Topic: Integrateds vs Pre ~> Power

[run_run_run]

I am looking over allot of stuff on audiogon, I am wondering what peoples opinions are on  Integrate vs a pre and a power unit. 

[Nick's Picks]

i dont have an opinion of one over the other.  both setups kick ass.
less ICs w/an integrated.
I like the simplicity of an integrated too. 

[carlbeck]

I think one thing against the integrated is that they do not "usually" have the same current capabilities as a single amp. This may not be important with a small speaker or higher efficiancy speakers but if you have hard to drive speakers it will certainly come into play. I feel current & quality is better than just WPC.

I run an integrated at the moment & love the simplicity but I am not so sure I wouldn't be better off with a dedicated amp & pre-amp set up like I have had in the past.

[Nick's Picks]

there are good integrated, and bad.  just like not all amps are equal.  you often get what you pay for.
I wouldnt go as far as saying that high-current signals are only found in separate amps though.

case in point, the 50wpc class A Mambo..., current up the wazoo.

[muj]

I am looking over allot of stuff on audiogon, I am wondering what peoples opinions are on  Integrate vs a pre and a power unit. 

get high efficiency speakers and then a integrated. i like the simplicity of an integrated.the hard part is choosing either ss or Tubes.

[Nick's Picks]

to really do it right...
find an integrated w/a nice DAC as well.

to keep fluffing the Music Hall line, the mambo and maven have bur-brown based 24/96 DACs over two inputs.
then there is that fancy new Bel Canto 300iu or something along those lines.  that sucker is ICEpower based, 250wpc @ 8ohms and has a built in DAC and USB input.  It would be my first "go to" in an integrated right now.  I like killing many birds with single stones.

[carlbeck]

to really do it right...
find an integrated w/a nice DAC as well.

to keep fluffing the Music Hall line, the mambo and maven have bur-brown based 24/96 DACs over two inputs.
then there is that fancy new Bel Canto 300iu or something along those lines.  that sucker is ICEpower based, 250wpc @ 8ohms and has a built in DAC and USB input.  It would be my first "go to" in an integrated right now.  I like killing many birds with single stones.

This from the guy who just started running his first pair of mono's & realizes the increased soundstage & dynamics 

[muj]

to really do it right...
find an integrated w/a nice DAC as well.

to keep fluffing the Music Hall line, the mambo and maven have bur-brown based 24/96 DACs over two inputs.
then there is that fancy new Bel Canto 300iu or something along those lines.  that sucker is ICEpower based, 250wpc @ 8ohms and has a built in DAC and USB input.  It would be my first "go to" in an integrated right now.  I like killing many birds with single stones.

yup--the bel canto has caught my interest ...small foot print as well.

[Nick's Picks]

Carl...
I think that improvement in my system might have something to do w/replacing a $800 integrated with $2200 monos?
not exactly apples and apples.  Now, if I had been coming from a stratos extreme...,

[carlbeck]

Maybe but you were coming from the same mfr. I would bet you would have the same results if you did switch from the stratos. My point is that there are comprimises in most if not all integrateds/one box solution, usually in the pre amp stage. But my point more specifically (especially in your case Nick) is that there is no way that the mfr. can stuff the same size power supply in the integrated as they can in a amplifier or even better a pair of mono's. Sure the design is "similiar" but there is much more real estate available in a dedicated amp or pair of mono's.

[Nick's Picks]

I suppose that there are "no comprimise" integrateds out there.  Like the BAT...for example. 
but as far as going as "BIG" as you can, seperates will always be the badder-ass combo.

if the sky's the limit.

I still dont think the cyclops vs stratos monos is a fair comparrison.  they share signiture Odyssey sound, but that is all.  these amps are just bigger/badder...and thus sound better.

You should have heard them yesterday w/the Tempest.  Much different sounding than the modwrong.  couldn't tell if it was better or not, just unique.
3D Winwood !!

[carlbeck]

Also when you get a chance, check out the current delivery & damping factor for your amps, trust me on this, that is why they sound so damn good!

http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products.html

[Sanjay]

I'm a huge fan of my Music Hall Mambo integrated.  My system is on the cheaper end of some people's on here, but it suits me fine.  The Mambo paired with a decent transport and good speakers sounds like heaven to me.  I usually dislike the solid state sound, but the mambo is warm enough to be very pleasing yet detailed to me, whereas most ss or tubes are either on one end of the extreme or the other.   It was a very affordable used integrated.  I wouldn't go to seperates, too much hassle, plus real estate is at a premium in my city apt and I don't want to take up a wall with my stereo.

[run_run_run]

pretty

[Nick's Picks]

+ T for Mambo owners!

[Stagger]

For me, a large part if my choice to go with separates was flexibility in future upgrades. As I am sure Nick will agree, the AES Symphonies is a killer little pre and favorably competes with pres 2-3 times it's cost. While I like my Rogue and have happily lived with it for 2.5 years, I won't rule out going to SS mono blocks in the future. With an integrated I'd basically be starting from scratch as far as the sound goes. I love the sound of my pre and am in no rush to change it. I guess the best way to think about it in taper terms is if you are looking for Schoeps, do you get CCM4's or MK4>KC5>CMC6? The former is certainly easier to deal with and when you add the cost of caps, actives and bodies, they are probably cheeper but you have the option of swapping out the caps on the CMC6 while still keeping a very basic element of the sound.

[Stagger]

For me, a large part if my choice to go with separates was flexibility in future upgrades. As I am sure Nick will agree, the AES Symphonies is a killer little pre and favorably competes with pres 2-3 times it's cost. While I like my Rogue and have happily lived with it for 2.5 years, I won't rule out going to SS mono blocks in the future. With an integrated I'd basically be starting from scratch as far as the sound goes. I love the sound of my pre and am in no rush to change it. I guess the best way to think about it in taper terms is if you are looking for Schoeps, do you get CCM4's or MK4>KC5>CMC6? The former is certainly easier to deal with and when you add the cost of caps, actives and bodies, they are probably cheeper but you have the option of swapping out the caps on the CMC6 while still keeping a very basic element of the sound.