Topic: Thinking of hot rodding a compnent DAT player....

[Invisible]

The company I work with manufactures high-end tube gear and solid state home theater components. We have two lines of equipment. One is our flagship line, then we have a second line that runs under a different moniker. Both are manufactured here, in the same place, by the same people. We offer several substantial upgrades as far as internal components go for our secondary line and I was thinking of handing over my DA-20MKII to our lead tech to see what he could replace internally to produce a higher quality output. You would be amazed at what simple, higher quality capacitors and diodes can do.

I no longer tape shows, but still have my entire DAT collection that I listen to regularly. I wanted to check and see if anyone was interested in knowing about the progress of this venture and might be interested in the results. If it were to all go well, I would love to report the findings to those who may be interested in doing this to their own gear.

Just thought I would check interest. 

[Krispy D]

F#$K yeah!

I love me a good DIY project that ends up in better sounding gear!

let er rip googoo~

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

The company I work with manufactures high-end tube gear and solid state home theater components. We have two lines of equipment. One is our flagship line, then we have a second line that runs under a different moniker. Both are manufactured here, in the same place, by the same people. We offer several substantial upgrades as far as internal components go for our secondary line and I was thinking of handing over my DA-20MKII to our lead tech to see what he could replace internally to produce a higher quality output. You would be amazed at what simple, higher quality capacitors and diodes can do.

I no longer tape shows, but still have my entire DAT collection that I listen to regularly. I wanted to check and see if anyone was interested in knowing about the progress of this venture and might be interested in the results. If it were to all go well, I would love to report the findings to those who may be interested in doing this to their own gear.

Just thought I would check interest. 

Sounds interesting, but I'd bet you'd get better mileage out of hot-rodding a DAC (plus it's somewhat more versatile).  If you use the digital out it's all just 1's and 0's, not too mention I'd rather transfer my tapes to a more disposable format (cd-r or dvd-r disk).  Tapes can shed, allignment, heads and general repairs aren't cheap.   If you're playing copies/clones maybe, but I wouldn't use masters for playback just for that reason.

The Boulder modded ART DI/O is a good example. 

How is the DAC in the Tascam?  If there are better inexpensive DAC's out there, I'd rather see one of those upgraded, a modded DAT deck would be more of a novelty imo (but a cool one).

[Invisible]

I think you're missing my point here. As far as the novelty issue is concerned; this is not something that is planned to be mass produced or sold. I am interested in trying it on my personal unit because it's free and to me and is an interesting idea. I planned on offering up the results to anyone, who like me, enjoys doing this type of thing. I am doing this because I do not have any other source units that would need any performance modification. This is strictly for fun. I'm not really seeking constructive critisism on the idea. 

I do not use any outboard DAC with my source components, nor do I not use the digital out in the Tascam or on any other source devices I use. This is definitely one region for upgrade with the Tascam as far as I am concerned. Also I guess it should be mentioned that DAT playback in my  two-channel system in very seldom. All of the masters I have have been transferred to disc for regular use, which still barely get listened to.


"Tapes can shed, allignment, heads and general repairs aren't cheap."



Yes, this is true and I am quite aware of all of this. Tape will, in fact, shed over time, but not near enough to make me consider not playing my masters. In my personal experiences, you would really have to play them quite excessively for this to occur. I personally got my start in the audio industry through studio engineering. There was no such thing as digital back-ups and everything was recording to 2" 24 track analog tape. Before the days of digital editing came along, master reels were cut with a razor blade and spliced backed together with scotch tape for a seemless edit. These masters were then played back on Studer decks repeatedly for years after. Don't put too much emphasis on the fragility of analog tape. It is quite resiliant.


The DAC in the Tascam is garbage. That is part of what makes this project interesting to me.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

I think you're missing my point here. As far as the novelty issue is concerned; this is not something that is planned to be mass produced or sold. I am interested in trying it on my personal unit because it's free and to me and is an interesting idea. I planned on offering up the results to anyone, who like me, enjoys doing this type of thing. I am doing this because I do not have any other sources units that would need any performance modification. This is strictly for fun. I'm not really seeking constructive critisism on the idea. 

1. state or quality of being novel, new, or unique; newness: the novelty of a new job. 

Mass produced?  I don't think I'm missing your point.

I sincerely appologize for any constructive criticism. 

I do not use any outboard DAC with my source components, nor do I not use the digital out in the Tascam or on any other source devices I use. This is one region for upgrade with the Tascam as far as I am concerned. Also it should be mentioned that DAT playback in my  two-channel system in very seldom. All of the masters I have have been transferred to disc for regular use.

Perhaps you should look into a DAC... 

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Yes, this is true and I am quite aware of all of this. Tape will shed over time, but not near enough to make me consider not playing my masters. In my experiences, you would have to play them quite excessively for this to occur. I got my start in the audio industry through studio  engineering. There was no such thing as digital back-ups and everything was recording to 2" 24 track analog tape. Before the days of digital editing, master reels were cut with a razor blade and spliced backed together with scotch tape for a seemless edit. These masters were then played back on Studer decks repeatedly for years after. Don't put too much emphasis on the fragility of analog tape. It is quite resiliant.

Well DAT is digital tape... I've had a tape mis-load it wasn't all that resilliant.

The DAC in the Tascam is garbage. That is part of what makes this project interesting to me.

The DAC is a good place to start.  How would you go about upgrading the DAC?

[Invisible]

Well DAT is digital tape... I've had a tape mis-load it wasn't all that resilliant.

Digital tape and analog tape are the exact same thing. There is actually no difference what-so-ever between them, only what media is stored on them.

The DAC is a good place to start.  How would you go about upgrading the DAC?

The DAC chip would have to replaced entirely.


