Topic: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE

[Hman]

I used my Edirol R-09HR for the first time last night and I have a question.

Set Up: Edirol > Church Ugly Pre > DPA-4060

The Edirol was set Mic Gain low > Low Cut Off ( Recorded in 48K-24B )
The Church Ugly was set a 11 o'clock (Unity gain)

I was about 20' from a EV stack in a small club to test this set up
for the first time, the band was The Blues Travelers.

My levels were slamming so hard that I had to use the level input button
on the Edirol and bring it down to 10 or 11 just to keep the levels between 12 & 6 on the screen.

Is going that low ( since the HR goes to 80 ) a problem ?


Thanks for any input.
Datfly

Well, I don't know if that low is a problem.. The best way is the get gain from the pre-amp,
not from the HR itself. Maybe the sound from the stacks was pretty hard, and you were pretty
closeby if I'm reading this right. If the results are good, I don't think it's a problem..

Last friday I taped a show myself with at943 > ST9100 > R09HR, and set the internal gain
at around 50 if i'm not mistaken. Still I had the get around 10/12dB from my pre to get the
levels around 6 on the screen..

[javertim]

I was always under the impression that it was best to set the RECORDER's levels to unity gain (I've heard that this is around 50 on the R-09HR) and then use the gain on the external (CA Ugly) preamp to control the gain.  Also, Datfly, you didn't say whether you were connecting the CA Ugly to the mic-in or the line-in jack of the Edirol. ... You would definitely want to connect it to the line-in in this case.

[Datfly]

Oops all my info & I did leave that out.

Yes, I went line in.

So unity Gain on the Edirol R-09HR is around 50 ??
I looked around for that but could not find that info.

Thanks,
Datfly

I was always under the impression that it was best to set the RECORDER's levels to unity gain (I've heard that this is around 50 on the R-09HR) and then use the gain on the external (CA Ugly) preamp to control the gain.  Also, Datfly, you didn't say whether you were connecting the CA Ugly to the mic-in or the line-in jack of the Edirol. ... You would definitely want to connect it to the line-in in this case.

[Hman]

Yep,
unity-gain should be around 40/50 (depending on the taping-position)..
and when running a pre, you should definitely go Line-in!

Good luck..

Oops all my info & I did leave that out.

Yes, I went line in.

So unity Gain on the Edirol R-09HR is around 50 ??
I looked around for that but could not find that info.

Thanks,
Datfly

I was always under the impression that it was best to set the RECORDER's levels to unity gain (I've heard that this is around 50 on the R-09HR) and then use the gain on the external (CA Ugly) preamp to control the gain.  Also, Datfly, you didn't say whether you were connecting the CA Ugly to the mic-in or the line-in jack of the Edirol. ... You would definitely want to connect it to the line-in in this case.

[jobseek2001]

Yep,
unity-gain should be around 40/50 (depending on the taping-position)..
and when running a pre, you should definitely go Line-in!

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105893.msg1437837.html#msg1437837

Why would (physical?) position matter?

[guitard]

I recorded a jazz show the other night - first time out with my new Edirol R-09HR.  I used Coresound stealthy cardiods w/ a battery box. 

Shame on me for not fully testing the rig before I went out.  I plugged everything in, and did a "testing....1, 2, 3" voice test directly into the mics and everything seemed to work fine.

However, when I got to the show, I didn't seem to get much of a signal when I plugged the mics into the line-in jack.  If I cranked the input up all the way, I got a little bit of movement on the meter (very little).  So I went with mic-in and at 50, I got what looked like a nice signal (typically hitting somewhere around halfway across the meter).  I recorded the whole show this way.  FYI: the volume of the concert itself was fairly loud for a jazz show.

When I got home and downloaded the audio, I found the volume was really low.  I had to jack it up 14-15 dBs to get it to where it was audible at a decent level.  Fortunately, since it was a jazz concert, even though I really cranked up the volume, the recording didn't suffer from this and sounds quite nice.

Any ideas on why line-in didn't work?  And if I have to go with mic-in, it looks like I need to seriously crank up the input.  Maybe up around 70.  That seems really high though.

I'm still pretty much a newbie at audio recording though - so who knows?

[digifish_music]

I recorded a jazz show the other night - first time out with my new Edirol R-09HR.  I used Coresound stealthy cardiods w/ a battery box. 

Shame on me for not fully testing the rig before I went out.  I plugged everything in, and did a "testing....1, 2, 3" voice test directly into the mics and everything seemed to work fine.

However, when I got to the show, I didn't seem to get much of a signal when I plugged the mics into the line-in jack.  If I cranked the input up all the way, I got a little bit of movement on the meter (very little).  So I went with mic-in and at 50, I got what looked like a nice signal (typically hitting somewhere around halfway across the meter).  I recorded the whole show this way.  FYI: the volume of the concert itself was fairly loud for a jazz show.

When I got home and downloaded the audio, I found the volume was really low.  I had to jack it up 14-15 dBs to get it to where it was audible at a decent level.  Fortunately, since it was a jazz concert, even though I really cranked up the volume, the recording didn't suffer from this and sounds quite nice.

