Topic: Informal comp: Schoeps MK4v > NboxP & Milab VM44 > Naiant Tinybox

[ArchivalAudio]

Ok first off this is not a real scientific comp. it's not even authorized by both parties... 

Different flavors for different folks.

2 different rigs on same stand roughly same height.

I wanted to once again thank Craig T for the clamp space and being so friendly - Go Team Florida!
Notice I say mk4v's & (with the emphasis on AND) vm44's and it not one VS the other.
It's just an example of different pulls on the same show on the same stand.

It was a cold night at Jannus Live outdoors in St Petersburg FL.
2015-02-13 Friday night temps got to be about 40°F or lower by the end of the show.
YMSB
Yonder Mountain String Band | 2015-02-13 | Friday | Jannus Live | ST. Petersburg FL | Outdoor show
Center ~20' from stage / ~20’ in front of the Soundboard) ~ 6 feet up
2 separate sources with slightly different mastering.  Both sources with different mics and different pres to M-10's @ 24/28 DIN. Craig's MK4v's were slightly height then My V44's, which were maybe 1 inch lower and 5 inches in front of his mics.

FOB Audience Master info:
Milab VM-44-links DIN (20cm@90°) [no bodies] > Naiant(Milab)Tinybox > Sony M-10> 24bit/48khz)

 Schoeps mk4v (DIN)> NBox(P)> Sony PCM-M10 (24/48)

Both sound excellent! and are up on LMA. Each flavor has it's own unique sound.

Milab VM44: https://archive.org/details/ymsb2015-02-13.AA-VM44-fob

Schoeps MK4v: https://archive.org/details/ymsb2015-02-13.mk4v.taraszki.flac24

Tracking is slightly different.
Listen and enjoy.

--Ian

[Cobiwan]

I have to say that I like the Milab recording better, if only that it is much louder/clearer on first listen. I didn't try any real comparison, other than listening to one and pushing pause, and listening to the other.
Are you sure they are equal in gain levels/db (I didn't check)? I understand that they are two different mics, thru two different preamps, from same spot; just wanted to make sure that the levels were the same when recorded/processed.

[acidjack]

I listened on Audioengine A5+ monitors from a computer, so the necessary grain of salt to be taken.

Milabs are great mics for live recording, especially if you don't EQ your recordings. They're naturally bright and there's some emphasis in the upper mids IIRC that gives vocals a little more intelligibility (a similar feature of the MK4V, but I feel like the Milabs are more pronounced).

These neo-bluegrass bands, recorded from the audience, are difficult comparison sources for me, because they aren't especially bassy or demanding to begin with, and subject to a lot of environmental factors. Just my opinion, and in no way a suggestion that the comp isn't appreciated. It's just hard for me to make valid comparisons in terms of my own appreciation of it.

I'm not shocked that the Milab source is brighter and has clearer vocals, because that's exactly what the VM-44 Links are good at doing. In my own comps, I've found their raw output remarkably similar to the Schoeps MK41, which of course is a supercardiod vs a cardiod mic.

In any event, I obviously think MK4Vs are an outstanding mic for a variety of reasons, but especially for live recording from a distance, I would say the same of the Milabs. They're a great product, and the ability to run w/o bodies (?) via a TB makes them even more attractive.

Thanks for sharing.

[bombdiggity]

They are extremely different mics and this provides another good example of how different (this is more of a difference than I would have expected). 

A friend ran Milabs the last year at Cornerstone which I also attended, so I had a number of similar "unscientific" comps to listen to from a very wide range of music.  We were roughly the same distance though for various reasons he set up center and I set up by the board (aligned to one stack). 

The Milabs are very bright to my ear.  On careful listening (especially in good cans) I thought the highs from the Milab were a bit strained and did not sound quite real to me.  For other tastes, ears, and some specific situations they may be just the ticket though... 

YMWundoubtedlyV...   

[ArchivalAudio]

Unscientific. Both were mastered on different computers by different people and using different software, likely nothing was done the same.

I won't make any statements or judgements on how each combo sounds, yet ...

Again I'll state that they are different flavors, for different folks.

I think I may have the only Milab Tinybox ever made. Jon had my mics for quite awhile to test, and tobuild a box that could run the caps &  collettes  straight into the Tinybox without the VM44 bodies. I was hoping that this would be a TS project that would let others also jump on board . I think this may be the only Milab Tinybox set up out there, but I could be wrong. See photo:

Note bodies are included in pic for reference. they weigh more than the tinybox and are not needed.

[Mattias_Milab]

Thanks for posting this. I would be very interested to have a closer look at the VM-44 Link Tinybox. Maybe I'll have a chance to talk to Jon at a tradeshow sometime.

/Mattias

[Jhurlbs81]

Both recordings are excellent.  Thanks for the comp.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

As acidjack mentioned, we've run his MK41's next to my VM-44 Links several times at shows and, in non-critical/unscientific comps, I've been more surprised at the similarities between the raw pulls of the two mics than their differences.  Both are excellent microphones for the live recordings we do. 

Ian, I think you do have the only Milab Tinybox in existence.  I thought about pulling the trigger on one after seeing the pics of yours but missed the boat when Jon discontinued the line.  Anyway, thanks for putting these together: both recordings sound great! 

[ArchivalAudio]

As acidjack mentioned, we've run his MK41's next to my VM-44 Links several times at shows and, in non-critical/unscientific comps, I've been more surprised at the similarities between the raw pulls of the two mics than their differences.  Both are excellent microphones for the live recordings we do. 