I am honestly trying to be of value in the playback section of this site but can't seem to escape the message board one-uping and chest-puffing. I do apologize for ruffling feathers and I'll go back into lurk mode.



-EDIT-

My response was written before the "rolling eyes" emoticon and others had been deleted from your posts.     

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Well DAT is digital tape... I've had a tape mis-load it wasn't all that resilliant.

Digital tape and analog tape are the exact same thing. There is no difference what-so-ever between them only what media is stored on them.


I am honestly trying to be of value in the playback section of this site but can't seem to escape the message board one-uping and chest-puffing. I'll go back into lurk mode.

Seriously, I found it interesting, but if you have this hard of a time with normal conversation you might be better off...

 

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

My response was written before the "rolling eyes" emoticon and others had been deleted from your posts.

OK, I put them back for historical accuracy.

[BC]

If I were interested in getting higher quality analog output from a DAT player, an external DAC would be my first choice.

That way it could be used to wring higher quality sound from a variety of digital sources, not just that specific DAT player.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

The DAC is a good place to start.  How would you go about upgrading the DAC?

The DAC chip would have to replaced entirely.

OK, so now you added this in your last edit, we're getting somwhere...

What type of chips have you thought about using?  

What components would you replace in the signal path?  

What other modifications might you perform?

[Invisible]

Seriously, I found it interesting, but if you have this hard of a time with normal conversation you might be better off...

 

Honestly, to me your second reply didn't start out as normal conversation. I spend a lot of time on the phone everyday with customers and a lot of time responding to inquires and technical support issues and am a pretty good conversationalist. Especially when it comes to gear. I'm all for sharing knowledge and helping the next guy as much as I can. I am not though, into internet pissing matches which is where this seemed to be quickly heading. Due to my position and line of work, I spend a lot of time on hi-fi boards helping people make equipment decisions. I really have not run into these type of responses elsewhere.

I would be more than happy to keep you and anyone else updated on this. Basically, this is purely for fun. Just for sheer boredom and the hell of it. I'm not trying to justify this as the next great thing for any reason. Just randomly posted my thougts on something I thought would be a fun project. I'm not really looking to get into a great debate on wether or not I'd be better off doing this to another source device for more practicality. I'm sorry we misunderstood each other.

[Invisible]

OK, so now you added this in your last edit, we're getting somwhere...

What type of chips have you thought about using?  

What components would you replace in the signal path?  

What other modifications might you perform?

See, this is wehere my knowledge unfortuantely falls short. We can talk gear all day (and during the week, I do)  but I am not sure exactly where in the signal chain higher quality diodes, oil-filled Jensen capacitors and other components come into play. This is what I will be asking our lead tech and QC guys when we get a chance on a slow day to open it up and see what is possilbe. Hope that makes sense...

[Invisible]

If I were interested in getting higher quality analog output from a DAT player, an external DAC would be my first choice.

That way it could be used to wring higher quality sound from a variety of digital sources, not just that specific DAT player.

Agreed 100%. That's just not what I'm trying to do. I would buy an outboard DAC in a heartbeat for this reason, believe me, 2 channel is my passion. That defeats the whole purpose of doing this though. I am intending to upgrade just the analog section of the unit to see the results. Im not trying to make this an integral part of my playback system, just doing it for the pure hell of it. I figured there would be some DIY tweakers that may be interested in the results. I really could care less if the Tascam fell of the test bench and broke in half. I am just trying to attempt a little DIY project.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

OK, so now you added this in your last edit, we're getting somwhere...

What type of chips have you thought about using?  

What components would you replace in the signal path?  

What other modifications might you perform?

See, this is wehere my knowledge unfortuantely falls short. We can talk gear all day (and during the week, I do)  but I am not sure exactly where in the signal chain higher quality diodes, oil-filled Jensen capacitors and other components come into play. This is what I will be asking our lead tech and QC guys when we get a chance on a slow day to open it up and see what is possilbe. Hope that makes sense...

Don't be too upset if your lead tech suggests an external DAC as opposed to modifying the Tascam's DAC and signal path, he's only trying to be helpful.

It's possible, it might not be practical, but don't let that deter you from at least exploring the possibilities.

[BC]

If I were interested in getting higher quality analog output from a DAT player, an external DAC would be my first choice.

That way it could be used to wring higher quality sound from a variety of digital sources, not just that specific DAT player.

Agreed 100%. That's just not what I'm trying to do. I would buy an outboard DAC in a heartbeat for this reason, believe me, 2 channel is my passion. That defeats the whole purpose of doing this though. I am intending to upgrade just the analog section of the unit to see the results. Im not trying to make this an integral part of my playback system, just doing it for the pure hell of it. I figured there would be some DIY tweakers that may be interested in the results. I really could care less if the Tascam fell of the test bench and broke in half. I am just trying to attempt a little DIY project.

I hear ya, good luck on your pet project!

[Invisible]

Don't be too upset if your lead tech suggests an external DAC as opposed to modifying the Tascam's DAC and signal path, he's only trying to be helpful.

It's possible, it might not be practical, but don't let that deter you from at least exploring the possibilities.

That would of course be the most logical step and pretty much the easiest thing to do, but that's not what I am after in all this. I've mentioned all of this to him and he knows that's not what I'm trying to do.

We are really paying too much attention to this topic though. It's very much second hand to me and not nearly as serious as this thread has made it out to be.    Sorry everyone!  I've been banished to my office due to the batchelorette (sp?) party going on at my house tonight. So I've just been catching up on some e-mails and posting a few random ideas here. I think they have just left to go out for the evening so I am free to enjoy my own house again!

[Invisible]

I hear ya, good luck on your pet project!

Thanks!