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Author Topic: Low End Blowout  (Read 11008 times)

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Offline lmgbtapes

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2024, 11:35:41 AM »
I primarily record a rock band healy on stage and I always hack the extreme low end off my stage capture. Sometimes I'm recording directly on top of the sub with my CA-14 omnis.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2024, 12:14:51 PM »
peak at -18 instead of 0
this. Sphere went +12dB at points
^
That!

Best to record it clean if you can, and adjust it however necessary afterward.

The bottom is the most difficult thing to get just right IMO.  Partly because it's hard to really monitor correctly, but also because its so often the most exaggerated and frequently abused part of live PA sound. I get why, but damn. Walk past the SBD and take a look at the spectral analyzer - you're very likely to see a huge hump down low rather than an overall flattish curve where the subs transition into low end from the main PA.  Its tactile, man!

It's super obvious and most egregious to me with PA amplified string bands. Really ridiculous when the open low E of the upright bass sounds like that string is 2" in diameter or something, an entirely different instrument than the higher register of the same instrument.  Always somewhat amazes me that can usually be corrected quite nicely afterward as long as it was recorded cleanly with sufficient headroom.
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Offline EmRR

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2024, 12:17:44 PM »
The watts/$ ratio got so much more attractive than it once was and we're still all paying for it!
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2024, 12:31:44 PM »
And it's become integrated as part of "the sound" of some genres.

I do seem to value really good extended and rich yet clean low end on recordings more and more as I get older.  I think whether the low end correction we end up making is a high-pass hack off or a more nuanced sculpting, and more subtly, the shape of that corrective curve, is strongly tied to how accurate the low end of the monitoring happens to be when making the decision.  It's tough to get just right, but is a big part of the magical juju of live music.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2024, 01:55:00 PM »
It's super obvious and most egregious to me with PA amplified string bands. Really ridiculous when the open low E of the upright bass sounds like that string is 2" in diameter or something, an entirely different instrument than the higher register of the same instrument.

That always bugs me too. Never really understood why it's done that way, makes for an annoyingly inconsistent experience imo

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2024, 02:52:14 PM »
It's super obvious and most egregious to me with PA amplified string bands. Really ridiculous when the open low E of the upright bass sounds like that string is 2" in diameter or something, an entirely different instrument than the higher register of the same instrument.

That always bugs me too. Never really understood why it's done that way, makes for an annoyingly inconsistent experience imo
Count me in on this pet peeve. As a former FOH guy, I JUST do not get why they allow the upright to be so "loose". It surely isn't that difficult to place the mic properly and ensure the 20-60 Hz band is EQ'd properly for the upright.
We did an entire Greyfox festival with exact same gear all day and the bands which used upright bass all came out very boomy, too boomy for the PA and gear we had.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2024, 03:10:42 PM »
^ Sure, although the flip side is that it always amazes me how the good FOH sound guys are capable of hearing so clearly and making the correct mix choices at high SPL levels.  I feel I can make good decisions at lower levels back at the shack, but its really difficult for me to make that kind of necessary nuanced discernment during the show. Granted I'm wearing hearing protection at those high SPL shows, if occasionally pulling the plugs out to compare.  But either way, at high levels the details become hard for me to hear.  Part of the magic of listening to a good recording after being present at the show is gaining that ability to hear all those little details and balances I was unable to really discern live.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2024, 04:36:09 PM »
^ Part of that is just learning how to hear through the mud. There are shows where I can make tiny (tenth of a db) changes on a fader and hear the difference. There are others where I need to make massive adjustments to hear the slightest change. Totally room dependent, and sometimes your mix just works better or worse in a certain room for whatever reason

Offline mterry

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2024, 05:41:02 PM »
Thanks everyone. I did open up the mini-me and change the factory gain settings POST phish in Nashville. At phish I was getting the yellow a few times in the first set, but nothing that was out of the norm. But during BOAF, Mike Just sent this bomb and I looked down. I wasn't clipping red on the MME, but it was just SOLID yellow with no fluctuation for like 15 seconds and I just remember thinking....."oh shit".  :banging head:

