Author Topic: In-home interview project: My head is spinning, I need expert guidance! (Read 5908 times)

Arkaium · « **on:** February 23, 2012, 12:44:44 PM »

Folks,

For the longest time, I've wanted to document the story of my parents' life, particularly some rather exciting bits in their youth. Laziness, cost, etc. have all played a part in things not quite coming together, but I feel like I'm finally ready to embark on what seems like a quest that's way over my head.

I have a Canon T2i that, while certainly not pro-level from a video standpoint, gets the job done at 1080 24p and a decent bitrate. From very early on, my research taught me that the AGC inherent in the T2i made the prospects of plugging anything directly into the camera seem ill-advised.

Anyways, here is my planned setup:
LOCATION: My parents' living room (no acoustic dampening; tile floors and bare walls)
SUBJECT: Sitting on a couch in front of a wall
EQUIPMENT:
• Canon T2i on tripod/monopod
• Tascam DR-40 (will likely get the power adapter and not bother with batteries)

...And here's where I need the most help. I've done my very, very best to read up on all the different mics and mic types to figure out the mic (~$150-$250) that will give me the best quality and also work for me in other uses/projects. Here's what I'm considering:

Rode NTG-2: I know that a hypercardioid would be vastly preferred for my indoor application versus the shotgun NTG-2, but I just see myself using a shotgun mic (i.e. outdoor audio) as much or more so than any indoor recording. The arrangement I figured would work best was a boom stand hovering above my subject's head just out of shot, pointing directly at their face, but EVERYWHERE I look, folks are suggesting that a shotgun mic, particularly in a room where nothing's been treated for echo, is a mistake.

Rode NT-3: While everyone seems to prefer this mic in situations similar to what I have planned, my understanding is that it won't work well for outdoor purposes? Will it be THAT much better than the NTG-2 for my use?

Countryman EMW wired XLR lavalier: Almost everyone (even myself) consider a lavalier to be the ideal mic for an interview, which is basically what I want to do, but the EMW has a couple problems in my mind: it's rather expensive, and it has rather limited applications.

I don't mind buying a more specialized mic for just this project and then buying a second one down the road, so if what seems to be the sagest wisdom confirms what I'm reading around the internets, then that's what I'll do. I guess I just want my first serious mic purchase to afford me SOME versatility, and I feel the shotgun mic does exactly that. Will it be THAT bad indoors? And I apologize if I sound like someone who is just unwilling to accept the truth; it's more a case of wanting to figure out if the sentiment I'm coming across regarding shotguns indoors is overblown or not.

Thank you!!

Arkaium · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:30:11 PM »

I'd also love to learn more about some of the modular mics I've seen. A hypercardioid recommendation I've seen is the Audio-Technica AT4053B. It's a pricey mic, but I noticed they have a modular version. Are there any draw backs to getting the modular version in the hope of putting different modules on for different purposes down the road?

Thank you!!

beatkilla · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:51:47 PM »

You can disable the automatic gain control on the T2i in the menu choose manual mode instead.

rastasean · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:15:13 PM »

If you get the shotgun, or any mic really, how are you going to mount it? Do you mind if its in the frame or not? Why do you think a hypercad is preferred for indoors?

considerations:
audio technica 822
audio technica 8022
rode nt4
church audio CA 14 cards
sennheiser md 46

Arkaium · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:55:35 PM »

Quote from: beatkilla on February 23, 2012, 09:51:47 PM

You can disable the automatic gain control on the T2i in the menu choose manual mode instead.

I was under the impression that short of the Magic Lantern hack, it could not actually be disabled? Either way, I decided a whole ago I didn't want to mount the mic to my camera for this particular project, so I figured I'd get much better quality if I invested in a portable recorder that could power phantom XLR mics.

Arkaium · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:00:47 PM »

Quote from: rastasean on February 23, 2012, 10:15:13 PM

If you get the shotgun, or any mic really, how are you going to mount it? Do you mind if its in the frame or not? Why do you think a hypercad is preferred for indoors?

considerations:
audio technica 822
audio technica 8022
rode nt4
church audio CA 14 cards
sennheiser md 46

I read from a variety of audiophile/expert sites that the acoustic properties of the shotgun mic would result in tinnier sound with more echo (in an untreated room). Folks seemed to suggest that a hypercardioid offered a cleaner, more natural for indoor vocals. Could that sentiment be more for podcasts and musical recordings as opposed to my interview plan?

I was planning to get a 25 dollar boom stand, I believe the brand was On Stage, and have it just above and out of frame of my subject. I'll have the DR-40 oriented toward the subject too and would perhaps layer that input into the final video too, of I felt it added a sense of the space.

Would an NTG-1/2 work well enough in the scenario I'm describing? I guess I just wish there was a way I could know how the sound will pick up on both kinds of mics on that room.

Thanks for responding!

rastasean · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:30:37 PM »

Whatever mics you get, just make it work.