Any ideas on why line-in didn't work?  And if I have to go with mic-in, it looks like I need to seriously crank up the input.  Maybe up around 70.  That seems really high though.

I'm still pretty much a newbie at audio recording though - so who knows?

You were on low sensitivity or plugged into the line-in?

digifish

[guitard]

You were on low sensitivity or plugged into the line-in?

digifish

I tried to go line-in, but I couldn't get a decent signal, so I switched over to the mic jack.

My initial setup was:

Line In
Limiter/ACG - OFF
Low Cut- OFF
Plug In Power - OFF
Mic Gain - LOW
audio input at 50

After switching over to mic, I didn't adjust anything else because I thought since it appeared I was getting a good signal, I was OK as is.

[surf1div1]

I suggest you take in your BB and have it checked. I myself used the Core Sound HEB with the Core BB and had several problems. Brought it into a authorized service center and they found that the cables for the BB from Core were not grounding properly and I ended up getting rid of the Core Sound BB as a result. I've now gotten rid of anything from Core (save the HEB MIC'S ONLY) and hopefully will have no more problems. It was a major hassle as I thought by using this new unit that would solve the issues I had with equipment. Wouldn't you know it, but the BB was an issue. I've now had my mic wires re terminated to do away with using the CORE BB and as a result one of the advantages is that I don't have that huge DIN type of plug and it's much more stealthy as a result. The other advantage is that I now am on my way to reliable equipment. I've recently purchased both the Church BB and his CA Ugly. I've used the recommendation of others on this board in terms of where to get my equipment, and if you do your 'due diligence' you'll find who to go with and who to stay away from. Best of luck to you.

You were on low sensitivity or plugged into the line-in?

digifish

I tried to go line-in, but I couldn't get a decent signal, so I switched over to the mic jack.

My initial setup was:

Line In
Limiter/ACG - OFF
Low Cut- OFF
Plug In Power - OFF
Mic Gain - LOW
audio input at 50

After switching over to mic, I didn't adjust anything else because I thought since it appeared I was getting a good signal, I was OK as is.

[Sebastian]

I just got my R-09 HR. The unit looks great and rock solid, compared to the old R-09. Coming from the earlier model, I'm quite familiar with the HR already. But there's one thing I don't yet understand. How exactly does the limiter work? I couldn't find any info on it in the manual (besides how to enable/disable it).

[Dede2002]

I just got my R-09 HR. The unit looks great and rock solid, compared to the old R-09. Coming from the earlier model, I'm quite familiar with the HR already. But there's one thing I don't yet understand. How exactly does the limiter work? I couldn't find any info on it in the manual (besides how to enable/disable it).

From the manual: "the Limiter or AGC is a feature that controls distortion by compressing
input levels to an appropriate level when the input sound is too loud". In other words, stay away from this feature if you intend to record live music or the Limiter will destroy the natural dynamics of your recordings ( it's OK for interviews, speech etc).
For live music, keep it on the "off" position.
Take care

[Sebastian]

From the manual: "the Limiter or AGC is a feature that controls distortion by compressing
input levels to an appropriate level when the input sound is too loud". In other words, stay away from this feature if you intend to record live music or the Limiter will destroy the natural dynamics of your recordings ( it's OK for interviews, speech etc).
For live music, keep it on the "off" position.
Take care

Thanks, but I read the manual. I wanted to know how *exactly* this works. When is the limiter triggered? What's its threshold? Is it a hard limiter or does it act more like a compressor with a ratio?

I also know that it's normally a bad idea to use a limiter on live audio. But I was wondering if it would help me avoid clipping in those stealth situations. A limiter kicking in is not as worse as a clipped recording...

[Dede2002]

From the manual: "the Limiter or AGC is a feature that controls distortion by compressing
input levels to an appropriate level when the input sound is too loud". In other words, stay away from this feature if you intend to record live music or the Limiter will destroy the natural dynamics of your recordings ( it's OK for interviews, speech etc).
For live music, keep it on the "off" position.
Take care

Thanks, but I read the manual. I wanted to know how *exactly* this works. When is the limiter triggered? What's its threshold? Is it a hard limiter or does it act more like a compressor with a ratio?

I also know that it's normally a bad idea to use a limiter on live audio. But I was wondering if it would help me avoid clipping in those stealth situations. A limiter kicking in is not as worse as a clipped recording...

Trust me: you don't want to use that thing on live audio. It's not intended for that. It's not that hard to avoid clipping. If you use 24 bit, there's no reason at all to tape hot. You're going to love your recordings running your levels around -20db and -12db.
Check this out. Awesome reading.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,69144.msg929333.html#msg929333

[EJochen]

I'm probably going to buy one of these within the next week, but I have to know, does it go through metal detectors?

[Dede2002]

I'm probably going to buy one of these within the next week, but I have to know, does it go through metal detectors?

Some folks around here say the R-09HR has no problem with metal detectors. Make sense because it's pretty much plastic. Anyway, I think it all depends on the metal detector set up: high or low.