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Author Topic: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??  (Read 2836 times)

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Offline widu99

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Dear all

I am looking to upgrade from my good old CoreSound Binaurals to the next level and I am thinking about buying Neumann KM 184 mics recording to a Sony PCM-M10.

The missing part is the battery box ... where to get a good one to connect the mics to the Sony?

Cheers
-widu

Offline fireonshakedwnstreet

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2023, 01:10:12 PM »
You would need an external phantom power source like the Denecke PS-2 or a preamp that provides 48 volt phantom power to power the mics. Then you can connect to the M10.
Mics: AT 3031; AT 853Rx (c, o); Samson C02; Studio Projects C4 (c, o, h); Nak 300/Tascam PE-125/JVC M510 (cp-1, cp-2, cp-3, JVC M510 superdirectional caps)
Recorders: Tascam DR-680 MkII; Tascam DR-70D
Pres: Edirol UA-5 (Oade PMod & WMod); Marantz PMD661 (OCM); Marantz PMD620 (Oade WMod); Naiant MidBox; Shure FP11 (x2)
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Offline Popmarter

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2023, 09:22:11 AM »
Just buy a Zoom F3 and skip the part inbetween
Recorders: Zoom F3; SD MixPre 3 II; Sony A10; Edirol R44; Sony M10; Sony WM-D6; iRiver IHP-120; Sharp MD-MT20; Sharp MD-MT190
Microphones: Schoeps MK41; Nevaton MC59/S (cards); Milab VM-44 Links (cards), AT853 7.4mod (cards); AT831 (cards); Nakamichi CM300 (all CP's); Soundman OKM II Rock Studios
Preamps: Beyerdynamic MV100; JK Laboratories DVC-X-17b; Naiant IPA; Nakamichi MX-100 modded for 9v battery use ; Baby Nbox

Offline DSatz

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2023, 06:27:59 PM »
It's not so easy to connect balanced, professional, phantom-powered studio microphones to the input of a consumer recorder like the M 10. You have four issues all at once:

(1) providing 48-Volt phantom power to the microphones;
(2) removing the residue of the ~48 Volts DC from the microphones' signals (the recorder's inputs can't handle it);
(3) unbalancing those signals (the M 10 has unbalanced inputs, and there's no one adapter that works optimally or even correctly with all balanced microphones);
(4) making sure that the signals don't overload the input stage of your recorder. (Professional condenser microphones, including those Neumanns, generally have much higher output levels than the consumer microphones that the M 10 was built to work with, and nearly all recorders have input circuits that come before the rec level controls, so that even if your meters never go above -12 the input circuit can still be distorting like crazy.)

There are technical solutions for each of those four problems, but by far the simplest approach is to use an outboard mike preamp that has 48-Volt phantom powering built in, and unbalanced, consumer-level outputs which you can connect to the aux (line) inputs of the M 10.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 10:00:25 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline morst

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2023, 08:25:23 PM »
by far the simplest approach is to use an outboard mike preamp that has 48-Volt phantom powering built in, and unbalanced, consumer-level outputs which you can connect to the aux (line) inputs of the M 10.

Totally agree.
I have had very good results with the Shure FP24 aka the Sound Devices MixPre (not to be confused with the new MixPre-# series of recorders) and my old favorite, the BeyerDynamic MV100.
Both units have XLR inputs.
The Shure/SD has balanced XLR and unbalanced 1/8" outputs, the Beyer has unbalanced RCA and 1/8" outputs.

Here is the user manual for the Beyer MV100
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=103430.msg1379146#msg1379146

Example of the Beyer with Neumann KM140 set, very similar to KM184.
https://archive.org/details/VictorKrummenacher2015-05-01


edit: thinking about it, the next issue becomes powering this new box.
The Shure/SD takes a pair of AAs, and can also run externally using standard 5v USB power packs.
The Beyer is a bit more difficult, running nearly 5 hours on a pair of 9V cells, or calling for a 24v DC supply, with low power indicator coming on at or below 14 Volts!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2023, 08:31:58 PM by morst »
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Online unidentified

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2023, 10:47:04 PM »
Just buy a Zoom F3 and skip the part inbetween

 :clapping:

Offline morst

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2023, 11:12:54 PM »
Just buy a Zoom F3 and skip the part inbetween

 :clapping:
How long does the F3 last on a set of AA's?
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2023, 11:35:17 PM »
Depends on what AAs, I generally use 2400 mAh NiMH rechargeables and would get 3 hours or better, but with lithiums you'll get longer.  I took to using a small external USB 5 V source.  Still a smaller rig.

Online unidentified

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2023, 02:05:34 PM »
I also took to using a small external USB 5 V source with my F3.  No worries about running out of juice, still compact. 

Offline Popmarter

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2023, 09:25:47 AM »
I also took to using a small external USB 5 V source with my F3.  No worries about running out of juice, still compact.

Interesting, what kinda model?
Recorders: Zoom F3; SD MixPre 3 II; Sony A10; Edirol R44; Sony M10; Sony WM-D6; iRiver IHP-120; Sharp MD-MT20; Sharp MD-MT190
Microphones: Schoeps MK41; Nevaton MC59/S (cards); Milab VM-44 Links (cards), AT853 7.4mod (cards); AT831 (cards); Nakamichi CM300 (all CP's); Soundman OKM II Rock Studios
Preamps: Beyerdynamic MV100; JK Laboratories DVC-X-17b; Naiant IPA; Nakamichi MX-100 modded for 9v battery use ; Baby Nbox

Offline Chanher

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Re: Upgrade from CoreSoundBinaurals to Neumann KM 184: Battery Box??
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2023, 01:10:58 PM »
I'm gonna go ahead and recommend the F3 as well. I've done a handful of shows now with it and for me it's a bit of a game changer. Your money is definitely better spent on your mics and Neumann KM184's are a great choice. I think we sometimes forget that the cardioid polar pattern is probably the most flexible polar pattern and you can make great recording after great recording regardless of the situation.

My tests with my F3 indicate just over 3 hours with standard Amazon rechargeable AA's. I've read people are getting just over 3.5 hours with the higher capacity Eneloop (?) rechargeable AA's. I haven't tried Lithium's but yes, they should get more than the rechargeable options.

I grabbed this 2 pack of portable cell chargers off Amazon and I've recorded 5+ hours without even losing a single light on the charge indicator. They are tiny. I also grabbed a right angle usb C to usb A cable to go with these.
https://tinyurl.com/yvp7jjnz

If you are set on KM184's, using an M10 as your recorder doesn't make sense unless you want the flexibility of stealth recording with it. Then, as everyone has mentioned, you would need an external preamp with phantom power like a Shure Fp24, Sound Devices Mixpre D or MP-2 to run in between your mics and the M10. There are plenty of external preamps that supply 48v out there, others can chime in.

There are plenty of older (and now cheap) all-in-one recorer/preamps from Tascam, Marantz, and Zoom. Those would sound just fine with KM184's in my opinion. Sound Devices and the newer Zoom models are really nice all-in-one boxes and if you have the money you can't go wrong with those.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2023, 12:28:36 PM by Chanher »
Line Audio CM4
AT853Rx (c,h) > AT8533x
Studio Projects C4 (c,o)

Sound Devices MP-2 (2)
bm2p+ Edirol UA-5

Zoom F3
Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661
Tascam DR-70D
Iriver

 

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