boost a mic signal to a line level signal.  You use "mic in" when you are connecting the mics. straight to the recorder (no pre.)  If you want to use mic-in, you have to make sure your recorder can supply phantom power, if you need it (most mics do), and make sure your mic signal was hot enough to get good levels.  Most mics. can only get a hot enough signal to go "mic. in" if they are really close to a really loud source.  That is why most of us use pres.

3.  UA5- way more flexible, bettered by Oade mods (or DIY).  AD20- workhorse, no lights.
 
4. I've heard great "open" tapes made with the AT minis.  I've seen them on stands arranged ORTF (XY would be easy too).

5. Many say phantom powering provides the capsule with enough juice to fully utilize it's dynamic range and sensitivity vs. batt. box which usually provides just enough power for the mic. to work.  I've never heard a AB comp, so I won't comment.  I'd go with the phantom ones, since you are already planning on getting a UA5 or AD20/PS2 each of which provide phantom.  I won't touch the Core-Sound vs. SoundPro deal.  Do a search here on Core Sound and read some folk's experiences for yourself. 

BC is right about you getting DPA 4060's.  Not only to be able to run them open and stealth, but if you record anything classical, with natural string sounds, you will run these someday.  Right now, they would put you over your budget, but those mics. are unbelievable.   

[F.O.Bean]

for about that exact price of $1500.00, there is no doubt in my mind that you should assemble the following rig:

ADK a51TL mics with multiple patters built in $700.00 used
Edirol UA5 digi mod $300.00 used
Creaitve Nomad JB3 $200 used
stand, cords, bars, bag, batteries $300

Total for this excellent widely-used rig:  $1500.00, just do it

agreed, ADK>DMODua5 is PHAT sound IMO

[BayTaynt3d]

no need for help from the pros.....a search will answer all of these questions.  there have been lots of threads here on all that gear you have mentioned. not trying to be an ass....rather, just offering you a quicker way of finding the answers you seek

Yeah, I know, and like I said, I’ve spent weeks now surfing TS. It has been an enormous resource for me. I mean, a couple of weeks ago, I barely knew the lingo and what it meant (line/mic-in, ad, pres, xlr/mini, balanced/unbal, noise floors, xy/ab/etc, phantom, bboxs, etc.). Anyway, thanks for the recommendation, and you should have some comfort in the fact that I can’t even count the number of old threads I’ve been through. BUT, I’m still looking for a little conversation about my specific case, and thankfully, a whole bunch of people seem willing to help. Kudos to all of you for that.

ahh Brian.. but that takes all the fun out of talking about it over ...and over...and over...(think energize bunny). a pair of peluso cards is $550.
even a pair of good oktavas, i'd put those up against the 853.
c4 is a good bet for the money.  i'd take that over the ATs as well.
dont get me wrong, I love the at853.  My first modular mic, and ive got plenty of FAT recordings I did w/them and various other gear.  lots of 853>inbox>MD if you want to hear any of it.  card and omni caps are what I ran.

Exactly. And thanks for those mic tips, I’ll take a look at those options.

pretty sure the ad-20 does NOT provide phantom power, so you would need something else (PS-2) to power mics that require phantom power. the ad-20/ps-2 combo is more stealthable than the ua-5

Thanks. Somehow I missed the lack of phantom on the AD20. And good to know on the stealthability front.

ADK a51TL mics with multiple patters built in $700.00 used

BUT, I'm really struggling with the choice of mics because I want to be able to BOTH stealth and do HQ open taping -- and on the open taping front, a lot will be classical small quartet style of music,

given this, I think you might want to give strong consideration to a pair of DPA 4060's.

Guys, these are great ideas on mics too. Let me look into these, but my initial reaction is even if I come in under-budget, I might not want to splurge quite that far on mics right out of the gate – even though I’ll probably regret not doing so. I mean I can buy both the ATs and the C4s for those prices? The other thing to keep in mind is that I’m already majorly into video for thousands and thousands of dollars, and any money saved (under the 1.5K), will surely go to other good purposes in other gear or accessories -- trust me on that one.

