Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Rig review  (Read 2748 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CamoPantsAndTieDye

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Rig review
« on: February 26, 2024, 02:00:08 PM »
Hi Tapers,

I’m new around here but not new to forum communities and this looks like a great one.

I am looking to put together a rig for taping some concerts in medium venues both outdoor (amphiteaters) and indoor. After a lot of research I think I nailed down a couple pieces but looking for some guidance on power for the Mics.

Right now, I am planning on this setup:
 SP-CMC-4U (low sensitivity) > Power supply > Sony PCM-A10.

Here are my questions:
1.   Do I need a power supply for concerts? based on what I have read it would be good or at least it won’t hurt.
2.   If I need one, do I want a 9v or 12v?
3.   Do I need/want an adjustable bass roll off? – the only downside seems like larger size.

I’m currently looking at the below modules. I am open to others, but here are the basic differences I see in them:

1.   SP-SPSB-10
     a.   ‘Small’ 12v power supply.
2.   SP-SPSB-1
     a.   ‘Large’ 9v power supply, with bass roll off.
3.   SP-SPSB-11
     a.   ‘Large’ 12v power supply, with bass roll off.
     a.   ‘small’ 9v power supply.

Any critiques of the setup are welcome.

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (43)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4729
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: Rig review
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2024, 11:25:32 PM »

Get the battery box you will regret it later if you don't. It's a small price to pay to get the performance the mics are capable of. Plug in power from the recorder may not be enough in some/a lot of situations.

I have the 12V SB10 that I use with CA11s. It's half the size of the A10. I wouldn't get a box with bass rolloff but that's just my preference. I do EQ later instead of baking it in to my recording. If I was using small omnis right next to some huge subs I would want it but otherwise no.
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline rocksuitcase

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8396
  • Gender: Male
    • RockSuitcase: stage photography
Re: Rig review
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2024, 09:13:57 AM »
I'm going to agree with goodcooker about no need for bass roll off in most situations. If what you record has very loud bass, maybe so. The caveat for me is I do not use battery boxes these days and am not familiar with this brand.
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI x2; Sony PCM-M10

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15820
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: Rig review
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2024, 12:56:57 PM »
Mostly just further confirming what the other guys already said.

Yes to a battery box. Choice of 9v or 12v for those mics I can't comment on, but you can trust goodcooker's experience and advice.

A few comments on using bass roll-off in a battery box. None for me. I prefer to set levels as needed to capture the full frequency range, then EQ afterward as necessary. Each situation is somewhat different and that approach maximizes my chances of ending up with the full and well balanced sound I'm after. When adjusting the response of the recording afterward I don't typically default to using a high-pass filter anyway as it's something of a brute-force blunt tool.  It has its place, but usually in individual channels to be mixed and not so much a stereo mix itself or a two channel stereo pair used directly on its own.  Instead, adjusting the EQ curve to suit the content while listening provides a superior end result..   But that does require decent monitoring you can trust, or at least knowing how to interpret what you are hearing from monitoring you've leaned how not to trust without compensating for its deficiencies.

In contrast, the application of high-pass filtering afterward can be done without needing as much careful subjective listening as more subtle EQing, and is a popular choice for a lot of tapers.

Taking that one step farther, using bass roll-off in the battery box could be the right choice for someone interested in minimizing all work done afterward as much as possible.  But in that case, determining if the bass roll-off is doing what you want to your satisfaction is going to be a subjective personal determination, based on listening to those specific mics through the specific battery box filtering in question, of the typical content you record..

tl;dr- The low-frequency response will be partly affected by the pickup pattern of the microphones - omnis tend to have a flatter and deeper bass response than directional mics - and by what the sound is like in the venue and your recording position, but will also be effected by other characteristics of the specific microphones in combination with the specifics of the roll-off filter.  That's because in a battery box the filtering is passive.  Interaction between the mics and roll-off filter together effect the low-frequency response through the filter. On the battery box side of things that includes the r/c values used in the high-pass filter. On the microphone side it includes the impedance of the mics in addition to their inherent low frequency response.  And of course on top of all that is the question of how bassy the sound was at the recording position to begin with.

The decision on where and how to mange low-frequency response revolves around this trade off between easy convenience and more fine-tuned control.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2024, 01:04:58 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline fanofjam

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 563
Re: Rig review
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2024, 06:08:59 PM »
^^ ...and you won't be any different than any of the rest of us if you spend all night messing around with your recording to get it juuuuuuust right...only to wake up in the morning and give it a listen and absolute HATE what you ended up with.  None of us that have been doing this for years and years can figure out what that's all about, but it constantly happens.   :shrug:

Incidentally, it might go without saying, but worth repeating to always work from a copy of your base recording for obvious reasons.  (Some people call that their master, others call their final EQ'ed recording their master.)

Offline pillowman

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
Re: Rig review
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2024, 10:52:26 AM »
no question SP-SPSB-20
best for the  >:D job
RECORDERS: Sony PCM-A10 / 3x Sony PCM-M10 / TASCAM DR-2d / Sony NH 600 / Sharp MD-MT180(H) / Sony MZ-R35
MICS: LINE AUDIO CM3, AT853c, ATU853c, hc  (4.7k mod) / Sony ECM-717 / 3x Sennheiser ME104
BBox's: Denecke PS-2 / SP-SPSB-9 / SP-SPSB-10 / SP-SPSB-20 / Soundman A3

trading page:

Offline CamoPantsAndTieDye

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Rig review
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2024, 12:09:12 PM »
Thanks for the all the helpful info!

Dang that key fob unit is sweeeeeet!


RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.06 seconds with 30 queries.
© 2002-2024
Powered by SMF