I think I was running gain around 10 o'clock on the dials, but can't remember off the top of my head. Hopefully with the adjustment on the MME and just running a little lower I should be good.
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Offline morst

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2024, 06:55:35 PM »
Thanks everyone. I did open up the mini-me and change the factory gain settings POST phish in Nashville. At phish I was getting the yellow a few times in the first set, but nothing that was out of the norm. But during BOAF, Mike Just sent this bomb and I looked down. I wasn't clipping red on the MME, but it was just SOLID yellow with no fluctuation for like 15 seconds and I just remember thinking....."oh shit". banging

I think I was running gain around 10 o'clock on the dials, but can't remember off the top of my head. Hopefully with the adjustment on the MME and just running a little lower I should be good.


how did the waveform look on the recording from the solid yellow?
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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2024, 07:51:33 PM »
Thanks everyone. I did open up the mini-me and change the factory gain settings POST phish in Nashville. At phish I was getting the yellow a few times in the first set, but nothing that was out of the norm. But during BOAF, Mike Just sent this bomb and I looked down. I wasn't clipping red on the MME, but it was just SOLID yellow with no fluctuation for like 15 seconds and I just remember thinking....."oh shit".  :banging head:

I think I was running gain around 10 o'clock on the dials, but can't remember off the top of my head. Hopefully with the adjustment on the MME and just running a little lower I should be good.

Did you engage the SL soft-knee?
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Offline mterry

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2024, 09:25:52 PM »
Thanks everyone. I did open up the mini-me and change the factory gain settings POST phish in Nashville. At phish I was getting the yellow a few times in the first set, but nothing that was out of the norm. But during BOAF, Mike Just sent this bomb and I looked down. I wasn't clipping red on the MME, but it was just SOLID yellow with no fluctuation for like 15 seconds and I just remember thinking....."oh shit". banging

I think I was running gain around 10 o'clock on the dials, but can't remember off the top of my head. Hopefully with the adjustment on the MME and just running a little lower I should be good.


how did the waveform look on the recording from the solid yellow?

dreadful.
"That's deplorable, unfathomable, improbable!"

"Then we played Davidson, and they wore us out. Davidson controlled us - other than Kentucky - as well as any team all year long"
- Bill Self on PTI (2/28/11)

DPA 2012 > Apogee Mini-Me > Tascam DR-100mkIII

Offline mterry

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2024, 09:26:47 PM »
Thanks everyone. I did open up the mini-me and change the factory gain settings POST phish in Nashville. At phish I was getting the yellow a few times in the first set, but nothing that was out of the norm. But during BOAF, Mike Just sent this bomb and I looked down. I wasn't clipping red on the MME, but it was just SOLID yellow with no fluctuation for like 15 seconds and I just remember thinking....."oh shit".  :banging head:

I think I was running gain around 10 o'clock on the dials, but can't remember off the top of my head. Hopefully with the adjustment on the MME and just running a little lower I should be good.

Did you engage the SL soft-knee?
Moving forward, if running FOB I will. I taped SCI in July last year with zero issues.
"That's deplorable, unfathomable, improbable!"

"Then we played Davidson, and they wore us out. Davidson controlled us - other than Kentucky - as well as any team all year long"
- Bill Self on PTI (2/28/11)

DPA 2012 > Apogee Mini-Me > Tascam DR-100mkIII

Offline bonghitwillie

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2024, 08:56:59 PM »
i always under record levels. 32 bit float might be the way to go.

Offline mterry

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Re: Low End Blowout
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2024, 02:32:11 PM »
i always under record levels. 32 bit float might be the way to go.

Yeah, running hot used to work. But with so many bands throwing these long low end frequencies, especially if I'm running up front, it can get a little.......dicey.

"That's deplorable, unfathomable, improbable!"

"Then we played Davidson, and they wore us out. Davidson controlled us - other than Kentucky - as well as any team all year long"
- Bill Self on PTI (2/28/11)

DPA 2012 > Apogee Mini-Me > Tascam DR-100mkIII

 

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