I'd buy an ounce of blow. 3 korean hookers, 2 handles of Jonny walker black. 

LMFAO!

1- The AD20 is smaller and has no lights.  The UA5 is larger and has lights.  It all really depends on what type of stealthing you plan on doing.  If you're going to a hardcore show, with 6 big dudes checking everyone that goes in, and the roadie out in the crowd looking for people recording, the AD20 would be a better choice.  If you're going to classical shows, that have little, old ladies checking tickets, and no one in the entire place would know what a V3 was, I'd go with a UA5 and keep it closed up in the bag when the lights go down.

2. Don't own a JB3, never played with one, so I can't answer your question specifically, but I think you have your terms mixed up (or so that's how I read it). You use "Line In" when you are using a preamp to boost a mic signal to a line level signal.  You use "mic in" when you are connecting the mics. straight to the recorder (no pre.)  If you want to use mic-in, you have to make sure your recorder can supply phantom power, if you need it (most mics do), and make sure your mic signal was hot enough to get good levels.  Most mics. can only get a hot enough signal to go "mic. in" if they are really close to a really loud source.  That is why most of us use pres.

3.  UA5- way more flexible, bettered by Oade mods (or DIY).  AD20- workhorse, no lights.
 
4. I've heard great "open" tapes made with the AT minis.  I've seen them on stands arranged ORTF (XY would be easy too).

5. Many say phantom powering provides the capsule with enough juice to fully utilize it's dynamic range and sensitivity vs. batt. box which usually provides just enough power for the mic. to work.  I've never heard a AB comp, so I won't comment.  I'd go with the phantom ones, since you are already planning on getting a UA5 or AD20/PS2 each of which provide phantom.  I won't touch the Core-Sound vs. SoundPro deal.  Do a search here on Core Sound and read some folk's experiences for yourself. 

BC is right about you getting DPA 4060's.  Not only to be able to run them open and stealth, but if you record anything classical, with natural string sounds, you will run these someday.  Right now, they would put you over your budget, but those mics. are unbelievable.   

Great response. Thanks for hitting on all of my points. Points well taken. On the #2 comment, I was under the impression if I was running bbox or phantom on most mics in a high SPL environment, I could possibly still go line-in without a pre, but maybe I was mistaken. I figure you’d try line-in, and if not enough gain, then go mic-in, but maybe that is pie-in-the-sky talk. On #5, I goofed, I meant SoundPro! Aren't the SP-CMC-2 or 4 or whatevers, just AT853 mics? Or are they something else? I was wondering if I choose the At route, should I go with the SP deal if they are ATs?

Anyway, thanks EVERYONE for well thought out responses. More food for thought. I want to wrap up my research in the next few weeks and then start looking for the gear I need. THANKS! And if I could +T, I certainly would, but I’ve only got 18 tix right now. . Also, if anyone has DV video questions, feel free to hit me up, cause I got that shit dialed like you guys got audio dialed…

Finally, one last thing, since you guys are so willing to help me out, I figure I should share something about myself. I grew up in Ithaca, lived in Boulder for 5 years (yeah, that'd be 5 in college, LOL), and now been in SF for 12 years (I love it here). I've got a pretty extensive multimedia blog with a fair amount of video, which is where I'm planning on posting some of my audio after I get my rig (depends on what the audio is of course, otherwise I'll just seed a Torrent). I just updated my blog to have commenting capability, so leave me some comments if you wish.

BTW, my wife also works at the SF Conservatory of Music, which gives me access to a lot of recitals and incredibly talented students into classical and opera. Finally, it looks like they are going to let me volunteer with them over the new school year (this is a 4-year college), working their soundboard during recitals (after being trained on their gear), and helping create audition tapes (think "demos") for the students -- all using their pro gear (not my own). Anyway, I'm pretty excited about that.



