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Author Topic: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3  (Read 99889 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #240 on: October 18, 2022, 10:15:26 AM »
I installed the latest F8 firmware and bluetooth support along with the Android F8 Control app on my phone just prior to a fest this past weekend.  Cool to be able to monitor levels on the phone, yet I ended up not using it. Didn't really need it and didn't want to screw anything up.  Need to play around with it some more to determine its usefulness.

Biggest problem noted so far: I wish it allowed for bluetooth connection and disconnection while already recording simply to check levels and settings.  Seems it is only able connect prior to recording.  In addition I am not sure that while bluetooth connected all necessary controls on the recorder remain available and override phone control.
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Offline Phil Zone

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #241 on: January 08, 2023, 12:03:14 PM »
Does anyone know the weight of the F8N pro without batteries in it? The manual and any specs I find are 1200g with batteries installed.


I am trying to decide between this or the mix pre 10... This one seems much better for the price.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #242 on: January 08, 2023, 12:56:21 PM »
Kitchen scale indicates my original F8 (blue, pre N, pre Pro) with lightweight Energizer lithiums installed as backup, weighs 1095g.  The external Tallentcell battery (YB12011000-USB) I use to power it weighs 500g, but is larger than necessary and will run the rig for days.  A smaller external of half the size would do fine for most things if size and weight is a concern.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #243 on: January 08, 2023, 01:25:02 PM »
For additional reference, DR680mk2 weighs 1258g with backup Energizer lithiums in it.  F8 is smaller than DR680, but splits inputs between left and right sides (4 each) rather than having them all on the left.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Phil Zone

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #244 on: January 08, 2023, 03:55:37 PM »
For additional reference, DR680mk2 weighs 1258g with backup Energizer lithiums in it.  F8 is smaller than DR680, but splits inputs between left and right sides (4 each) rather than having them all on the left.

Thank you for the info, very helpful!
Microphones: AKG 460B, 480B, Naiant Actives,CK1,CK61,CK62,CK63, CK69, Busman BSC-1, CA-14
Preamps: Naiant Littlebox, Naiant Tinyhead
Recorders: Zoom F6, Tascam DR-05

LMA Shows: http://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Cam%20Keough%22&sort=-date

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #245 on: January 09, 2023, 09:34:30 AM »
I think you have been using DR-680 as I was previous to moving to the F8.  F8 is a nice upgrade from DR-680 in most categories with a few caveats which may or may not matter to you,  These are the ones which most effect my use:

1) No digital in/out.
2) Built-in M/S decoding on playback is somewhat wonky. It decodes properly to L/R but with no way to adjust level or ratio of the pair on playback. Recording gains determine subsequent output level and ratio.
3) Channel ganging input channels for gain adjustment using a single knob turn is less constrained in selection (can include any set of inputs, not just adjacent channels), but more constrained in that all ganged channels are forced to the identical gain setting (ganged channels can't have different gains).
4) Only 4chs of analog output (6 if counting headphone out).

Couple usage suggestions:
1) Add digital gain to the headphone output (option is in the menu)
2) Don't fear the advanced limiter, it is very good.  I rarely engaged limiters on my recorders in the past yet keep the F8's advanced limiter engaged at all times as safety (may not be as relevant if recording in 32bit float)
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Phil Zone

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #246 on: January 10, 2023, 05:38:16 PM »
Thank you Gutbucket for all the great info above!

I have another question for you. If you could do it all over again would you get the F8 over the F6? I'll never do 8 channels...

Drawbacks for me about the F6 are: weird form factor, not a great power options with only USB and no Bluetooth app control natively. Also the F8 seems more robust, but I baby my gear either way.

On the good side though it's way smaller and lighter and it's considerably cheaper...

The form factor and power are the main reason l like the f8 everything I do is all 12v.

Are the F6 and F8 preamps the same? Are they good enough for me to question leaving my Naiant Little boxes at home?

