Topic: Just Out of Curiosity (Schoeps + 722/744 Content)

[Ed.]

one day i want schoeps, the next i want neumanns, two days later i want DPA's.

throw in MG's and i suffer from the same symptoms.

[Kevin Straker]

average schoeps user spent too much on the mics and can't afford the 722

Nah, that's just me. Most people just like a better preamp.

[Brian Skalinder]

they might both be -4dB down at 50Hz but, the AK43's go down all the way to 20Hz. the MK41's stop at 40Hz.

AK43s are subcardioids, MK41s are supercardioids, so to compare apples to apples we should really talk about AK43 v. MK21 and AK50 v. MK41:

sub / wide cardioids
AK43:  20 Hz - 20 kHz
MK21:  30 Hz - 20 kHz

hyper / super cardioids
AK50:  20 Hz - 20 kHz
MK41:  40 Hz - 20 kHz

Now, these are only the published frequency ranges for these mic caps.  It's a shame more manufacturers don't list the full frequeny range for their mics.  I guarantee the Schoeps caps don't just "stop" at 30 and 40Hz, respectively - I know because I've performed frequency analyses on recordings I've made.  What it really boils down to is that we have two manufacturers taking two different approaches to publishing their frequency response specs:

• Schoeps doesn't list the full range for the caps (20Hz - 20kHz), but does publish the freq response graph.  I suspect they don't list the full (20Hz - 20kHz) range because they want the frequency response graphs to appear as flat as possible, and showing the graph all the way down to 20 Hz would appear less flat.
• Neumann lists the full range (20Hz - 20kHz), but doesn't publish graphs.  They've taken the opposite marketing approach:  look how low are mics go in frequency response!  (By the way, we're not going to tell you what a drastic slope there is below 30-40Hz).

Based on the specs published by the manufacturers, it's impossible to know which provides better low frequency response.  Do the Schoeps roll off more steeply than their Neumann counterparts?  I don't know since I cannot find full frequency response graphs from Neumann and Schoeps.  But I suspect they both slope off fairly significantly below 30Hz (for sub/wid) or 40Hz (for hyper/super).  Based on recordings I've heard, I bet the AK50s slope off more than the MK41s.  No idea on the subcards, as I haven't heard or used the AK43s.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Brian, the neumannusa site has frequency response graphs.  http://www.neumann.com/infopool/mics/produkte.php?ProdID=km100 and click on "diagrams".

I know that the MK41 vs AK34 is not a perfect comparison, but all I have to go on for schoeps>722 is the Fox Panic recordings so I drew from the MK41 charts.

The AK50s do have a damn steep dropoff.  I had AK50s for a few years and I almost went to the schoeps because I lusted after the MK41s.  But in the end I decided to stay with the AK40 and AK43 and just work to get into position where I didn't need hypers.

[Brian Skalinder]

Brian, the neumannusa site has frequency response graphs. http://www.neumann.com/infopool/mics/produkte.php?ProdID=km100 and click on "diagrams".

Ahhh...nice!  Thanks for the link, missed 'em somehow - I think because I went straight to the AKx page instead of the KM100 page.

But in the end I decided to stay with the AK40 and AK43 and just work to get into position where I didn't need hypers.

A wise choice! 

[Brian]

they might both be -4dB down at 50Hz but, the AK43's go down all the way to 20Hz. the MK41's stop at 40Hz.

AK43s are subcardioids, MK41s are supercardioids, so to compare apples to apples.........

thanks.  i said that already but i decided to continue the discussion anyway 

at any rate.  it's interesting to compare the specs.  I personally think specs say a lot more than others around here think they do, but i guess you could call me a spec geek when it comes to gear.

bottom line.  they are all great microphones

[BC]

at any rate.  it's interesting to compare the specs.  I personally think specs say a lot more than others around here think they do, but i guess you could call me a

I am a spec geek too, but I totally agree that the spec #'s can be misleading. AK50 20-20KHz? Ok, maybe 20 dB down at 20Hz!     Those suckers are SO SO bright to my ears. The MK41 has the nicest low end to my ears of all the hyper caps out there, definitely my fave hyper, with the MG 210 right behind. Just thinking out loud...