-- Taynt3d

[BayTaynt3d]

Quick Update, and a couple of more questions (and YES I've read HUNDREDS of posts on these topics here at TS already, but I'm asking anyway)...

I've bought a NIB 20 gig JB3 and a NIB Busman2+ mod UA5 from JDM in a miraculous transaction that skirted the Yardsale (JDM had an opportunity to get in on a sweet 722 deal, which was partly funded by selling me the JB3 and UA5 that was just modded by Busman). So, my rig is well on it's way at this point. On the mic front, I'm looking at picking up both a set of Studio Projects C4s and SP-CMC-8s (AT943s probably with the phantom and mini adapter options). And I'm probably going to pick up an SVUx at some point if I can find a deal on one. So my rigs are going to look like this:

Open taping: C4 > Busmod+ UA5 > JB3

Stealth taping: AT943 (9v) > BBOX > JB3 (or possibly AT943 (phantom) > Busmod+ UA5 > JB3 depending on venue and security)

You guys have been an enormous help in putting this together, I can't thank you enough. HOWVER, I still have some other questions, which are getting into the more nitty-gritty stuff. I've already got the requisite TOSLINK connector for the UA5 > JB3 connection, but I need some recommendations for these items:

(1) battery power for my UA5
(2) extra battery for JB3?
(3) mic stand
(4) flexible mic connector (WTF do you call that thing that attaches to stand?) that can position mics in XY, ORTF, etc. orientations
(5) shock mounts?

On the battery front (#1 and #2 above), I'm perfectly happy with 3 hours or so, so no need for crazy battery setups, and I don't really want to run the UA5 and the JB3 off the same external battery -- I just want something to power the UA5, and then I'll use the JB3 internal battery to power it. So, it seems like the Walmart battery combined with ratshack adapter cables are the way to go for UA5 power. Or are their better options? Also, I'm still confused about the extra battery for JB3 (I don't actually have it in my hands yet, should be here today or tomorrow), I'm under the impression you can actually put two batteries in the unit at once? Do I have that right? If so, great, where is the best place to nab another battery, eBay knowckoffs or the yardsale I assume?

On the mic stand and positioning bar (#3 & #4), I have no clue, but I'd like something that can stand pretty tall (nothing crazy though), is not a total tank in weight terms but still sturdy, and something that'll give me the flexibility to position my C4's in a variety of orientations for stereo pickup. So, any suggestions there are very welcome. I'm looking for the tried-and-true setup since I'm a newbie (thus the UA5/JB3 setup in the same vein).

On #5, I've heard the C4 shock mounts kind of suck. Is that true? If so, I might buy some new ones, but it'd be great if I could also squeeze my 943s in there too. I vaguely recall a bunch of posts about a very flexible shock mounts that were resonably priced that worked well with the C4s, but people were also able to mount the mini 943/853 mics into as well? Can't remember the brand though?

Also, are there any other things I need to think about here? Am I missing anything crucial (besides the obvious XLR cables and whatnot), like adapters or ??

-- Thanks again, Taint

[Brian Skalinder]

So, it seems like the Walmart battery combined with ratshack adapter cables are the way to go for UA5 power.

Yes, that's a fine option, one many people use today.

I'm under the impression you can actually put two batteries in the unit at once?

Check the NJB3 Tapers FAQ.

where is the best place to nab another battery, eBay knowckoffs or the yardsale I assume?

Yes.

On the mic stand and positioning bar (#3 & #4), I have no clue, but I'd like something that can stand pretty tall (nothing crazy though), is not a total tank in weight terms but still sturdy, and something that'll give me the flexibility to position my C4's in a variety of orientations for stereo pickup.

For both 3 and 4, check the TS Knowledge Base | Archive | Mics & Setup forum for posts on mic stand options and mic mount bars.