Ian, I think you do have the only Milab Tinybox in existence.  I thought about pulling the trigger on one after seeing the pics of yours but missed the boat when Jon discontinued the line.  Anyway, thanks for putting these together: both recordings sound great!

I am hoping that perhaps Jon's new solutions in the future will include some kind of box / pre option. I know others would want to power the VM-44 link caps without the bodies and have a clean way to power caps and preamp to line out option.

[F.O.Bean]

I actually like the vm44 source better. Its fuller and more robust sounding! Both are excellent recordings, but if I had to choose just one, It'd be the Milabs

[F.O.Bean]

AA, what type of connectors are on your breakout cables coming from the TinyBox? Those dont look familiar to me at all

[ArchivalAudio]

AA, what type of connectors are on your breakout cables coming from the TinyBox? Those dont look familiar to me at all

Bean,  those are Milab 5 -pin connectors. They are tiny and is the one thing I don't like about the VM-44 links. My pair needed to be sent back to Sweeden (which to a few months) to fix them after I had them for a couple of months and used only a handful of times.Then Milab updated and upgraded their connections and have subsequently done this on all links. Jon may know the  actual name of thses tiny 5-pin connectors, I don't. The are small and a PITA to work with. I wish they used another option.

This was my Milab Tinybox order build:
   Blue case
    Channel offset trim
    Milab  55v
    Direct out via standard 3.5mm trs (mini plug)
    Gain settings -  0db  15db 30db
    one cable 4' long Milab mini 5pin plugs to 6-pin Mini-XLR  tinybox  connecto

[Popmarter]

AA, what type of connectors are on your breakout cables coming from the TinyBox? Those dont look familiar to me at all

Bean,  those are Milab 5 -pin connectors. They are tiny and is the one thing I don't like about the VM-44 links. My pair needed to be sent back to Sweeden (which to a few months) to fix them after I had them for a couple of months and used only a handful of times.Then Milab updated and upgraded their connections and have subsequently done this on all links. Jon may know the  actual name of thses tiny 5-pin connectors, I don't. The are small and a PITA to work with. I wish they used another option.

This was my Milab Tinybox order build:
   Blue case
    Channel offset trim
    Milab  55v
    Direct out via standard 3.5mm trs (mini plug)
    Gain settings -  0db  15db 30db
    one cable 4' long Milab mini 5pin plugs to 6-pin Mini-XLR  tinybox  connecto

Nice! Tinybox, could be something for me too. Are the 3 Gain settings working or would it be better to have some more settings? (like 0, 5, 10, 15). I'd like to keep the M10 on unity level (4/5).

I agree the 5pin plugs are fragile. I use tape on the bodies/cable connection.

[ArchivalAudio]

I've put some heavy duty Shrink tubing on top of my Milab connectors on the "collette" ends where they would plug into the bodies to help with the stain release.
I believe I decided on standard 3 gain positions: Gain settings -  0db  15db 30db   Most often I have run in the Mid or 15db gain position. - remember the bodies have a -10db switch for pre attenuation.. I have also run on 0 db or low. So far never on high gain of 30db, whihc is what Jon mentioned to me.

Unfortunately there are no further Tinyboxes in production, here's to hoping for another Naiant solution in the future.

[F.O.Bean]

AA, what type of connectors are on your breakout cables coming from the TinyBox? Those dont look familiar to me at all

Bean,  those are Milab 5 -pin connectors. They are tiny and is the one thing I don't like about the VM-44 links. My pair needed to be sent back to Sweeden (which to a few months) to fix them after I had them for a couple of months and used only a handful of times.Then Milab updated and upgraded their connections and have subsequently done this on all links. Jon may know the  actual name of thses tiny 5-pin connectors, I don't. The are small and a PITA to work with. I wish they used another option.

This was my Milab Tinybox order build:
   Blue case
    Channel offset trim
    Milab  55v
    Direct out via standard 3.5mm trs (mini plug)
    Gain settings -  0db  15db 30db
    one cable 4' long Milab mini 5pin plugs to 6-pin Mini-XLR  tinybox  connecto

Ahh, thanks for the info Ian And I agree, they look like a PITA to work with I LOVE my Binder connectors on my Schoeps. Very easy to use and are very reliable I just wish there was a waterproof connector on the market for what we do! The Binder/XLR/Mini XLR connectors aren't waterproof, so I have a weak piece in my NBob KCY cable about 18" from my collettes, where my cable breaks in half like a Schoeps KCY 250/05, but I can remedy the situation from water by wrapping it up around my rapid adapter. But Id frickin LOVE a waterproof connector that I could use there instead of the Binder, that could be used instead of having to wrap my NBob KCY up around my rapid adapter!

[ArchivalAudio]

Thanks for posting this. I would be very interested to have a closer look at the VM-44 Link Tinybox. Maybe I'll have a chance to talk to Jon at a tradeshow sometime.

/Mattias

Mattias,
If I were ever able to make it to a trade show I'd be happy to bring my vm44's and tinybox for you to look at. ~ maybe some day in the future
It would be excellent to meet you.
--Ian

[Mattias_Milab]

It would be great to meet you too Ian. It seems we have quite a few fans in the taper community and I'd be very interested to know what we can do to improve our products for your needs.

I'll be at the show in Frankfurt in a couple of weeks. The next US trade show will probably be AES in New York.

/Mattias

Thanks for posting this. I would be very interested to have a closer look at the VM-44 Link Tinybox. Maybe I'll have a chance to talk to Jon at a trade show sometime.

/Mattias

Mattias,
If I were ever able to make it to a trade show I'd be happy to bring my vm44's and tinybox for you to look at. ~ maybe some day in the future
It would be excellent to meet you.
--Ian