My only reservation with a hypercard is that if your parents are a little far apart, one of them may not have the dialogue recorded. You want them to be comfortable so it would look awkward (especially since you're filming this) to have them sit very close together).
Shotguns are like a long hypercard mic with a lot of off axis rejection at high frequencies, but they can and have been used indoors. I really don't want to claim i know everything about microphones so i'll link you to this very detailed and technical post about shotguns: Shotgun recommendation by DSatz

Is there any reason you have not considered mics like the ca14 cards? Also, another pair worth considering is audio technica 831.

Arkaium · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:45:06 PM »

Quote from: rastasean on February 23, 2012, 11:30:37 PM

Whatever mics you get, just make it work. My only reservation with a hypercard is that if your parents are a little far apart, one of them may not have the dialogue recorded. You want them to be comfortable so it would look awkward (especially since you're filming this) to have them sit very close together).
Shotguns are like a long hypercard mic with a lot of off axis rejection at high frequencies, but they can and have been used indoors. I really don't want to claim i know everything about microphones so i'll link you to this very detailed and technical post about shotguns: Shotgun recommendation by DSatz

Is there any reason you have not considered mics like the ca14 cards? Also, another pair worth considering is audio technica 831.

Gosh, it's enough to make one's head spin, all these suggestions. Thank you, but I guess having more choices is only making it harder! I'm not opposed to spending more on one great mic if that's what is necessary, I just want to make sure I get the best thing for this application WHILE also keeping future potential projects in mind.

The Rode NT-4 does look like an interesting package, but it seems to almost never be used for interviews like what I have in mind? Same goes for the matched pair NT-5s, which seem more reasonable in terms of price and for which I could easily get a couple boom stands and end up spending less money... Will those mics work well for pure vocals from about 2 or so feet away?

I couldn't find the church audio mic you recommended, but thanks for offering the advice.

Do I need to worry about stereo since this is essentially a traditional sitdown interview?

Ugh, it's honestly enough info to give me a headache!

rastasean · « **Reply #8 on:** February 26, 2012, 12:51:46 AM »

I don't mean to confuse you!

Consider the CA14 cards
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141135.0

You may also need a pre-amp like the 9100 pre-amp. The pair of mics will be useful in the future if you want to do more interviews or music recording.

Patrick · « **Reply #9 on:** February 26, 2012, 02:10:11 AM »

I would buy a church audio cardioid set and either run them as a stereo pair on a short stand in front of the couch, or better yet, maybe use the Church Audio mics as lavs. With the right placement on the subject, I'm sure you could make a very nice sounding dialog with a hyper cardioid lav. Good luck!

Arkaium · « **Reply #10 on:** February 26, 2012, 12:36:14 PM »

Quote from: Patrick on February 26, 2012, 02:10:11 AM

I would buy a church audio cardioid set and either run them as a stereo pair on a short stand in front of the couch, or better yet, maybe use the Church Audio mics as lavs. With the right placement on the subject, I'm sure you could make a very nice sounding dialog with a hyper cardioid lav. Good luck!

Thanks to all for the feedback.

I ultimately decided that despite all of my wishes to get a mic I could have more varied uses with, the best choice for this project as I'd planned it was a lavalier mic. In my price range, I considered the Countryman EMW, the Countryman B6, Sony ECM-44b, and the AT-899. The Countrymans, while well reviewed, were a little pricey in the wired XLR config I wanted. My huge problem with the ECM-44b was what I perceived from audio samples as a thinness. Other lavs I heard samples for had a smoother, more rounded sound (imo). I also didn't like that it did NOT accept phantom power and was self powered. I wanted a device with the option.

I settled on the reasonably priced, good sized, well reviewed AT-899. I don't plan on having more than on subject in frame at once, so one will do for now. It'll go into my DR-40 (yet to come, hopefully chopper free), and I'll also orient that recorders built in mics toward my subject, like in X/Y, and use that audio if it adds to the final product.

I'll let you all know how it goes! If anyone has any lav tips or anything specifically relating to the AT-899, let me know!

BTW, for anyone who has been looking for a deal on this mic, Musician's Friend has it for 199.99 and offers a 15% off coupon for items 199 and over just barely qualifying it. I got it for $18x shipped.

rastasean · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2012, 01:14:54 PM »

the AT-899 is omni, correct? So you went form wanting hypercard to omni?
Please update us after you do the recording!

Arkaium · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2012, 02:44:39 PM »

Quote from: rastasean on February 26, 2012, 01:14:54 PM

the AT-899 is omni, correct? So you went form wanting hypercard to omni?
Please update us after you do the recording!

From my limited experience with lavs, I've found that it can often be difficult, based on the subject's clothes and posture, to get things just right. I figured the omnidirectional pickup, since it will still greatly isolate background noise due it being a lav, will be a little easier for a less experienced audio person (me) to use. What I've read online seems to reinforce this, and there seems to also be the general sentiment that omni sounds a little more natural and far less likely to be affected by the subject shifting their position/posture. This will be a controlled environment will little background noise, so the more extreme isolation of the cardioid is probably unnecessary. Then again, I can only make all of these assessments and decisions based on limited experience (I will very likely do a test for video and audio and plan the best locations in my parents' home before I actually do the full sit down with them), so if there are things I'm unaware of or could learn, I'm open to all the experience from the folks round here!

