Topic: Taping my first festival

[Pieteker]

Hi,

I'll be taping my first festival this summer at Beach Festival, Nieuwpoort in Belgium. I plan to use my AT-853s with windscreens to capture some of the acts on the bill. I was wondering if you could share any tips or experiences on getting a good recording, such as ideal location, mic placement, and so on.

Looking forward to your insights!

Thanks,
Pieter

[u2_fly_2]

If possible try to locate yourself close to the soundboard area...and get the mics high up...on a hat or something similar...and try to avoid talkers and screamers if possible...and don´t drink too much unless you know you will have a planned break between the sets...have fun and good luck!

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I like to walk around the best I can to find the "sweet spot" for the sound during an opening band.

Depending on the placement of the soundboard I like to set up directly BEHIND the soundboard if it's close enough to still have decent sound back there. The board area will provide a buffer to talkers in front of you, thus reducing chatter on your recording. I prefer a slightly more distant recording over having people talking near me. Obviously if the soundboard has a covering over it, then it will block the sound, so then no go.

[nulldogmas]

AT-853s with card or omni caps?

[Pieteker]

AT-853s with card or omni caps?

Card.

[Pieteker]

And what about wind noise?
Do I have to put a dead rat over my foam windscreens?

[admkrk]

There is no such thing as too much wind protection outdoors.

[daspyknows]

If possible try to locate yourself close to the soundboard area...and get the mics high up...on a hat or something similar...and try to avoid talkers and screamers if possible...and don´t drink too much unless you know you will have a planned break between the sets...have fun and good luck!

Don't drink to much is the best advice.  Having done festivals in Belgium (Rock Werchter, Cactus and Live /s Live) make sure you bring/sneak in bottled water since aside from Rock Werchter they do not make water easily available and prefer you buy beer.  Where and when is festival?

[fanofjam]

Don't drink to much is the best advice.

YMMV.  I'm a happy drunk, so I have the most fun at shows when I've had too much to drink.  LOL.  Since I'm under random testing for work I can't do weed...so unbridled drinking is one of the reasons I love festivals.  I don't have to worry about moderation and getting home afterwards, or dealing with my wife squawking that I drank too much at the show...she doesn't mind me drinking, it's of course all about getting home safely and not endangering others.  I never have a problem sneaking in my brown liquor into the festy grounds.  And the only challenge is getting my stuff packed after the music stops and getting back to camp without tripping over anything.  I also have the collateral advantage of being drunk enough to sleep fairly soundly that night, which I rarely do at a music festival.  LOL.  Yeah I know it's not a good sleep when you're juiced up, but its sleep nevertheless.

I'll never forget that one time that I should NEVER have gotten behind the wheel after a show and coming home from the venue (not a festival).  It was around 2am on either Friday or Saturday night and I was almost home.  I peaked a hill and off in the distance like a half mile down the road I saw a random sobriety check point.  It was only like 3 or 4 miles short of home.  I've never been so panic stricken in my life, but somehow or another grace was shining down on me because I got waved through with only a driver license check.  Never again.

Anyway, back to festy drinking...the biggest thing for me is to choose which night I'm gonna go big...usually Saturday night because Sunday music is usually kind of mellow.  It gives me all day Sunday to recover for the drive back home either late Sunday or Monday morning.  I don't like going big on Thursday or Friday and feeling like shit the next day...which is usually one of the best festival days, which is almost always Friday or Saturday.

[AbbyTaper]

I took the "don't drink too much" as a warning so that you didn't have to pee all the time.  Getting old sucks! 

[fanofjam]

I took the "don't drink too much" as a warning so that you didn't have to pee all the time.  Getting old sucks! 

Ugh.  So true.  My diatribe above about drinking does indeed need to include that I only attend open taping festivals where I can fly my mics on a stand and forget about them. 

[daspyknows]

I took the "don't drink too much" as a warning so that you didn't have to pee all the time.  Getting old sucks! 

That was my point.  I either drink or tape for that reason.  Given I have been to multiple festivals and never have seen a mic stand I was assuming stealth. 

[fanofjam]

Given I have been to multiple festivals and never have seen a mic stand I was assuming stealth.

I hear that.  In the year that I've been working in Pismo Beach, I haven't seen any mic stands either.  We've talked about it before, but the west coast definitely has a different taper vibe than the east coast.