Am I missing anything crucial (besides the obvious XLR cables and whatnot), like adapters or ??

Depending on the mic stand you get, you'll likely need adapters in order to mate the mic mount bar with the stand.  See the aforementioned Archive mic stand post for details.

[grider]

one hugely important suggestion I forgot to make both when I bought my rig and when I suggested a rig above:  splurge on microphones (that is the most important part of your rig in my opinion, and even the best sounding room or the most state of the art recording device will not make average or cheap microphones sound like great microphones)

[bgalizio]

If you want a taste of the C4 > Busman2+ UA-5, I have a Sam Bush show going in the Kickdown section.

[BayTaynt3d]

one hugely important suggestion I forgot to make both when I bought my rig and when I suggested a rig above:  splurge on microphones (that is the most important part of your rig in my opinion, and even the best sounding room or the most state of the art recording device will not make average or cheap microphones sound like great microphones)

So what are you saying? My choice of C4s and AT943s are bad ones? 

Yeah, I know about the mics being #1, but I am building a "starter rig" after all, and I think it'll end up being a pretty good one at the end of the day -- not a pro rig, but damn good nonetheless. Plus, I can always sell the C4s and AT943s later for a decent price, so I'm feeling alright about those choices. But feel free to suggest others and convince me otherwise. 

[terrapinj]

the shock mounts for the c4s aren't the best ever, but they are fairly lowprofile and do the job - I don't believe that the ats will fit in the c4 shock mounts, they are fixed size and made for 19/20mm mics, but you probably won't need shockmounts that fit the stealth mics as you will be wearing them when you stealth and probably running the c4s or other full body mics when you run open

you will also need an optical cable to go from ua-5 > jb3, mic cables, possibly better windscreens if you are gonna be taping anything outdoors, a gear bag, and you probably want to pick up a clamp (never know when you will need one)

a stand adapter may be needed for the stand you purchase, you can find them at www.micsupply.com

a t-bar is used to mount the shockmounts/mic clips to the stand, the more common ones used are the akg km-235 and the shure a27 about $15/20 and $50/60 respectiveley or there are plenty of other options. if you go the route of the c4s they include a small t-bar which you can use but doesn't offer many options

as far as your mics go - for the ~$300 price range you can go c4/octava mc-012/ nak 300 - which is best seems to be a matter of opinion, all should be fairly easy to find used and will hold a pretty good resale value. i don't have any stealth mics so I can't really comment there, although the AT 853s seem to be pretty popular.

[grider]

no, nothing wrong with those choices at all, but you might want to look into the pair of Audix's that have been for sale in the Yard Sale for ever instead, they are nice and small and the price is nice and they come with card and hyper card caps; what I was really suggesting that you ***not*** do what I did when I bought my rig,which was spend more than I should have on a new DAP1 dat machine ($1450) and a new MiniMe ($1200) and then buy very good mics which I'll just replace with better mics soon; what I should have done was buy great mics like Schoeps or DAP with active cables and a used preamp and a used JB3 for the same amount of money, which was a huge mistake considering the DAP1 will soon be obsolete and the MiniMe was sold for a loss within a year of owning it; again, I say scrounge up as much money as you can for the best mics you can afford, buy a used UA5 and a used JB3, and then just upgrade the UA5 down the road when you can afford it; these are merely suggestions however, I have learned these lessons the hard way meaning the financial way

[BJ]

one hugely important suggestion I forgot to make both when I bought my rig and when I suggested a rig above:  splurge on microphones (that is the most important part of your rig in my opinion, and even the best sounding room or the most state of the art recording device will not make average or cheap microphones sound like great microphones)

So what are you saying? My choice of C4s and AT943s are bad ones? 