Thanks!
Microphones: AKG 460B, 480B, Naiant Actives,CK1,CK61,CK62,CK63, CK69, Busman BSC-1, CA-14
Preamps: Naiant Littlebox, Naiant Tinyhead
Recorders: Zoom F6, Tascam DR-05

LMA Shows: http://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Cam%20Keough%22&sort=-date

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #247 on: January 10, 2023, 06:49:11 PM »
I do need the 8 channels. Doing it again I'd go F8N or F8Npro, because unlike the legacy F8 which requires TRS for line-level input, they allow a line-level input via XLR, with or without phantom.

I've not used the F6. I think it uses the same preamps, which I like a lot (transparently clean) and felt were a noticeable improvement over those in the DR-680, which were fine.  Others like the F6 and I do like small and light, but much prefer both the build and form factor of the F8.  If you only need 4 channels you might consider the F4 which has the identical form factor, and presumably powering as F8.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #248 on: January 10, 2023, 07:46:28 PM »

Drawbacks for me about the F6 are: weird form factor, not a great power options with only USB and no Bluetooth app control natively. Also the F8 seems more robust, but I baby my gear either way.

The form factor and power are the main reason l like the f8 everything I do is all 12v.

F6 user here. I understand it may be a drag that the F6 doesn't have 12V input, but I think NP-F batteries are the best way to power it. I use 6600 mAh Dracast batteries, and they run 6 channels phantom over 14 hours, and can be hot swapped while recording. The fact that the F8 does not have an NP-F battery option is a point against it for me. Different strokes, I guess.
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Offline RyanJ

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #249 on: May 03, 2023, 01:43:59 PM »
Question for F8 users..

How do you monitor the channels with headphones? When I go in to the monitor parameters, what is the difference between pre/post? I assume what it exactly means. Pre is before levels are adjusted and post is what is being recorded?

Although I got this a year ago. I have only used it twice. Thanks!
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Offline hoserama

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #250 on: May 03, 2023, 05:18:40 PM »
Question for F8 users..

How do you monitor the channels with headphones? When I go in to the monitor parameters, what is the difference between pre/post? I assume what it exactly means. Pre is before levels are adjusted and post is what is being recorded?

Although I got this a year ago. I have only used it twice. Thanks!

I have my headphone routing just sending the L/R to headphones. Have it sent to the headphone 1/4" output and then also the sub out 1/8".

Pre/post means routing things pre or post fader. If you have something sent to one of the outputs at pre-fader, then it'll stay the same even if you change the levels on the individual channel (fader, not the trim level). Handy if you wanted to output specific channels (say a mic source on a stand to somebody daisy chaining) to the main outs. Never used it like that though!
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #251 on: May 03, 2023, 05:53:34 PM »
Was typing this as hoserama replied..

You'll want to check/setup the current headphone routing matrix, although one should be set by default. The headphone matrix determines what is routed to each headphone channel.  Refer to page 108 in the manual.

On the headphone routing matrix screen you can select any combination of each individual recording channel, the main Left/Right bus channels, the Main-out bus channels, and the Sub-out bus channels. Each input to the routing matrix can feed the left headphone output, right headphone output, both, or neither.  That determination is made by highlighting the little check boxes on the headphone monitor routing screen.
 
I think the default setting is just main L > headphone Left out (postfader), and main R > headphone Right out (postfader).. which I think sends all odd channels > left and all even channels > right.. (ch1 > Left, ch2 > Right, etc.).  That should work for most things and is always post-fader.


Other than that it can get kind of confusing.  Apologies if what follows is too much information.  It took me a while to figure out.

You will need to alter the default routing if you:  1) don't have all left channels into odd and right channels into even numbered inputs, 2) want to route a channel to both outputs (effectively panned center), 3) want to eliminate certain channels from headphone monitoring, or 4) want to monitor a Mid/Side pair as decoded Left/Right stereo, which is being or has been recorded as raw Mid and Side channels.

