Topic: new marantz PMD 661

[flintstone]

"...the on-board mics and mic preamp be about the same quality than Edirol..."

It could go either way.  In the past, Marantz has seen ENG and court reporters (stenographers) as the primary markets for its portable recorders.  Neither group needs the same sonic clarity that music and nature recordists do. 

The pre could be similar to the PDM620, which is Marantz's most recent design.  The PDM620 has its strengths, but it's audibly more noisy than the R-09HR.  Or maybe Marantz re-worked the preamp found in the PMD671.  That preamp is one of the best below $1000 (other contenders include the Tascam HD-P2 and Fostex FR-2LE).

We'll just have to wait for the answer.  I'm hoping that there's enough room inside the PMD661's case for folks like Busman and Oade to do their magic.  The Oade-modified PMD660 I owned for a while sounded great!

Flintstone

[carpa]

thanks for answering.
You said: "The pre  (in 661)could be similar to the PDM620, which is Marantz's most recent design.  The PDM620 has its strengths, but it's audibly more noisy than the R-09HR"
This is true, and that's why I was just about to order an Edirol. But since I will in any way upgrade to an external mike solution (and preamp quality is important) I wonder how much better could be having an XLR input onboard (marantz) than using an external phantom power box with R09HR.

[Dede2002]

I was just about ordering an Edirol R09HR when I saw this new Marantz pdm661.
Given that I need a recorder which I can use for rehearsals and taping my concerts (solo classical piano, or piano and violin and larger ensembles) I would like a thing that can be upgraded with the following aims:

1)Rehearsals or concerts with no time or room to place a decent rig= all in one recorder and that's all
2)Better recordings (some time to spend on placing and possibility to carry more things with me)= recorder plus external mikes (o stereo mike).

With the new Marantz everything should work fine (I guess the on-board mics and mic preamp be about the same quality than Edirol).
With Edirol I should run a battery powered mic (Rode nt4 or Audiotechnica AT8022) or use an external phantom power unit like Art etc.
Of course nobody can compare the tho decks in terms of built in mikes and mic preamp quality as Marantz is not available yet;
but apart from this I would like to know if using an external  phantom with a pocket recorder is exactly the same as running mics into XLR imputs on another deck like this marantz.
thank you for helping me

I would be very careful if I was you. If you have time in your hands, wait till the oficial release, tests and TS members thoughts. I have both R-09HR and R-09 and I love them. On the other hand, I bought this Marantz PMD 620  8 months ago just because it was said to be a great machine.
Well, I wish I didn't. Only used it 3 times. There's no way you can compare R-09HR with the Marantz 620 IMHO. Of course this time we are discussing another machine. But I think you're in the same spot I was 8 months ago.
Just my 0.000002 cents.
Take care

[jacobmyers]

thanks for answering.
You said: "The pre  (in 661)could be similar to the PDM620, which is Marantz's most recent design.  The PDM620 has its strengths, but it's audibly more noisy than the R-09HR"
This is true, and that's why I was just about to order an Edirol. But since I will in any way upgrade to an external mike solution (and preamp quality is important) I wonder how much better could be having an XLR input onboard (marantz) than using an external phantom power box with R09HR.

There's really no way to answer this definitively without seeing inside the 661. It's possible that the 661 preamp is probably a relative of the 671. This supposition is fairly logical; they're both 24-bit machines with balanced (and powered) microphone inputs. The 620 has a 1/8" input (as does the R09HR). So comparison of the 620 and 661 is likely moot. It's possible that the 661 preamp is simply the 660 preamp (up to the ADC, of course). Some people have mentioned just sitting tight until there's actually one of these on the street (and someone gets a chance to poke around in its guts to see what's what). I think that's an extremely good idea. Or maybe you can call Marantz and talk them out of some information.

I personally chose an all-in-one box for the sake of convenience. I don't want to carry any more gear than is absolutely necessary to "get the job done". Einstein said it best: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. [or words to that effect]

[carpa]

Yes, definitely there's no chance to know anything till it's out, and it's an advantage not having lots of things to carry around.
It's a a matter of money also. In italy Edirol costs 340 euros and pdm620 390, so I think  this new Marantz will cost not less than 650/700 Euros.
An external phantom it's about 100 euros here, but I think without it not much can be done as in Italy there aren't so many self powered solutions. I have seen that Audio-technica  has launched two new  stereo mikes, and one of the two (AT8022) can be battery powered also.
I'm absolutely a newbie in technical aspects, but the frequency diagram (20-15 khz!!) shows an embarassing up and downhill, which I don't know if it's a prelude of a neutral sound.
we'll see.
thank you
c

[digifish_music]

An external phantom it's about 100 euros here, but I think without it not much can be done as in Italy there aren't so many self powered solutions.