Back home in Virginia, the golden age seems to be in the rear-view, but there are still some small fests out east that are taper friendly.  Even though it's been a few years since I was last able to attend, there's one festival that I'm still invited to open record every year where the organizer gives me and a few other established tapers a free ticket to open tape with the only provision that I post.  We also get SBD access at this fest.  As Carl Spackler says...'so I've got that going for me'.

[daspyknows]

I just run    at festivals.  Don't even own a stand.  Thus not wanting to drink and need to pee.

[Pieteker]

Here's an aerial view of the festival site. Where do you think I should position myself to get a good recording?

https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZStqMZ8OokYMIgkEQ5eLCHsacOmVmus99V

[grawk]

make a triangle between the primary speakers left and right where you’re between 1 and 1.5x the distance between the speakers from the midpoint between them.

[bonghitwillie]

get close to a pa stack, but stay away from bass bins. gaff tape your mics to something ridgid close to the sound.

[breakonthru]

Here's an aerial view of the festival site. Where do you think I should position myself to get a good recording?

https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZStqMZ8OokYMIgkEQ5eLCHsacOmVmus99V

if you are running 4060s with your new deity get where it is somewhat loud, like in front of one side of the PA. since they are omni you want to get to a plsce where the music is loud and the talkers dont want to talk there

you still might meet the heroic people with the superhuman ability to talk over a PA at full volume, they do exist, sadly

[Pieteker]

I'm reaching out to see which location you prefer for taping at an outdoor festival. Here are the options:

- Center Stage: 8-10 meters (24-30 feet) back from the stage center.

- In Front of the Speaker Stacks: About 3 meters (10 feet) in front of the Left or Right speaker stacks.

Looking forward to hear your take on this!

[grawk]

100% center stage 24-30 ft back, and depending on venue size, I'd decide which mics to use.

[rocksuitcase]

A few factors to consider whether stack or "stereo" taping outdoors.
1] Is the mix in stereo? if so, that leads toward center stage
2] Is the audience likely to be more or less loud at either spot? Stack taping generally reduces the nearby talkers, but it is situational for sure.
3] What type of blocking will you have to do at either position? If the center spot includes a bicycle barricade behind or in front of you, better protection, less blocking etc.
4] Is the band or fest "taper friendly". Makes a difference in how the crew and crowd will treat you, of course.

Have a great time!   

[Gutbucket]

Was typing this while Rock posted, conveying much the same idea.

The ideal recording position is the best sounding spot you can successfully manage to record from without stressing out.

Assess and adapt. The specific answer varies with each situation. Depends on the fest. Sometimes you can get a good idea of the best spot in advance- from what you see when first walking in, from listening to the background music through the PA before the show starts, from having been at that venue for similar past shows, from checking photos of the venue beforehand, from asking other tapers.  Given the two specific choices you mention with no other info, I'd setup next to Grawk.. unless there's a potential problem with recording from there that makes stack taping off to the side the better option, such as a super-unruly crowd, crazy moshing going down there, or any number of other things.

The fundamental constraint is being able to successfully record. Getting the best sound is dependent on that. But focusing on the sound alone, my 1st acoustic preference is to be centered and positioned at the forward-most edge of the 'sweet spot'.  The sweet spot being wherever the sound is clearest and most involving, with good balance.  That's frequently 20-30' back in the center, but it might be a further, it might be right up at the stage-lip/rail, or it might be off to one side in line with one PA stack if the sound there is clearer from a position closer to the stage than it is from an centered sweet spot that is too distant.  Also, there may be more than one sweet spot.  Sometimes the forward edge of the typical centered sweetspot is some distance back, and the sound gets muffled and less-clear forward of that.. until you get right up to the stage-lip or rail where fill speakers and the direct on-stage sources create another sweet spot.. which might be way better still.. or not.

If you get the chance during the performance, move around and listen with a critical ear to assess the situation at various positions. Mentally take note of the good potential recording spots, even if you're unable to act on that at present.  Doing that will better prepare you for future recording, even if its at an entirety different venue.

Your preference for the sound you like may differ from other tapers.  Maybe you crave a very dynamic and super lively up-front sound, or maybe you prefer a more evenly mixed but less dynamic sound from a bit further back where things gel more.

I'm now older, and the open rig I currently run is somewhat larger, but I used to run a rig I specifically designed for use right up front/center in the crazy heart of things, where the sound is most rich and impactful and the most enthusiastic audience packs in. This was back when most open rigs were bigger, heavier and bulkier. The rig was small and light enough that I could just grab the stand with small recording bag attached to it and bug out of there if necessary, or easily pick it up and shift over, forward or back while recording as necessary.