If there is of course, in this context, a better lavalier mic in your opinion, I am still open to suggestions. I figured I might as well go with one, a well reviewed one, and get some learning in

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2012, 11:40:30 PM »

I totally agree that a hyper/shotgun is best for speech. After all, thats what they are made for

mr qpl · « **Reply #14 on:** February 27, 2012, 10:17:07 AM »

why not clip on omnis? used all the time on tv. theater.

rastasean · « **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2012, 11:20:46 AM »

omnis would be good if you're able to control the environmental settings, but that's not always the case and you may not want to record everything around the subject.

Patrick · « **Reply #16 on:** February 27, 2012, 11:24:21 AM »

A hyper cardioid lav would be one shitty lav mic

Most lav mics are omni and for great reason... Almost no proximity effect, no directionality, meaning no pff axis points that results in loss of signal. You can put the mic remotely close to the person's mouth and you'll be good to go.

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2012, 11:55:40 AM »

Radio broadcasters use XY, to get that mono-ness, but still retaining the stereo...

Terry

Arkaium · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2012, 05:21:17 PM »

Quote from: Patrick on February 27, 2012, 11:24:21 AM

A hyper cardioid lav would be one shitty lav mic

Most lav mics are omni and for great reason... Almost no proximity effect, no directionality, meaning no pff axis points that results in loss of signal. You can put the mic remotely close to the person's mouth and you'll be good to go.

That's what I always figured! The AT-899 seems like a good choice then, a solid omni clip-on. I'll let you all know how it goes!

Arkaium · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2012, 12:44:19 PM »

Folks, I need some more tips!

I just did a test at my folks' place this past weekend and I'm generally pleased with the results! The AT899 sounds fantastic and the DR-40 was surprisingly easy to figure out. I'll post some audio samples soon, but I had a couple questions:

I imagine that with the TASCAM recorders, "INPUT LEVEL" refers to the mic volume. Are there any other settings for mic volume? Can people give me some tips on what my levels should look like ideally?

I recorded at 15, 20, 25, and 40 input levels (Mono, with the dual mode turned on so I could get a duplicate of the lavalier line at a lower db), and I think I was just WAY too low. Looked like this most of the time:

[•••••••----|-------------]

Do I want the input to get CLOSE to the end without hitting it? I think I just need some general recorder tips! There were some settings I didn't know about either "cut" this or "pass" that. Are their any no-brainers a newb like me may overlook?

I did notice that the preamps on the DR-40, or the self noise rather (maybe the mic was making noise too), was present. Pressing question: if I opt to NOT use the phantom power of the DR-40 and instead put a battery in the AT899, which can be self powered, will that reduce/increase that self-noise?

One final question: what format do you all record in? I maxed out at 24/96, but maybe that's overkill? There's no issue with recording at that quality, correct?

All in all everything worked splendidly and I learned a lot of lessons about how to use all my equipment. On a side note, for any of you who like doing video, you HAVE to look into the Manfrotto 561dv1a Monopod. It is the sexiest, most fun to use piece of kit I own.

Thank you in advance for the help!!

DigiGal · « **Reply #20 on:** March 05, 2012, 02:06:23 PM »

Quote from: Arkaium on February 26, 2012, 12:36:14 PM

Quote from: Patrick on February 26, 2012, 02:10:11 AM
I would buy a church audio cardioid set and either run them as a stereo pair on a short stand in front of the couch, or better yet, maybe use the Church Audio mics as lavs. With the right placement on the subject, I'm sure you could make a very nice sounding dialog with a hyper cardioid lav. Good luck!

Thanks to all for the feedback.

I ultimately decided that despite all of my wishes to get a mic I could have more varied uses with, the best choice for this project as I'd planned it was a lavalier mic. In my price range, I considered the Countryman EMW, the Countryman B6, Sony ECM-44b, and the AT-899. The Countrymans, while well reviewed, were a little pricey in the wired XLR config I wanted. My huge problem with the ECM-44b was what I perceived from audio samples as a thinness. Other lavs I heard samples for had a smoother, more rounded sound (imo). I also didn't like that it did NOT accept phantom power and was self powered. I wanted a device with the option.

I settled on the reasonably priced, good sized, well reviewed AT-899. I don't plan on having more than on subject in frame at once, so one will do for now. It'll go into my DR-40 (yet to come, hopefully chopper free), and I'll also orient that recorders built in mics toward my subject, like in X/Y, and use that audio if it adds to the final product.

I'll let you all know how it goes! If anyone has any lav tips or anything specifically relating to the AT-899, let me know!

BTW, for anyone who has been looking for a deal on this mic, Musician's Friend has it for 199.99 and offers a 15% off coupon for items 199 and over just barely qualifying it. I got it for $18x shipped.

Forget the ECM 44 go with the ECM-55 instead. It's very popular omni lav mic, phantom or AA powered and it's a better sounding mic than the 44.

rastasean · « **Reply #21 on:** March 05, 2012, 03:58:15 PM »

how does the recording sound? the mics sound good but the recording is low?You are using mic input, right?

Also, i have used cards for lav and its fine. I certainly would not use omnis at my moms where its very noisy so you have to use the right mic for the right situation.