Yeah, I know about the mics being #1, but I am building a "starter rig" after all, and I think it'll end up being a pretty good one at the end of the day -- not a pro rig, but damn good nonetheless. Plus, I can always sell the C4s and AT943s later for a decent price, so I'm feeling alright about those choices. But feel free to suggest others and convince me otherwise. 

would 575$ for the Audix convince you?  they are tiny! and nice sound...
575$ would get your the micro's, with card and hyper caps, 1 set of 12 ft cords and the original boxes(hardwood) as well as a small pelican case with custom foam. I have over 650$ in these.  Its a damn good deal, but i can't upgrade to new mics until i move these (im looking at some neumanns i think, maybe some mbho's) but this will get me half way there! 

[grider]

I'd suggest those Audix's over the others, no doubt about it

[Nick's Picks]

same here.  the audixs over the others.
but honestly, i've never heard the c4s so I dont know how they compare.  I have run the audix mics, and I do know that they sound very good, and are stealthable.

[ehren]

Audix for sure, it's worth the extra money.

[BayTaynt3d]

Not sure about the Audix guys, maybe as an upgrade later. I might just start with the AT943s because a fair amount of stealthing may be in my future -- and yes, I know those micros can be stealthed, but still not as easily as the 943s. Also, I want OMNI and CARD caps, not really hypers. Do they make omni caps for those micros? If so, how much?

Anyway, here's some more updates about my rig. I'm about to buy the following items from B&H:

- Bogen / Manfrotto 3333 Stand
- K&M 8" Hinged Microphone Support Bar (same as ADK bar)
- Two adapters to change the light stand stud to mic stand 5/8"
- Two more small adapters (5/8-3/8-5/8) to act as riser for one side of stereo bar for XY configs

Still need battery power for the UA5 and an extra JB3 battery...

Getting there!!!   

[BJ]

yes, they have omni's....i have some shows with the omni's up on archive...i had borrowed the from John Kelly...you can get the set for around 200$ from Frank at Cascade...if I was planning on keeping the mics..I would def purchase them...to me..they are the best sounding caps of the three..but I am a huge fan of omni's...

you will like those at's...i know it...  The audix are just a good step up...and mine are selling cheap...ive just got the upgrade bug...no worries tho...that upgrade bug will hit you sooner than you expect!!    good luck.
'
bj

[George]

Whichever mics you choose, good luck!  The at's can produce some great sound in the right environment.  I also own those audix mics and i taped a small portion of a "they might be giants" show a while back and it sounded great, but security were acting very goon-like that night so i quickly shut down to avoid being busted.

[BayTaynt3d]

More updates...

I added a manfrotto super clamp and extension arm to my B&H order.

Just received my NIB JB3 today from JDM. Got the Nomad XP drivers installed, upgraded the JB3 firmware to latest version, installed Nomad Explorer, and my Firewire connection is working flawlessly. Yeah!   

[Evil Taper]

I didn't read the entire thread, but has anyone suggested:

DPA 406x>MMA 6000>JB3 yet?

No matter what you're running behind the AT minis they're just not gonna sound as good as higher grade mics.  You can even pick up a pair of Pelusos brand new for around $500 without the extra caps...not so much considering the ATs or C4s are gonna cost 200-300 anyway.  Just something else to consider instead of buying mics you're gonna ditch for a loss later.

[BayTaynt3d]

.

Well, boys and girls, the rig is coming together. All the pieces are known at this point, most are in my hands already, and the rest is in the mail. I'm loving life. Not, sure, but I think I went a hair over my $1,500 budget, but hey, budgets were meant to break weren't they? Just look at my sig now, whoo hoo!!!