If you want to do any of those things you'll need to deselect Main L/R in the routing matrix and instead route each channel individually, and this is where Pre and Post-fader applies, referring to whether the signal from that channel is tapped before or after the mixer level controls.  If set to Pre-fader, there is no level control for that channel via the mixer fader of that channel to the headphone output (its output level determined solely by input trim and headphone volume knob).  If set to post-fader the mixer fader does adjust level (in combination with input trim and volume knob). Identical functionality to straight default Left/Right bus routing is achieved by routing channel 1 > post fader left, channel 2> post fader right etc. 

So as to not complicate things too much here, more on Mid/Side in another post if you need to do that, which requires pre-fader routing.

Note that you can have multiple headphone routing setups saved and switch between them. This is important to be aware of even if you only use one of them, because if you find something weird going on routing-wise, it might be that a different routing setup was selected by accident.  Best to confirm "Setting 1" at the bottom of the headphone routing screen when going in there to check on things.


« Last Edit: May 03, 2023, 05:58:27 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #252 on: May 03, 2023, 05:59:07 PM »
Note that the recorder also features routing matrices for the main-output and for sub-output in addition to the headphone output, and each can be set differently. The screens look and work the same way, except they do not have the option of saving and switching between multiple setups. The sub-out 3.5mm TRS can drive an additional pair of headphones, but since it doesn't have a dedicated headphone volume knob, in order to control the volume of that headphone pair you'll need to select and adjust the sub-out master fader on its menu screen.


An easy way to solo monitor a single channel is by pressing the PFL button for that channel on the front face of the recorder.  That will solo that channel in the headphones.  I so rarely monitor while recording that I'm not sure if the functionality of the PFL button is the same when recording and during playback [edit- it is not, see note below]. When monitoring during playback it solos that channel yet retains Left/Right routing.  [edit- that remains the case while recording, but the following does not..] You can PFL solo additional channels at the same time by also pressing their PFL buttons and those will be solo'd in combination with the first, also retaining their Left/Right routing - in other words if you were to PFL both channels of a stereo pair, and the routing is set appropriately, the PFL monitoring of that pair will be in stereo.

[Edit- functionality of the PFL button for a channel during recording acts differently from its functionality during playback in essentially two ways:
1) Pressing an additional PFL channel button during recording deselects the previously selected channel and shifts the solo headphone monitoring to the newly selected channel.  Doing the same during playback additionally solos the new channel along with the original one.  You can PFL solo all channels simultaneously during playback if you like, but only a single channel at a time while recording, which makes sense.
2) Pressing the PLF during recording brings up an display/control screen for that specific channel. Doing the same during playback does not change the screen.]
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 09:51:29 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline RyanJ

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #253 on: May 04, 2023, 10:47:41 AM »
An easy way to solo monitor a single channel is by pressing the PFL button for that channel on the front face of the recorder.  That will solo that channel in the headphones.  I so rarely monitor while recording that I'm not sure if the functionality of the PFL button is the same when recording and during playback (I usually only monitor while recording if chasing down a problem), but when doing so during playback it solos that channel yet retains Left/Right routing.  You can PFL solo additional channels at the same time by also pressing their PFL buttons and those will be solo'd in combination with the first, also retaining their Left/Right routing - in other words if you were to PFL both channels of a stereo pair, and the routing is set appropriately, the PFL monitoring of that pair will be in stereo).

That seems a lot easier than trying to switch through in the monitor settings. All I want to do is swap through them quickly. I use the 1/4” headphone Jack anyways. Was also looking to know if I select a channel that is locked with another, I’d get the stereo sound through the phones.

Nice thing with switching in the headphone monitor setting is being able to monitor two feeds at once in separate channels.
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http://www.ryanjonik.com
Mics: Schoeps MK4s, AT853 (4.7k mod)
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Recorders: M10, A10, Zoom F8n, Marantz PMD-620 (Concert Mod), TCD-D8
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #254 on: May 11, 2023, 09:55:55 AM »
Ryan, just a heads up- I checked PFL functionality while recording last night and found slightly different functionality during recording verses playback. See the edits to my previous post above for details.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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