Topic: spaced omni question?

[ArchivalAudio]

wondering about what is best for spaced omnis....
FOB
or perhaps at SBD
I've heard smoking  8' or more spaced omni recording FOB

also "Healey method"
however
I do really like this:
http://db.etree.org/shn/98673

Digital Audience Recording
Recorded by Mike Grace and Annie Szvetecz
Lineage: Mike Grace Master PCM
Recording Equipment:
Schoeps CMC42 (Spread Omnis, Spaced 3 Feet Apart with 180 degree angle of incidence) ->
Grace 18v Mic Preamp -> MOD PCM-F1
http://www.shnflac.net/details.php?id=0f3653c7cb43b20401fb3c0d2c7272ce56902815

has anyone run  3' spaced at 180° and liked it?

since we are talking omnis, why would 180° make a difference?  Couldn't they be pointed straight up , or any old way for that matter?

I do like 8' or 10' spaced way FOB when able to run that way...
wondering if 180 would work better indoors or outdoors or if it would matter?

thank you in advance for feedback.
--Ian

[microburst]

I have run Healey with a pair of TLM 170s but this was when we were direct micing most of the instruments and ran the Healey pair solely to augment the direct mics and get a natural room sound.  This WAS indoors though if I were only running pair of omnis Healey I would not run and would not recommend to anyone that they run this pair in an indoor environment.   Too much reflection.  Just my initial thoughts at 6 AM on a Sunday without drinking any coffee.

[F.O.Bean]

I have always loved Healy method! I have an old pair of tv rabbit ears I found and I'm going to do some spaced Healy method experimenting this summer

[jlykos]

You may want to look at the response characteristics of your set of omnis to see if they are truly flat or have peaks at some of the various frequencies. My Gefell omnis, for example, have a high-frequency bump at around 10,000 hz. making them better suited for recording at a bit of a distance. Other omnis that I have seen are flatter, so they may benefit from being placed up closer where they can capture more direct sound and not be as affected by room resonances.

In my experience, 3' is too close for omni spacing. I prefer a slightly wider spread of between 4' and 6', but that may just be personal preference. I have run at 10' before and didn't like the results too much; it sounded like there was a hole in the middle of the soundstage. Experiment with what you like best.

As far as directionality, I point the capsules at the stacks to better capture high-frequency responses and midrange. I don't know if this is a placebo effect, however. As the capsules are supposedly "omnidirectional," I really don't see much benefit or harm (in theory, at least) in having the capsules at 180 degrees or the like.

[aaronji]

Omnis become directional at higher frequencies.  This effect is related to the diameter of the mic; you can see this by comparing the polar plots for a tiny mic (like the 4060, which is nearly omni throughout the frequency range) versus a larger mic (like the 4006, which becomes increasingly directional at higher frequencies).  Healey takes advantage of this to create more of a stereo image...

[F.O.Bean]

Im going to split my ca14 omnis around 30" with my old TV rabbit ears

[jagraham]

^ That works well.  I've done the same with the CAFS omnis up to 5' spread at festivals, sounds good if you are in the right spot.  Maybe not so much if you aren't FOB and center.

[ArchivalAudio]

thanx to all for the replies!

I guess what I am wondering still is that if caps are omnis, why would it matter where they are pointed?

I suppose that I get the idea of "aiming" the caps at the stacks (PAS) for a more direct angle of incident to the caps.

I do know some run the caps pointed straight up as well.

I also know omnis do sound best outdoors where there is minimal reflections.
I have heard great sounding FOB spaced omnis  indoors as well.

any further thoughts?  best way to point the caps?  180° sounds as good as any, or up should it or does it matter...

[F.O.Bean]

Im running healy method or NOS w/ my ca14 omnis this summer. Healy is 90* from the sound source, and NOS/WideORTF is pretty close to 45*-90* from the sound source

[John Willett]

thanx to all for the replies!

I guess what I am wondering still is that if caps are omnis, why would it matter where they are pointed?

Because omni microphones go directional at higher frequencies caused by the size of the body.

I suppose that I get the idea of "aiming" the caps at the stacks (PAS) for a more direct angle of incident to the caps.

This will give you full frequency response on-axis with reduces treble to the rear.

I do know some run the caps pointed straight up as well.

I have done this when I'm using diffuse-field omnis in  the near field.  In this case they would be too bright, so pointing them upwards means that the direct sound comes in at 90° and is a flatter response (this is clear if you study the polar-pattern of the microphone and compare it to the frequency response curve).

I also know omnis do sound best outdoors where there is minimal reflections.
I have heard great sounding FOB spaced omnis  indoors as well.

Omnis are great in both situations.

any further thoughts?  best way to point the caps?  180° sounds as good as any, or up should it or does it matter...

You use your ears and do what sounds best with the microphones and equipment you have.

[Cheesecadet]

I generally run spaced omnis A-B anywhere from between 21" - 38" and I think they sound great most of the time.  I've also run Healy Method a couple times and likd the results as well FWIW

[ArchivalAudio]

thanx to all for the replies!

I guess what I am wondering still is that if caps are omnis, why would it matter where they are pointed?

Because omni microphones go directional at higher frequencies caused by the size of the body.

I suppose that I get the idea of "aiming" the caps at the stacks (PAS) for a more direct angle of incident to the caps.

This will give you full frequency response on-axis with reduces treble to the rear.

I do know some run the caps pointed straight up as well.

I have done this when I'm using diffuse-field omnis in  the near field.  In this case they would be too bright, so pointing them upwards means that the direct sound comes in at 90° and is a flatter response (this is clear if you study the polar-pattern of the microphone and compare it to the frequency response curve).

I also know omnis do sound best outdoors where there is minimal reflections.
I have heard great sounding FOB spaced omnis  indoors as well.

Omnis are great in both situations.

any further thoughts?  best way to point the caps?  180° sounds as good as any, or up should it or does it matter...

You use your ears and do what sounds best with the microphones and equipment you have.

John,

Thank you for addressing my questions, with solid answers... and basically confirming my thoughts.

I will try some different options and see what works, usually I'll be running a second (or third) set of mics that I can compare with and either blend with in post or have the choice between the other sources.

--Ian

[ArchivalAudio]

I do know some run the caps pointed straight up as well.

I have done this when I'm using diffuse-field omnis in  the near field.  In this case they would be too bright, so pointing them upwards means that the direct sound comes in at 90° and is a flatter response (this is clear if you study the polar-pattern of the microphone and compare it to the frequency response curve).

^^^ makes sense: As that would be similar to having someone sign or speak  across the top of a  cardioid mic to avoid proximity effect and sibilance. I have found this useful especially when someone is unfamiliar with mics, and end up with some popping and sibilance so I aim the mic more upward so their sound is going across the mic diaphragm. Maybe not at 90° but perhaps at 60°  or at least 45° this can work well in certain situations...

Thanx again
--Ian