[jacallery]

If you are real nice to the guys in Germany, you can special order schoeps bodies and caps that like to go into the lower Hz range

there is a difference.

[Brian Skalinder]

If you are real nice to the guys in Germany, you can special order schoeps bodies and caps that like to go into the lower Hz range

there is a difference.

These?

CMC “linear”

(Formerly marked with a dash.)
CMC microphone amplifiers normally have a gradual rolloff below 30 Hz (20 Hz in the CMC 6) to guard against infrasonic disturbances from various sources such as air movement and vibration. However, when using pressure (omnidirectional) transducers, particularly with digital recording, it can be desirable to pick up frequencies below 20 Hz without attenuation. The special technology of the CMC microphone amplifiers makes this possible; on request we can deliver microphone amplifiers with response that is flat to as low as 3 Hz.

Caution must be advised with respect to infrasonics, however. Since pressure transducers can pick up very low frequencies, ventilation systems in large spaces (churches, concert halls) can create a problem. With pressure gradient transducers the risk is even greater. They are far less sensitive to very low frequency sound, but respond much more strongly to unwanted low-frequency stimuli such as air currents and solid-borne noise. Although such signals may be below the audible range of frequencies, they can overload electronic circuitry and produce severe distortion.

[jacallery]

that would be the bodies, even though 3Hz seems too low, it is worth it. A difference can certainly be heard from the regular cmc6 bodies, esp when using the 41 caps, which tend to have capture less bass than other caps.  You do have to watch for air conditioning rumble or ceiling fans blowing air on the caps.  It shows up much worse than on regualr cmc6's.
On the low Hz caps , I have never ordered any, but I know someone who has, some years ago.  I actually use these "special" 41 caps occasionally and seems to my ears their is a difference in the low end.
I have never done a comparison though.  I'd like to.

[Joe w.]

i've run schoeps > 722 dozens of times....so has william boswell and jim pollock. run it with the neumann's quite a bit as well.

Weren't those Panic-Fox Theater shows recorded with MK41s>M248>722?  I haven't listened to them in a while but I remember that they are very warm.  Those MK41s have much less bass rolloff than the AK43s.  The AK43 tapes I've made sound more even.  To the purest, that is probably an indictment of both the AK43 and the 722 ;-)

those were my recordings. I thought they were a little bright to be honest. I ran 41v's>148>722 the 3rd night and the 148 warmed things up nicely. Now, mk4>248>722 would be very nice.

[Mic D]

I've been enjoying my Schoeps>v2>722 rig quite nicely, but most of my pulls have been straight schoeps>722 (which I've also been pleased with). I'll transfer/seed more eventually.

[Tim]

i've run schoeps > 722 dozens of times....so has william boswell and jim pollock. run it with the neumann's quite a bit as well.

Weren't those Panic-Fox Theater shows recorded with MK41s>M248>722? I haven't listened to them in a while but I remember that they are very warm. Those MK41s have much less bass rolloff than the AK43s. The AK43 tapes I've made sound more even. To the purest, that is probably an indictment of both the AK43 and the 722 ;-)

those were my recordings. I thought they were a little bright to be honest. I ran 41v's>148>722 the 3rd night and the 148 warmed things up nicely. Now, mk4>248>722 would be very nice.

d00d - you thought those were bright? I must need my ears cleaned then

btw - taking good care of your discs, I'll get em back to you next week

[Joe w.]

i've run schoeps > 722 dozens of times....so has william boswell and jim pollock. run it with the neumann's quite a bit as well.

Weren't those Panic-Fox Theater shows recorded with MK41s>M248>722? I haven't listened to them in a while but I remember that they are very warm. Those MK41s have much less bass rolloff than the AK43s. The AK43 tapes I've made sound more even. To the purest, that is probably an indictment of both the AK43 and the 722 ;-)

those were my recordings. I thought they were a little bright to be honest. I ran 41v's>148>722 the 3rd night and the 148 warmed things up nicely. Now, mk4>248>722 would be very nice.

d00d - you thought those were bright? I must need my ears cleaned then

btw - taking good care of your discs, I'll get em back to you next week

no worries, take your time. Hope you enjoy that video. 

[Tim]

that place is literally right up the street from me, I live on Ogden Street