[wehideandseek]

Ideal = bring two rigs. (sorry for the obvious response, no snark intended)

[goodcooker]

If it's a big festival stage and the line arrays are hung high and wide you may want to move farther back if in the center.

If you imagine an equilateral triangle and the base of the triangle is the stage width (guess @ 80ft a typical large festival stage width) and use the calculator to determine the height of the triangle (the point of the triangle opposite the stage in the center) that point is 69.3 feet away. I'd go a little closer than that maybe 50 feet but I'd get in the spot and use my ears to determine the best sounding place.

If it's a madhouse I would get in line with a stack up close and wear earplugs.

Her's a link to the calculator to get height of the triangle based on the A length of one side of an equilateral triangle - https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/equilateral-triangle

[breakonthru]

Ideal = bring two rigs. (sorry for the obvious response, no snark intended)

This. When I’m at shows where I know there’s no other tapers I always try to bring a b-rig to hand off to somebody. Lesser spec’d gear in a better spot (which often isn’t determined by location relative to the PA at all, but more so by the people around you) wins everytime

[Pieteker]

Great advice. Thanks everyone!

[Pieteker]

A few factors to consider whether stack or "stereo" taping outdoors.
1] Is the mix in stereo? if so, that leads toward center stage
2] Is the audience likely to be more or less loud at either spot? Stack taping generally reduces the nearby talkers, but it is situational for sure.
3] What type of blocking will you have to do at either position? If the center spot includes a bicycle barricade behind or in front of you, better protection, less blocking etc.
4] Is the band or fest "taper friendly". Makes a difference in how the crew and crowd will treat you, of course.

Have a great time!   

This is an image of the festival site: https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZStqMZ8OokYMIgkEQ5eLCHsacOmVmus99V

[jefflester]

Getting a sense of deja vu here...
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=204987.0;all

[Gutbucket]

Center rail from stage to soundboard splits the audience.  I don't really like it when they do that but it does offer good blocking protection for setting up against it, as long as the sound and light guys at the board don't mind your stand in their line of sight.. or professional video positioned back there, which is a bigger deal breaker.  Even then, you might be able to get away with running low at or just above head height.

I'd guess the best sounding centered position would be either all the way up front at the front-rail/center-rail junction if the front fill speakers are good, or about halfway back. Equilateral triangle point with the PA is probably about 3/4 of the way back to the board.

Safest bet for managing audience (both chatter and wildness) would be to setup all the way in back directly in front of the soundboard, and run the mic stand up as high as possible to get the mics up above the localized chatter.  12' up or more if you can.  You are far more likely to get away with going high like that back there.  The sound should be well balanced there but less impactful and in-your-face than upfront.  That will be the easiest place to open tape for a full festival day.  Although the audience back there will often be more chatty and less into the music than closer to the front.

Best non-centered closer stack-tape position is likely to be in-line with the left PA (stage right) up at the rail of what appears to be a front VIP section - if this fest is setup the same way as the one pictured.  Again, the rail helps block.

[Gutbucket]

Getting a sense of deja vu here...
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=204987.0;all

Hmm, yeah. Pieteker we're happy to help, but duplicate threads are frowned upon, and for good reason.  Wasted duplicate effort.  Best to keep it all together.  If splitting off to a different thread, post a link to the original. Thanks.

[Pieteker]

Sorry! Won’t happen again.

[daspyknows]

I do lots of festivals (stealth) and I go dead center.  usually half way to two thirds back dead center unless it's crowded and then parking dead center right in front of soundboard is easier and less issue with crowd.

[Top Hat]

ROH Using Guns on axis and Cards DIN as insurance if there is windy conditions. I know it is a bit of a stretch but there is a nice dead spot in front of you and you are centered. Another options would be to run right next to that center rail. atleast you have a dead zone on one side of you.

[Pieteker]

I’m thrilled to share two of my recordings from the festival with you all. Take a listen and let me know which one you like best!
Check them out here: https://wetransfer.com/downloads/4616b6c121110bd17d375a808aa742c620240721225217/4a9b2c

[AbbyTaper]

I’m thrilled to share two of my recordings from the festival with you all. Take a listen and let me know which one you like best!
Check them out here: https://wetransfer.com/downloads/4616b6c121110bd17d375a808aa742c620240721225217/4a9b2c

Man...I'm shocked.  It's Keane!