You need to learn to use eBay A (battery) phantom power supply should be 30-50 euros max.

digifish

[aaronji]

Whoa, now isn't this little guy interesting.  I can't wait to hear what Doug thinks about mods when he gets his hands on one of these. 

Probably, something like, "I just hope they use a large chip solder pad (ssop-8) so I will have more choices when I do my thing to its analog section."

<snip>

The Oade-modified PMD660 I owned for a while sounded great!

Flintstone

Yeah, I have heard some great recordings done with the mod'ed 660's.  I have been using an Oade mod'ed 620 recently, and it sounds great too...Surprisingly so, even...

I can't wait to check out this new recorder, and I hope there is enough room under the hood for Oade and Busman to do their thing!

Incidentally, I have sent a few queries to Marantz and my local distributor to ask about some of the questions that have come up here (max file size/seamless splits, line2 use, bit-accuracy, etc.).

[hypnotoad]

So comparison of the 620 and 661 is likely moot. It's possible that the 661 preamp is simply the 660 preamp (up to the ADC, of course).

Yea, I'd probably have to agree with that.  Since this thing looks like it's coming out near a $600 price point, my guess is that it'll lean more towards its predecessor and have innards something like the 660.

[tapinfool]

i hear it may be a bit smaller than the 660 

[Javier Cinakowski]

i hear it may be a bit smaller than the 660 

 

[aaronji]

A little tidbit of additional information on this thing:

In regards to your question regarding the digital input of the new PMD661– I have been told by development that the recordings, made through the on-board S/PDIF input go directly to the card.  No resampling, level adjustment, effects, or filter.  Therefore, they claim the digital input to be bit accurate.  What comes in, gets written to the card.

I know a few people were curious about that...

Also, some speculation from Doug Oade on some of the other questions we have been raising here:

I feel confident it will have the file management features of the 620...I suspect it uses an A/D chip with multiple inputs and the line in 2 will use one of them. many of these chips do have mixing capabilities built in but require the firmware to support this feature.

[datbrad]

Another thing I would like to know is if it has active electronics between the line input and the gain control. As many of us have learned, unlike the good old portable DATs of old like the D10, SV255, Portadat, DA-P1, etc. that had no pre-gain active electronics on the line stage, most of the file based recorders of today are cursed with this problem. Using a DA-P1, for example, you could feed it a line signal so hot that the gain was dialed down to "2", and as long as the meters did not peak into "over", there was no recorder overload distortion.

Unfortunately with most of today's flash recorders, this is not the case. A hot input, even with recording levels showing well below "0", you can end up with a distorted recording because the load on the active electronics before the gain control clipped them. If this unit does not have that problem and can accept any line signal no matter how hot, this will make it able to take a typically hot SBD feed without issue, and I would love that.

[spyder9]

Brad,

This puppy has a 2nd Line-In on the side, which should be dialed down.  1/8" but still.................. (shrugs)

[datbrad]

Brad,

This puppy has a 2nd Line-In on the side, which should be dialed down.  1/8" but still.................. (shrugs)

Actually, that is the feature that has me worried. With most flash recorders, when there are multiple analog input options, an electronic menu feature is employed and allows the user to select which input the recorder will "listen to". It's the action of toggling though a menu to select inputs that indicates an active circuit exists between the physical line input jack and the gain control knob.

I was hoping that the with the simple mechanical switch that moves the circuit between line and mic at the XLR input jacks, this would mean this recorder could take a line input signal so loud that you would have to dial the gain knob to "1" or "2", and as long as the digital levels don't show going "over", you can be confident no clipping whatsoever occured in the recorder. This is really needed with a very hot SBD feed that you cannot for whatever reason get the FOH engineer to turn down for you.

This will be a question Doug will be able to answer as soon as he gets the first batch and cracks into one.




 

[spyder9]

I've recorded with the Mic-In (1/8) on the Tascam DR-1 handheld, with a Hot SBD feed, and got great results.  Granted the combo jacks are not the most efficient as far as db management and noise.  But, the technology has gone 10-fold in just 3 years.  I'm confident in this unit.  It just raises the bar for the other mannys.