Here's a complete list of purchased gear:

- NIB 20 gig JB3, Busman2+ mod on NIB UA5, TOSLINK cable ($580 from Yard Sale)
- Studio Projects C4 mics ($300)
- SP-CMC-8 (AT943) Cards with AT-Phantom(not Samsung) AND Mini adapters + clips, screens, etc. ($400)
- Bogen / Manfrotto 3333 Mic/Light Stand ($50)
- K&M 8" Hinged Microphone Support Bar, same as ADK bar ($20)
- Two adapters to change the light stand stud to mic stand 5/8" ($18 for both)
- Two more small adapters (5/8-3/8-5/8) to act as riser for one side of stereo bar for XY configs ($10 for both)
- Manfrotto super clamp and extension arm ($50 for both)
- SVU-2 level meter and headphone amp ($80 from Yard Sale)
- Reactive Boost Box small pre and bbox ($125 from Yard Sale)

TOTAL = $1,633

Only thing missing at this point is an extra JB3 battery and a battery solution for my UA5, which I should be able to muster up for around $100 more for both. That would put me near $1,733. Only thing left are some XLR cables and a bunch of adapters for mixing boards (although I own quite a few of those already in my video gear). So, when It's all said and done, I think it'll probably be closer to $1,800 total. Now, some people might think I went overkill on buying two sets of mics and two pres, but remember, my goal wasn't really to have one best rig, it was more to have the flexibility to go super-stealth, semi-stealth, or open, and to get into it all for a reasonable amount of money -- not the best rig, but a damn fine one that is hella-flexible and adaptable, with many components being able to cross-over into my video rig as well. I'm sure it'll need tweaking, and I'm sure I'll get the upgrade urge sooner or later, but for now I'm totally psyched up about it all, and I can always upgrade later and sell off some of this stuff when needed.

So, that said, I think this might be the end of this thread. I must give a MAJOR SHOUT OUT to everyone who helped me with this, I couldn't have done it without you!!!

-- Thanks again, Taint

.

[Nick's Picks]

that'll certainly get you started.
however....imo, your weakest link is your mics...which should be your strongest link.

[thegreatgumbino]

You gotta start somewhere!  Nothing wrong with the gear you got for a starter rig.  +T for the new toys.  Lots to learn I tell ya.  Most importantly, have fun!

[BayTaynt3d]

that'll certainly get you started.
however....imo, your weakest link is your mics...which should be your strongest link.

Agreed, but remember, I was working under a budget constraint here. I mean most of my purchases were bare bones requirements, you simply have to have some of it. Like the JB3, UA5, stand, stereo bar, etc. So, those were must-haves. Then, there were some accessories that maybe I could have avoided, like I could have just got a bbox rather than the Boost Box and maybe could have avoided the phantom-mod on the AT's, but the reality is cutting back on those would have only saved me a couple hundred bucks max. So, then it comes to mics. Considering I wanted a stealth and open rig, I kind of had two choices: buy two sets of mics or maybe go with the only the DPAs. Sure, I could have gone DPA, but were talking hundreds of more dollars for that route. Plus, with the C4s, even though they aren't the best, I get omni and card caps. And on the stealth front, these AT's sure ain't that bad for stealthing. So, I do agree with you that of course I could have better mics, but even though they are the "weakest link" in my rig right now, the other aspects of my rigs are still really at the bare minimum to get decent quality (JB3, UA5, stand, etc.), so it's not like I could have traded down on that front in order to fund better mics or something. The only thing I could have done was pooled the $300 for the C4s with the $400 for the AT's and bought one set of mics, but $700 bucks would probably only bought me one DPA? Or am I wrong on that front? Anyway, surely this is one sweet "starter" rig, and a hugely flexible one for different occasions. Well, at least that was my logic, but I am just a newb after all, so maybe I got it wrong?

[Nick's Picks]

you could have bought a pair of neumann km184s.  they are small enough to stealth with, and fine for open taping, and would certainly have pulled better results w/more consistancy.
even dpa 4061s could have been had for $700, which would have worked either way as well.

but the c4s are supposed to sound nice.
have fun w/them!

[BayTaynt3d]

you could have bought a pair of neumann km184s.  they are small enough to stealth with, and fine for open taping, and would certainly have pulled better results w/more consistancy.
even dpa 4061s could have been had for $700, which would have worked either way as well.

but the c4s are supposed to sound nice.
have fun w/them!

