Topic: stupid question

[Tim]

My new speaker cables just arrived and they came with some banana plugs for the speaker end that I want to put on...

the plugs look like these


am I correct in that I should unscrew the base, feed the cable through the hole in the bottom of the base until it is poking out the other side and then screw the base back into the rest of the plug?

I've always just used bare wire so these crazy banana plugs have me confused

fwiw - these were custom built for me by Leegeddy, I can't recommend doing business with him enough...

[ducati]

That looks about right.  I don't like terminations that aren't soldered, though--you might want to go search for a solder-on plug or just tin your ends.

[Tim]

thanks!

+T in 12

[leegeddy]

That looks about right.  I don't like terminations that aren't soldered, though--you might want to go search for a solder-on plug or just tin your ends.

ime, i like bare metal touching bare wires.  that's the purest contact you can have.  i always run my speaker wires with bare wires crimped (not soldered) to spades or banana plugs for the cleanest connection.

marc
 

[Tim]

that's the same logic that led me to always use bare wire...

[leegeddy]

that's the same logic that led me to always use bare wire...

a co-winky-dink? i think not

marc

[BCostigan]

Are these made with the the same cable as the bumble bees?  I want pics!!   I've been using some 14ga OFC  monster cable but think it's about time for some better speaker cables.   

[ducati]

Why lessen the contact area by crimping only?

If you're building an amp, or any electronic project for that matter, you don't just crimp the wires and leave them--you solder.  Why?  You get better contact.

If you only crimp, you are lessening the contact area to the termination.  The termination's job is to present a wide contact surface to the amplifier/speakers/whatever.  This is why some people like spades over all else--they have more contact area than bananas or bare wire.

Even if I use bare wire (which I do on my budget office hifi) I tin the ends.  In my experience, this gives slightly better performance as well as protecting against oxidation, which is a MAJOR reason for sonic degradation of contacts.  This is also why all terminations are gold/rhodium/whatever--to prevent oxidation. 

If you don't tin your ends, cut a few inches off the ends and re-attach.  You will hear a sonic difference!!

[scervin]

What about oxidation?  Do you snip off part of the cable as years pass?  I use banana plugs only on the amp side for ease of use more than anything.  Spades on the speakers with no solder as you need to have a really good solder job and I'm messy as the RC cars don't need clean joints  

[Tim]

Are these made with the the same cable as the bumble bees? I want pics!! I've been using some 14ga OFC monster cable but think it's about time for some better speaker cables.

yep!

pics to come, the batts in my camera died last night

[BCostigan]

Why lessen the contact area by crimping only?

If you're building an amp, or any electronic project for that matter, you don't just crimp the wires and leave them--you solder.  Why?  You get better contact.

If you only crimp, you are lessening the contact area to the termination.  The termination's job is to present a wide contact surface to the amplifier/speakers/whatever.  This is why some people like spades over all else--they have more contact area than bananas or bare wire.

Even if I use bare wire (which I do on my budget office hifi) I tin the ends.  In my experience, this gives slightly better performance as well as protecting against oxidation, which is a MAJOR reason for sonic degradation of contacts.  This is also why all terminations are gold/rhodium/whatever--to prevent oxidation. 

If you don't tin your ends, cut a few inches off the ends and re-attach.  You will hear a sonic difference!!

I use compression (crimp) connectors all the time doing electrical work with no tinning etc.  A crimp connector is about as good as it gets if done properly.  Tinning the ends also doesn't allow the cable to fully "smush" under the compression lug as it would if it were bare.  If the wire is bare the individual strands are allowed to fan out underneath the screw maximizing contact/surface area....which is what we all want. 

If you do solder I would at least use a high quality silver solder.  What's the point of high end cables only to tin the contacts with crappy solder?


One last point.  No oxidation will take place *WHERE IT MATTERS*.  The conductor cannot oxidize where there is solid contact (good contact means no air...no air means no oxidization).  It may oxidize where there is no contact with the spade, banana, etc but at the point of contact there will be NO oxidization.   If you have an old pair of copper cables and can look at the connection points the bare bare copper will be oxidized everywhere EXCEPT the points making good conact...they will still look shiny and new (same goes for silver).


I agree tinning is great for making sure things don't come apart but IMHO that's where the benefit ends and to me is not worth it.

[Tim]

thanks Brian, good stuff

+T

[BCostigan]

That's the stuff right there.     

[leegeddy]

Why lessen the contact area by crimping only?

If you're building an amp, or any electronic project for that matter, you don't just crimp the wires and leave them--you solder.  Why?  You get better contact.

If you only crimp, you are lessening the contact area to the termination.  The termination's job is to present a wide contact surface to the amplifier/speakers/whatever.  This is why some people like spades over all else--they have more contact area than bananas or bare wire.

Even if I use bare wire (which I do on my budget office hifi) I tin the ends.  In my experience, this gives slightly better performance as well as protecting against oxidation, which is a MAJOR reason for sonic degradation of contacts.  This is also why all terminations are gold/rhodium/whatever--to prevent oxidation. 

If you don't tin your ends, cut a few inches off the ends and re-attach.  You will hear a sonic difference!!

I use compression (crimp) connectors all the time doing electrical work with no tinning etc.  A crimp connector is about as good as it gets if done properly.  Tinning the ends also doesn't allow the cable to fully "smush" under the compression lug as it would if it were bare.  If the wire is bare the individual strands are allowed to fan out underneath the screw maximizing contact/surface area....which is what we all want. 

If you do solder I would at least use a high quality silver solder.  What's the point of high end cables only to tin the contacts with crappy solder?


One last point.  No oxidation will take place *WHERE IT MATTERS*.  The conductor cannot oxidize where there is solid contact (good contact means no air...no air means no oxidization).  It may oxidize where there is no contact with the spade, banana, etc but at the point of contact there will be NO oxidization.   If you have an old pair of copper cables and can look at the connection points the bare bare copper will be oxidized everywhere EXCEPT the points making good conact...they will still look shiny and new (same goes for silver).


I agree tinning is great for making sure things don't come apart but IMHO that's where the benefit ends and to me is not worth it.

good info bc;

i use a hex crimper that will make a very solid crimp to maximize surface area contact for spades. 

for the bananas, bare wires will have MORE surface area than a soldered one.

marc

[ducati]

I do not agree that crimping is as good as a good soldered joint.  If it were, I wouldn't have been taught soldering in electronics classes, I would have been taught crimping 

In my experience, no matter how hard you crimp, no matter how hard you tighten that post on bare wire, oxidation happens. Crimp then solder.  It doesn't hurt a thing to finish the job.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.