You've peaked my interest... But I feel like I might be missing something here... Don't the km184s run more than $700 EACH? Now the DPAs maybe, but they are something like $500 EACH aren't they? Also, the DPA are omnis and the km184s are cards, and although I want cards in general, it'd be nice to be able to switch back and forth. Now, I'm not sure, maybe you can buy additional caps, but then that's even more money. Also, both are phantom power only, and for hardcore stealthing, I didn't want to deal with phantom. Also for stealthing, wouldn't I need active cables or something for these mics? Isn't that even more money? Problem is, I was trying to balance flexability (stealth vs. open, omni vs. card) with my budget. Anyway, not trying to be a pain in the ass, because I continue to learn something each time you (or anyone else for that matter) opines in, so I encourage that. But, I'm still not sure I couldv'e pulled off DPAs or KM184s under my needs and current budgetary constraints. Maybe if I found them in the Yard Sale, but that's still a maybe, and I didn't want to wait.

[F.O.Bean]

km 184's may be 700 each new retail, but street value is far below that, id never pay 1400 for a pair of 184's YMMV tho

more like 7-800 used for a set, since they arent interchangeable caps

[BJ]

and you could have had a complete set of caps, with a stealthable mic (audix micros) for 700$ total.....

but a nice setup nonetheless...

[thegreatgumbino]

Don't start doubting yourself now.  You've got a complete rig.  Figure out what you like and what you don't like by using it a lot.  You're going to get some great tapes and some shitty tapes as you figure it out.

The C4's are great mics for the price.  I've heard and made many great sounding tapes with the C4 > UA-5 > JB3 rig.  I also made some great sounding tapes with a pair of cheap SP croakie mount at831's > battery box > JB3.

Your gear is a stepping stone.  The longer you hang out around this place the more you're going to learn about gear & what you like/don't like sound wise.  Use your gear to learn some ins/outs of taping for now & upgrade your mics later after you've researched it some more.

[Nick's Picks]

there ya go.
solid advice.

i'm sure you'll like your setup. 
how's your stereo?

[mmmatt]

This is a great starter rig and all the components are popular enough to where you should be able to sell them with little to no loss.  As your ears and budget grow you should be able to turn all that stuff around and step up quickly.  You bought smart so don't sweat it!  +t

Matt

[vince]

I went from mosh pits (slayer, nuclear assault, destruction, creator..etc) straight into the embrace of the Grateful Dead.

not sure how it happened.
I still love good deth metal, but am only interested in the "classics".
that said, I say reign in blood and peace sells were the best.

Ha! That is funny... I went from old school punk to hardcore punk (I've actually seen bands like DRI, Black Flag, Husker Du, 7 seconds back in the day) to speed metal (saw Slayer in Rochester; fav album = Decade of Aggression) to alternative to classic rock (got into this after moving to Boulder, CO of couse!) to hip hop (the more poetic stuff, not the mysogynistic crap) to now pretty much everything including classical over the course of my life. I grew up in Ithaca, NY, which is where Pyramid Sound is. They are the low-bug studio that brought us the likes of S.O.D., Anthrax, and a bunch of other heavy/hardcore bands way back in the day. LOL! Anyway, funny to see the death metal comments from a guy who loves the dead now because I fall in some of those camps myself. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Metallica OPENING for Ozzy on the Master of Puppets Tour (when Cliff was still the bassist). They simply blew Ozzy away so bad that the fans almost rioted before Ozzy came out, and it was the only time I've seen a true "opening act" (as opposed to co-headliners) come back out for an encore. Gotta love the metal, but these days I'm a little more mellow when it comes to listening to good music...

some good taste there, Tainted! pretty much echoes what I was into (and still am a bit) before I got heavy into Old/Alt Country

And before you purchased the whole Kenny G catalog....

...I just blew coffee through my nose and all over the lappie...this thread is great!